Author Topic: 2000 what I've got  (Read 809 times)

Offline Inquisitor Jex

  • Posts: 40
2000 what I've got
« on: April 06, 2015, 06:41:13 PM »
Lords (259pts) +

Grand Master [Shield]
··Magic Items [AB - Runefang, BRB - Talisman of Protection]

+ Heroes (423pts) +

Battle Wizard [Lore of Life, Wizard Level 2]

Battle Wizard [Lore of Fire, Wizard Level 2]
··Magic Items [BRB - Dispel Scroll]

Captain of the Empire [Battle Standard Bearer, Full Plate Armour, Pistol]
··Magic Items [BRB - Enchanted Shield, BRB - Talisman of Endurance]

Warrior Priest [Light Armour, Shield]

+ Core (1078pts) +

Archers [10x Archers]

Halberdiers [Champion, 28x Halberdiers, Musician, Standard Bearer]

Handgunners [10x Handgunners, Musician]
··Champion [Hochland Long Rifle]

Handgunners [10x Handgunners, Musician]
··Champion [Hochland Long Rifle]

Knightly Orders Inner Circle [Champion, 14x Knightly Orders Inner Circle, Lance and Shield, Musician]
··Standard Bearer [AB - Steel Standard]

Swordsmen [Champion, Musician, Standard Bearer, 15x Swordsmen]

+ Special (240pts) +

Great Cannon

Pistoliers [Musician, 5x Pistoliers]
··Champion [Brace of Pistols including a Repeater Pistol]

Grand Master with the Knights.

The BSB and Priest goes with the Halberds. I usually split the archers into 2 groups of 5 with my 1.5, one with the Halberds, the other with the handguns, which did nothing much. I might keep one group of 5 as detachment for the life Wizard and have them stick to one of the melee group, have the other 5 skirmish.

The Fire wizard will hang near one of the handgun squad.

Offline CarolineWellwater

  • Posts: 396
Re: 2000 what I've got
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2015, 12:01:36 AM »
(( Inquisitor Jex,

Just some quick thoughts:

1) For the Grand Master, the Runefang is effective... but expensive.  In its place, I'd suggest the Oger Blade.    You'll be hitting with Strength 6, which pretty much means wounding most stuff on a 2+... with a couple of things on a 3+. 

1-A) The points you save would let you upgrade the Talisman of Protection to the 4+ Ward Save talisman.

2) Life Wizards need to be Level 4.  With so much hinging on them getting Throne of Vines, and a spell to use with it, a Level 2 Life wizard is not terribly effective at all.  (A level 2 wizard will have 1 other spell to use Throne of Vines on.)

2-A) Given your army, I'd suggest a Heavens wizard.  It's base spell, and augments will support your army well, and the Wind Blast can be used to push enemy units out of their charge range.

2-B) I'd suggest putting one of your wizards in the archer bunker.

2-C) Keep in mind that you'll only get 2 or 3 turns of good shooting out Fire... as such, for Fire Spells, I'd suggest going for Fireball and Flaming Sword of RUIN.

3) For your Warrior Priest, I'd upgrade his armor to Heavy Armor.  A 4+ Armor Save is decent against missile fire, and still offers a bit of protection in melee.

3-A)  Remember, you can cast Prayers on 1d6, if you are low on Power Dice.

3-B) Since you have a large block of Inner Circle Knights, it might be useful to mount the Warrior Priest, and have him accompany the Knights.  More on this in a sec.

4) I would suggest keeping the archers as a 10-man squad, over 2-5 man squads.  More wounds, and their skirmish formation will block more LOS behind them, if they are 10-wide over 5-wide.

4-A) I'd also suggest getting a 2nd squad of archers for your other wizard.

4-B) For both squads, I'd suggest getting musicians, if you can find the points.  The +1 to LD to rally, if nothing else, is freaking huge.

5) Handguns are... very poor YMMV.  If you want some static, long range missile troops, and don't want Archers, I'd suggest Crossbows over Handguns.  The additional 6" of Long Range (3" of short), means you will get some targets at short range... and you can reach out and touch someone farther away.

5-A) If you want to keep the Handguns, drop the Champion with Hochland Long Rifle.  It is an expensive upgrade that does not produce.

6) For your Knights, I'd suggest a Champion.  If nothing else, he can buy your character models a turn by accepting a challenge.

6-A) Champs also increase the density of attacks, as well as give you one more attack affected by HATE (should you move the Warrior Priest into the Knights)

6-B) The Steel Standard is good... but expensive in a 2000 point army.  If you want to increase the movement of your knights, over the Steel Standard, get the Banner of Movement.  Has the same general effect... though you do lose the ability to re-roll "1"s.

6-B-1) Re-rolling the "1" though only really matters if the new result beats the result of your other, two, dice.  Swifstride gives you 3k2.  For example, if you roll 3-4-1, and you re-roll the "1", it'll only help if you get a "4" or better... as otherwise, you still only equal the remaining results of 3-4.  Hence the suggestion to save some points, and get the Banner of Swiftness.

7) Your Swordsmen unit is on the smallish side.  At 2000 points, infantry companies should be 20+... 15 just lacks the weight of numbers to make it a decent threat.

Anyway, just some quick thoughts.  If you know who you might be fighting, or have a preference to how you play (defensive, offensive, infantry-heavy, cav-heavy, etc), that'll let me suggest some more focused options as well.  ))

Offline Inquisitor Jex

  • Posts: 40
Re: 2000 what I've got
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2015, 02:22:55 PM »
I face Chaos, mostly, possibly skaven and lizardmen

1-The Grand Master's there to take care of the non Lord/Heroes champions in my opponent's army.  I6 is good for everything short of Chaos lords (who will just kill'him in one go).  And with their Chaos Armour (and my opponent's tendency to roll 6s alot) auto-wounds with no armour saves is damn good.

2-One lvl4 wizard sounds good....but it's one Wizard that can do one thing good (boost one troop group) and then everyone else just snuff it.  furthermore, kill him and goodbye magic phase, or any boost to help counter-spell my opponent....plus fire Wizard's a thematic choice, not to mention just throw down the hurt .

3-I had to drop the Heavy Armour to get to 2000 pts.  It was that or the shield, but I'd figured a +1 armour/6+ Ward is more useful than just a +1 armour than Str4 can negate.  The Halberds are my anvil, so sticking a priest in there would hlep them tough it out more than the knights, who are just there to outflank and crash home.

4-I thought of running a screen of archers, skirmishing and all, but if they run away, they'll no doubt either be in range of the BSB or my general, so a musician is nice, but at the moment, I'll do without- I'll add one during my next expansion.

5-Screw the range I say; I'd rather have my opponent loose 2 points of armour than simply one, meaning most of the time, he saves on 5+ or 6+ rather than 4+ or 5+.  As for the Long rifle, the sniper rule and the fact that they cannot take a look out sir means that I can pop his Wizard or scratch off a wound or two on his Lord before he gets into melee and hand me my ass.

6-I have a champion in all of my groups, including the Knights (It's in square parentheses besides the unit's name).  As I face Chaos, and he must issue a challenge whenever he can, I got to have champs. to allow my heroes to live a bit longer.  As for the Steel standard, I bought it back when I had my 1500 army, as I'd rather pay for it now than having to screw around with numbers when I'm doing a 2500 or 3000 pts army and I'm forced to cut things off to fit in the Standard (because  knowing me I'll forget about it until I got a nice 3000 pts army done and then it's "Damn I got to cut 35 points to fit in my standard!")

7- Yeah I got 20 state troops, added 3 to the Halberds (to make 30 with characters), and made 15 into a block of swordsmen, WS4 slightly better armour and (most importantly) a ward save in melee ought to help them face off against marauders...but again it is just a "base" that I will develop down the road.

Thanks for the advice.

Offline CarolineWellwater

  • Posts: 396
Re: 2000 what I've got
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2015, 11:36:28 PM »
(( Inquisitor Jex,

Some additional counter-points.

1) I understand the auto-hit = wound effect, and I was agreeing with that in my original post.  I've seen a Grand Master empowered with Beasts magic and wielding the Runefang, become a mini-blender.  I was more suggesting the magic item swap in an effort to save some points, get a better ward save for your Grandmaster, and still have a few points left over to move into your units.

2) I was more stating that if you want to use a Life Wizard, s/he should be Level 4.  A Level 2 Life Wizard will not synergize well with "Throne of Vines", as there really will be no spells that the Throne can empower.

2-A) I was not implying that you should only bring one Wizard.  I do love me some Fire magic as well.  I was suggesting that, if you didn't want to upgrade your Life Wizard to Level 4, Heavens might serve you better as a Level 2.

2-A-1) Normally, I have a Shadow and Heavens, Shadow and Fire, or Fire and Heavens sorceress pairings.

2-B) Even without a wizard, you'll still have a magic phase, as you have two Warrior Priests.  Sometimes it is worth dumping all your power dice into casting a prayer.  You'll only get one dispell attempt, if you have no wizard, but you'll still have a magic phase.

2-C) There is a tremendous difference between a Level 4 and a Level 2, in terms of casting / dispelling.  A Level 4 wizard is basically getting an extra d6 added to whatever they are casting/dispelling, due to their level.

3) Well, the big advantage of range, is that you'll have a better, target-rich environment, you'll be spending fewer turns moving, and you can back-deploy a bit.  In order to ensure your Handgunners can shoot on turn one, they have to basically deploy as far forward as possible.  With Crossbows, you can deploy them back a bit, and still have them be within range.

3-A) As to the Hochland, I'd rather have a model die, than "scratch off a wound".  One wound lost means you're just peeving the model.  Not to mention that Sniper means you'll suffer an additional -1 to Hit... so your Marksman will pretty much be shooting for a 6+.  In order to even offer a credible Hochland threat, you need four of them... and all four of them have to have LOS to your target.  Overall, I've found the Hochland to just be too expensive for what it does, and it's had zero psych-warfare affect in my area... so it doesn't even give that effect.  As such, to me, it's not worth it.  I've found the Dual-Pistol upgrade to be better for the Handgunners, as it at least offers the ability to move-and-shoot, and increases the density of attacks coming from the Handgunners.

3-A-1) Also, for the same cost as Marksman with Hochland upgrade, you can get Three more Handgunners.

3-A-2) Three more Handgunners increases your minimum damage threat, your average damage, as well as your maximum damage potential.

3-B) Overall, though, I prefer mobility.  With Strength 3 able to wound up to T10, I find the Skirmish ability of Archers to be leagues better than Handguns or Crossbows.  Archers basically have a 32" threat radius... and Skirmish effectively gives them 360 LOS.

3-B-1) Skirmishers also can screen your block of Halberdiers, allowing you to determine when/where melee will occur.

3-C) Lastly, who cares if your chaff runs away.  Your opponent is targeting units that are sacrificial and ablative to your battle line anyway.

4) Makes sense on the Heavy Armor.  I just prefer to have both.  A 4+ / 6+ Melee is still better than a 5+ / 6+ Melee.  Also, keep in mind that the Priest can give a 5+ Ward Save in melee as well.

5) Makes sense on the Knight Champion.  Just didn't see him in the list when I looked.

6) Still have to disagree on the Swordsmen.  To me, the difference between WS3 and WS4 is cosmetic, more than anything.  At 15-strong, they really can't suffer more than one turn of anything... magic... melee... enemy missile fire, without becoming combat ineffective.  At 20, they have the mass of bodies to at least survive a turn, and still offer some melee threat.

Anyway, just some more thoughts to consider. ))