Warhammer-Empire.com
The Empire at War ... The Gamers Guild => The Old World Cometh Again !!! => Topic started by: GamesPoet on February 03, 2021, 10:36:19 PM
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The information being provided is growing.
The Empire ...
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/02/06/cartography-in-the-old-worldgw-homepage-post-1fw-homepage-post-1/
And Bretonnia … with Orcs in the Pale Sisters … and High Elfs on the coast ...
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/12/28/the-old-world-your-first-look-at-the-map-of-bretonnia/
Kislev concept art …
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/03/23/the-old-world-ice-guard-of-kislevgw-homepage-post-4fw-homepage-post-2/
And more Kislev concept art ...
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/05/11/old-world-update-bearsgw-homepage-post-4/
Video of comments from some Old World designers ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STAxzrnd0aA
Video of Kislev fighting Chaos for Warhammer III video gaming …
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAr7yUlM0Po
Map of Cathay ...
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/02/03/watch-kislev-battle-a-bloodthirster-in-the-first-trailer-for-total-war-warhammer-iii/#gallery-1
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Aaargh! Stop! Stop!! The vortex is dragging me in. I CANNOT afford this nonsense on the horizon. I have nothing left to mortgage.
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You have kids don’t you? :evil:
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I posted this in the gamer thread but I thought it might be good here as well.
Trailer for the new Total Warhammer game coming. A Boyar goes bad.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JWqlDxEQps
There's also a lot of talk about how closely GW is working with the game company when it comes to The Old World, and how they're working to share ascetics and stuff. So there's a chance we can get some ideas about what The Old World game will be like based on this. For example, I notice we see both bear cavalry and ice maidens in this trailer. Both things previewed as coming in The Old World...
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If it's anything to go by, new plastic Kislevites are going to be pretty cool! The huge ice golem/bear thing is clearly already ticking the box of huge monster unit to be expected.
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I'm interested to see what folks say on the board (I remember Demigryphs coming out.) but I actually like the idea of Bear Cav. They look neat and would be fantastic converting opportunities for heroes and lords.
The witch warriors? Ice maidens? I also think look neat. I'd use them sparingly if I got any, dont want to much magic infused stuff, but as a special unit I think they fit in.
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Another new trailer for Total Warhammer is out, and with tons of new pictures. While its a seperate video game, we're fairly sure its going to be linked to the Old World so could be some good hints.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/05/13/a-giant-bear-beats-up-daemons-in-total-war-warhammer-iiis-new-gameplay-trailer/
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/QUYERWpst1cw4tkg.jpg)
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/oKGuxpi4i3zQykIe.jpg)
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/XYiMxpDUFudaG7qA.jpg)
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/CrKcQN7GDXwQmNVu.jpg)
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Apparently one of the streams confirmed all the Kislev stuff from the game will be in Old World, Im just to lazy to look for a time stamp.
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I like that they are fleshing out Kislev. The idea that there've got multiple heraldry assigned to different areas of their region is great! :icon_cool: :::cheers:::
Imagine if they fleshed out Tilea more. Of course I am dreaming. :icon_mrgreen: :icon_lol:
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Good stuff, but that ice bear elemental looks awfully high fantasy... :closed-eyes: :happy: :-P
Old Stonebeard
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Welcome to the influence of W:AoS. :icon_wink: :icon_lol:
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Good stuff, but that ice bear elemental looks awful...
I agree :evil: :wink:
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Some pretty interesting troop types there from the Survival mode gameplay trailer.
Tsar guard look like nicely styled Kislev footsloggers with *cue Skyrim accent* curved swords, Kossars bringing the ranged attacks, Winged Lancers, War Bear cavalry, a bear-carriage Tsar cannon "Little Grom", couple of characters, ice guard and the women with ice bows all looking good, but I'm most intrigued by a unit called Streltsi!?
It's blokes with great axes... that are also rifles!? Shoot 'em from the handle then hack 'em to bits with the other end!
Ha!
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It's blokes with great axes... that are also rifles!? Shoot 'em from the handle then hack 'em to bits with the other end!
They are based on historical Muscovy units. By WHFRP 2 fluff, the first Streltsi were Kossar regiments from Erengrad the Prince their sought to modernize. The idea has spread to other parts of Kislev and Kossar regiments from other regions are sent to the drilling school there for a similar upgrade.
Kossars are of course loosely based on the Cossacks of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth what with their limited and hereditary number but I wonder how much of that fluff will work itself in to either the tabletop or W3TW. I've not watched all the various other test runs of the battle by media so if some folks have seen any Ungol Horsemen, lower grade melee infantry, or I hope War Wagons I'd be curious to hear of them.
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Good stuff, but that ice bear elemental looks awful...
I agree :evil: :wink:
You're not wrong. :ph34r:
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Haven't heard a peep from GW since February 3rd. has anyone else seen new info?
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Nope, not yet. Although there's a ton of rumours about if/what Old World stuff will be on the new Warhammer Streaming Service.
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https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/07/21/square-bases-and-kislev-ascendant-see-your-questions-about-warhammer-the-old-world-answered/
Square bases! Being able to field the old armies. Set during the Age of the three Emperors. :biggriin:
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So first update since February. Good to see.
Seems like they are coming up with a square based game system, with rank and file, and using rules from the old editions as well. Interesting.
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Interesting to see the new Kislev borders to.
Students of Warhammer lore will also note that the borders of Kislev are very different from what they may be familiar with. The eastern border is not here defined by the World’s Edge Mountains, but in fact extends through the Belyevobota Pass, through the Great Skull Lands – northernmost reaches of the Dark Lands – through the Mountains of Mourn, and out into the limitless expanses of the eastern steppes beyond. Clearly, at this time Kislev was a vast empire indeed, its territories encompassing lands said by some to be haunted by Hobgoblins, Centaurs and Half-Orcs, though who can say which of these, if any, are true?
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/t4mgtcBs50u7KoKA.jpg)
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Big focus on Kislev it seems, no surprise there though. I guess Kislev vs Chaos will likely be the starter set?
Given the setting in the timeline as well it certainly makes things interesting, are we going to see Magnus the Pious getting a miniature perhaps???
Also wonder if the Empire's civil war will open up the opportunity to have stylistically different human factions beyond just Empire/Bretonnia.
Ah well, it'll still be years off yet but good to have an update :::cheers:::
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I have a pile of grey empire plastic still around. I sold most finished stuff, war machines etc. But I could not part with my with my mortar, "Chalice of Sigmars wrath" so I got that still!
Stirland fur immer!
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And in this era of the Empire ... does anyone know how Stirland aligned themselves?
Suspect Middenland covers Nordland, Ostland, and Hochland, maybe Hochland is in with Talabecland, Ostermark, and perhaps Stirland included, and imagine Reikland, Averland, and Wissenland are together. Hopefully, there's someone more familiar with the fluff of those times than I.
Regardless, good have this newest word regarding the project. :::cheers:::
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I am pretty excited about new kislev models, the bear cav especially. But I don't have any faith in GW's rule writers at this point, they haven't written a good set of rules that i enjoy playing for about 15 years. We will see, i am definitely tentatively interested in the game as a whole.
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I'm not uninterested in Kislev, and suspect the motif could bring a lot of former Empire players, and some new players from W:AoS, back to the Old World.
As for rules, definitely more of the wait and see attitude here, and trying not to get my hopes up. Plus, here's hoping they don't just complete it as a project, and there's some momentum to continue moving forward in a positive fashion, although I'm not betting on it.
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I am more excited for what I can use in the 6th army than what is coming. The Gryphon Legion and Winged Lancers models are too close, so if I use the bear riders on 50x50 and double the wounds, they would make a cool Gryphon Legion instead of the old models
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That makes sense. Just remember two words ... "Cursed City". :icon_wink: :::cheers:::
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Isn't that the game that only exists in pictures?
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:icon_lol: :icon_exclaim:
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I imagined Stirland to support the Emperor in Altdorf and therefore side with Riekland etc. After all, they seem to reason along the lines that if Talabecland say go, we say no!
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Been pondering this today and wondered whether any new Empire stuff for the Old World will also be crossover with AoS 'Freeguild'. This is mainly because I have some duplicate bits and bobs and it's a personal dilemma whether to splash them all now on my Wissenlanders or whether to bide my time and keep some in reserve for potential kitbashing with anything new to come a few years down the line...
Annoyingly I'm also once again second-guessing my choice of round bases but hey-ho, they're a visual collection not a gaming army so I need to keep reminding myself of that!
I know this has been discussed a little bit previously but my concern is more that the Empire won't get much attention beyond a few characters and heroes, with the rank and file remaining as they are now...
Hmm
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Do we know if Solland is still alive and kicking at the time of this 'revival' of the Old World?
I don't remember the years they said this would cover (and am too lazy to google it :-P) and whether it's before or after the destruction in the South?...
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Visually, they still look better on squares ;)
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Visually, they still look better on squares ;)
Naa I have to disagree, hence the decision in the first place. People always say a mini has a 'golden angle' where it looks best and sometimes that's really hard to line up in relation to the square base. In that respect roundies have the aesthetic upper hand IMO though I do plan on getting/making movement trays that will have flat edges for when they're on display.
Anyway - we digress :biggriin:
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Do we know if Solland is still alive and kicking at the time of this 'revival' of the Old World?
I don't remember the years they said this would cover (and am too lazy to google it :-P) and whether it's before or after the destruction in the South?...
Solland's end came in 1707
The origins of The Time of The Three Emperors was in 1152, its actual start was in 1547, while in 1750 there were 4 emperors for a wee bit, and its end came in 2304 when Magnus the Pious brought all of the provinces in underneath one Empire.
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Sooo yes?
Solland still exists at the time of the proposed Old World revival. Oooh goody! :biggriin:
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People are going to believe what they want to believe, hope what they want to hope.
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Sooo yes?
Solland still exists at the time of the proposed Old World revival. Oooh goody! :biggriin:
The setting is post Vampire Wars and pre-Great War so no Solland.
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Oh my, leave it to SOF to come along to settle another's beliefs and hopes.
:engel:
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Sooo yes?
Solland still exists at the time of the proposed Old World revival. Oooh goody! :biggriin:
The setting is post Vampire Wars and pre-Great War so no Solland.
Ah well, nevermind eh. I think I've decided to hang on to a few of the rarer bits I have in my bits box in anticipation of hopefully kitbashing with whatever comes along in the future so maybe instead of Sollanders I'll drift towards one of the other provinces I quite like, maybe Hochland or Averland perhaps.
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Oh my, leave it to SOF to come along to settle another's beliefs and hopes.
You plan the parade, I'll bring the rain ;)
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:icon_lol: Suspect you'll be bringing beer. :icon_wink:
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So the game is going to be a combination of 3rd edition to 8th ? did i hear that right? 1st and 2nd being more of an RPG
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Is that the rumor?
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Is that the rumor?
Yes, as far as i know ........... can I source it ,nope
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Sourced for you:
"The Old World will gather up all our favourite mechanics from the 3rd edition to the 8th edition** and add new elements where needed to create something deeply familiar yet fresh and new.
** The 1st and, to some extent, 2nd editions were more of a roleplaying game with miniatures than a tabletop war game, with Warhammer Fantasy Battle as we know it truly being born to the world with its 3rd edition."
From:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/07/21/square-bases-and-kislev-ascendant-see-your-questions-about-warhammer-the-old-world-answered/?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=Article&utm_campaign=Old+World+Studio+perspective+of+Kislev (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/07/21/square-bases-and-kislev-ascendant-see-your-questions-about-warhammer-the-old-world-answered/?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=Article&utm_campaign=Old+World+Studio+perspective+of+Kislev)
(21. Jul 2021)
-Z
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Sourced for you:
"The Old World will gather up all our favourite mechanics from the 3rd edition to the 8th edition** and add new elements where needed to create something deeply familiar yet fresh and new.
** The 1st and, to some extent, 2nd editions were more of a roleplaying game with miniatures than a tabletop war game, with Warhammer Fantasy Battle as we know it truly being born to the world with its 3rd edition."
From:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/07/21/square-bases-and-kislev-ascendant-see-your-questions-about-warhammer-the-old-world-answered/?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=Article&utm_campaign=Old+World+Studio+perspective+of+Kislev (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/07/21/square-bases-and-kislev-ascendant-see-your-questions-about-warhammer-the-old-world-answered/?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=Article&utm_campaign=Old+World+Studio+perspective+of+Kislev)
(21. Jul 2021)
-Z
OK cool, thanks
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Hopefully they leave most of 8th out of it. there's a reason the game died there.
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I hope they give us Empire troops like 4th edition.
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Gankom posted this elsewhere, although looks like they are talking about "units", and so here we go ...
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/09/21/read-the-official-background-for-total-war-warhammer-iiis-most-deadly-units/
Seems like there's definitely an effort for expanding into Cathay.
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I guess for GW Kislev and Cathay are old enough to be truly Old World but gives them a relatively fresh slate to create new things and for the whole venture to feel like a progression rather than simply a rehash of what was.
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Probably true, and as is the idea of having three empire nations, issues in Bretonnia between them and the Orcs, plus the involvement of High Elf territories there as well.
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Good commercial move too I suppose. There's a good market for GW over in the far east but they've never had a great amount of tabletop or indeed video game representation before, certainly not in the Old World/Fantasy/AoS setting...
(I know it's all fiction but it's not hard to make the leaps to the real world inspirations for a lot of stuff)
Anyway, we digress. I followed the link to the Total War 3 trailer but it wasn't there! I better go find it on YouTube or something.
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New preview is up for the Old World!
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/10/07/discover-warhammer-the-old-worlds-ultimate-getaway-for-exiled-lords-and-rotten-princes/
With all the buzz surrounding the long-awaited reveal of Grand Cathay, our minds are turned once again to the goings-on in Warhammer: The Old World. Since revealing the chivalrous lands of Bretonnia and the frozen north of Kislev, the team has been hard at work on one of the lesser-known areas of the setting. Today, Andy Hoare from the Warhammer Studio is here to tell us all about the ever-changing Border Princes.
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/S5oRSwp3y3gxdFw4.jpg)
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/3Dzu6O8V3KEXLJij-1383x1024.jpg)
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/pJdCTjYs8FgfxUAj-1383x1024.jpg)
I have to say, I really did not expect them to be filling in so many of the empty spaces. I really did think they'd be sticking to the 'main' areas at least to start.
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Oooh juicy! :::cheers:::
Looks to be even more expansion into the uncharted lands of Old World lore - the Border Princes.
Maybe there is some hope for human factions afterall, we could end up with a revival of Brets, new Empire, Kislev, Cathay and some rag tag scoundrels from beyond the Black Mountains!?
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Good to see Matorea on the map back then. :icon_cool: :::cheers:::
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good stuff
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I'm not surprised they are filling holes, they do want to sell new models alongside the returning player's collections being dusted off. If the rules are good enough, I have an "all the things" method of collecting that will be an add on to my current 6th collection (only if they keep the yahtzee with miniatures and most of 8th out of it)
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....my current 6th collection (only if they keep the yahtzee with miniatures and most of 8th out of it)
I so hope you are wrong and the chesshammer 6th edition does not make a comeback. GW can only make one of us happy. Though, I wouldn't put it beyond them to fail both of us. :-P
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Well I'd take a 6th edition style over 7th or 8th as well. 8th was all about big things and massive figure units, and that didn't impress.
However, it is my understanding that they are planning to do something with the rules that pulls from 3rd thru 8th. Hopefully that means not W:AoS, and probably not, because they are going to use square bases (if their recent comments are true), and not the round used with W:AoS.
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The major thing is that based don't actually matter in Age of Sigmar. The round bases are far more for ascetic then any real rules mechanic. I can see them testing some rules from AoS, or perhaps bringing in things like the subfaction rules.
I do have some small concerns that the Old World is quickly going to run into the problem Fantasy, AoS and 40k have, which is that they introduce so much stuff that it takes forever to update anything. End up with so many factions, none of them get a particularly decent work. Or worse, they get a good introduction/first wave, and then sit years without any follow ups. Fyreslayers, Brets, etc.
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Aren't the Border Princes basically the Old World's version of the 2nd and 11th Space Marine Legions?
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Nope, not even close. Much more terrible, nasty, full of history, backstabbing, war, violence, takeovers, squabbling over land and money, women and wine.
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Quite borderline, really...
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If the rules are good enough
I read that they will be grathering/curating "their favorite" rules from 1st-8th edition. So I suspect tere are ging to be a fair number "herohammer" (5th) elements. As well as a fair number of RGP elements from the earlier editions.
That said they would be fools not to dumb it down a little bit. For guys like us here on theforum that will probabley sting a bit but it's gotta be done imo. Granted it's still going to be "rank & flank". That's a barrier to most people right there as it is.
That being said, simplified 6th ed rules seem to be the way to go.
The round bases are far more for ascetic then any real rules mechanic.
If I recall correctly, it's pretty much confimed to be square bases.
Quite borderline, really...
Get out...
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Base or Square?
Definitely square! Warhammer: The Old World is a reinvention of the classic rank-and-file game of Warhammer Fantasy Battles. Regiments move in ranked-up units, and strategic manoeuvring into position to launch or receive a critical charge will be as much a key part of the game as it ever was.
Bases - are you SURE they're going to be square?
Yes, we’re positive!
Rules: Totally new or 8th Edition?
Both! We’ve played every single edition of Warhammer Fantasy Battles over the years and like every player, we have our favourite bits from each. Warhammer: The Old World will gather up all our favourite mechanics from the 3rd edition to the 8th edition** and add new elements where needed to create something deeply familiar yet fresh and new.
** The 1st and, to some extent, 2nd editions were more of a roleplaying game with miniatures than a tabletop war game, with Warhammer Fantasy Battle as we know it truly being born to the world with its 3rd edition.
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Ah, I see Fidelis did my work for me! Thanks!
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Yup square basis indeed! My comment was more about how bases don't matter in AoS, so wont really stop them from carrying over any mechanics they happen to like. Or vice versa, test in AoS.
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Yep, that is how I interpreted your comment.
And I don't mind that square or round bases don't matter in W:AoS. Just don't tell anyone I liked something about it. :icon_wink: :icon_lol:
As an aside only ... I use both round and square based figures for Lion Rampant style games. Seems to work fine. :icon_cool:
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Ah, I see Fidelis did my work for me! Thanks!
We serve to please and please to serve. Note that the announced rules' mechanics is not really new: it has been the procedure of virtually every new edition.
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All my minis have round bases now and i am vex. :dry:
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Never switched to round, tried aos, decided i would rather play old rules, and stuck with 6th
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Never fear, GW is here!
Seriously ... I'd wait until there are more announcements before doing anything with my bases. Besides ... sabots could work. :::cheers:::
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i really like the Empire book that "project warhammer" did. Its like 4th edition with lots of cool stuff
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I dropped more detail in the Total War thread, but to keep things centralized I thought I'd drop this bit here.
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/4MZDRvDTQnQgkhiS.jpg)
ALSO confirmation that its going to be used for The Old World.
Cathay has been ruled by a race of immortal shape-shifting dragons for thousands of years, and it’s not a place that changes much, so this map is just as valid for the era in which Total War: Warhammer III is set as it is during the earlier period that will be explored by Warhammer: The Old World. Rest assured, scholars of Warhammer, this map works in both settings, so get studying!
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Thanks! And I looked here first, being more of a miniature gamer, and far less of a video gamer. Far, far less. :icon_cool: :::cheers:::
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I find it interesting that it's referred to as the largest realm of men in the known world, but is ruled by immortal shape-shifting dragons...
Also dragons exist in the Old World, as the typical legendary beasts, so how do these guys relate?
Could make for some cool fluff.
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Okay I do like floating islands in fantasy but it seems like too much in WFB. Its like they are sort of mixing the more grounded fantasy of WFB and the way over the top setting in Sigmar. I guess they have to make things a little different to keep things fresh.
Its quite the expansive world they are building. I was under the impression this was going to be limited to just the area of the Empire and Bretonnia with some Orcs and Elves sprinkled in.
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Where's "floating islands" coming from?
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(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/8eJnHg9OpJSsZJxU.jpg)
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Yeah, like there'll be plenty of folks trying to duplicate that on their table top. Not me.
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Okay I do like floating islands in fantasy but it seems like too much in WFB. Its like they are sort of mixing the more grounded fantasy of WFB and the way over the top setting in Sigmar. I guess they have to make things a little different to keep things fresh.
I agree, first impressions of Cathay are that it's a little OTT, we've already got immortal shape-shifting dragons and floaty islands... Let's be honest if those things exist in the WFB setting then why is the rest of the world so dull by comparison!? :-P :unsure:
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Right back at the start (well, not first ed, but when the OldWorld actually appeared in WFRP) there were really odd chaos images - stuff by John Blanche particularly. We just liked the images then got on with the game, in a Warhammer World (mostly) nothing like the images. We just assumed that those sorts of images were in the chaos realm, or Old Worlders' dreams.
I think these pics are a leaf from the old book!
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From what I have seen from Total War Warhammer III, Cathay is just as over the top as the new Kislev. The new world they are building might be set in the 'Old World', but it's the design philosophy of AoS that is being applied to old Warhammer here. I guess we won't get Warhammer Fantasy, but instead a Warhammer Fantasy². Too much fantasy ... too much magic ...
I absolutely do don't like that, but I guess you can ignore those things to a certain degree.
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Where's "floating islands" coming from?
They are a regular feature in manga/anime or manhua. Here is one form Tales of Demons and Gods:
(https://m.manhuaplus.com/images/2022/01/08/kVJmt.jpg)
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In all honesty having reflected on my previous comments a little further, I guess we do have some very fantastical elements in the Old World like the Great Vortex or The Auric Bastion to name just a couple, not to mention Albion which is supposedly a reflection on my home nation and is perpetually covered in fog it seems!
So I guess these new things aren't completely out of character, maybe it's just because what we're used to is a little more sparse, not always visible and easy to forget or ignore, whereas bigass floaty mountains are a bit more in your face?
At the end of the day these are 2 'new', unexplored realms in terms of lore so they have free reign to go in whatever direction they choose. Let's just wait and see what lies beyond the horizon for the parts of the world we do already know and love... however fearful I am of that! :-P
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I didn't really see a good place to put this, but I found it interesting. Black Library is putting out a new special feature book. The Witch Hunters Handbook, an in universe guide for Witch Hunters on how to do their job. But this is the bit that caught my eye, and why I'm posting it here.
Written by Darius Hinks, The Witch Hunter’s Handbook sets out the requirements governing those Witch Hunters sworn to do Sigmar’s work in the Old World. The Six Holy Principles make up the original founding tenets of The Ancient Initiatic and Holy Order of the Templars of Sigmar – as recorded in Hieronymus Black’s Rules and Statutes.
As far as I know, this is one of the first full books thats been set in the Old World in the past few years. I've seen a few short stories, and they've rereleased a number of older books, but this looks to be a big special book they're putting a lot of effort into. Could be linked to more Old World news coming soon, just a coincidence, or who knows. But it caught my eye.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/08/10/the-witch-hunters-handbook-reveals-the-secrets-of-sigmars-agents/
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A good catch, thanks for posting! :icon_cool: :::cheers:::
It does make me wonder when we'll see some sort of bigger announcement.
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Interesting update on the Old World, where they're showcasing new art.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/10/14/warhammer-the-old-world-orcs-bretonnians-tomb-kings-arrive/
It’s been quite a while since our last update, but that’s how you know we’ve been extra busy! Our miniatures designers, painters, writers, illustrators, and graphic designers have all been engaged in a period of industrious activity getting new miniatures designed and the main rulebook written, playtested, lavishly illustrated, and laid out. This truly is a gargantuan project with lots to show off, but for now we want to give a glimpse of some of the amazing artwork the Warhammer: The Old World team’s illustrators have been producing…
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/WpocBL8JIEn3HCcS.jpg)
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/SCuYHiElKUVHGoib.jpg)
This Tomb Kings of Khemri chariot sports the classic red and teal of Settra the Imperishable. These are the colours of the city of Khemri, the great necropolis of the Land of the Dead, but each of Settra’s client kingdoms sports its own distinctive livery.
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/mC7GvDPi5DxDdtij.jpg)
Like the humble Peasant Archer, this Knight of the Kingdom of Bretonnia wears the black and red of Duke Gastille. In his case though, his raiment is much more sumptuous, bearing the white axe icon of Brionne. Incidentally, the presence of the gold rim around the shield device on his barding marks him out as a Knight of the Realm – a more junior Knight Errant would not be permitted this element.
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/UH2EIx67OitkEpAG.jpg)
This Orc Boar Boy is shown simply doing what Orcs love doing more than anything else in life – charging into battle without a care in the world!
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/pf5qm3QmGy2WXa5l.jpg)
There’s lots more work to do, but we’ve recently added a number of emblems indicating locations important to the Dwarfs and the greenskins – in particular up in the mountain ranges that cross the Old World, and in the northern reaches of the Badlands. Each icon is just the tip of the iceberg, with a huge amount of work going into developing the character and history behind each and every group and faction.
Good to see them working away at it.
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Looks like some interesting boundary lines in the Empire.
Also on GW's site, there is this at the top of the art work ...
The world of Warhammer has always been blessed with the most lavish of artwork, but that’s no excuse not to create more! The studio illustrators have been hard at work rendering classic and new miniatures into full-colour artwork. A key part of this process has been to identify exactly the correct look and feel for these new pieces, capturing just the right level of gritty, myth-inspired classic fantasy that much of this beloved setting encapsulates.*
And there is this at the end of the write up ...
So that’s it for now, but stay tuned to the Warhammer Community website for more information throughout 2023, which is of course the 40th birthday year of the venerable game of Warhammer!
* I say “much of” because there are, and always have been, what could be described as “high fantasy” elements within certain Warhammer factions, in particular the High Elves with their wondrous cities and the Empire of Cathay, with its floating bastions!
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I'm very surprised by this artwork. That actually looks like Warhammer Fantasy!
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Could be good indeed
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I'm very surprised by this artwork. That actually looks like Warhammer Fantasy!
Makes you wonder what they have actually *done* with this 'new' re-launch of The Old World... these could have just been leftover bits from the OLD Old World!?
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I'm very surprised by this artwork. That actually looks like Warhammer Fantasy!
Makes you wonder what they have actually *done* with this 'new' re-launch of The Old World... these could have just been leftover bits from the OLD Old World!?
It does feel like artwork from the 6th/7th edition. The Bretonnian knight could even be from Karl Kopinski, who is responsible for a lot of iconic warhammer artwork of the past.
(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fs-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com%2Foriginals%2F1f%2Feb%2Fa9%2F1feba96070174b816f87262488b6ac8b.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=0aabe07d393b7ed2f53757b1ccf46f38787b781f74121ce97cad49cabcd408df&ipo=images)
These artwork pieces are also very different from AoS artwork, which often seems to be done by less experienced artists and frequently feels a bit rushed and cheap.
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the artwork reminds me of the drawings in the much maligned End Times books. *ducks*
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:icon_eek: :icon_lol:
Art work is ok ... my sense is that they've got a much bigger task in front of them than that. :ph34r:
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It looks to me like they could just re-release the sprues from the Bretonnian battalion set and be good to go. I assume they will refresh them, but it doesn't look like anything has changed and that is great in my book. Same with the Orks. Oh man how awesome would it be if the Bretonnians got one of those early 3rd edition cannons!!! The ones that didn't have wheels. I would go ape shit over that.
I wonder if they got any feedback that the earlier stuff they released was too over the top and are grounding things a bit, or maybe just re-hashing existing designs so they can use as much of the old molds as possible.
They really are putting a lot of thought into this though. I mean, they are going out of the way to develop each of the areas pointed out to on the map which seems like a big job in its self, nevermind the rules and model designs. I wonder if rather than a staggered release, if a ton of it isn't released all at once. And I wonder how they will do army books. If we will get an index set like 40k 8th or individual army books which will take time to all come out. I think they need to have as much stuff come out in the beginning as they can.
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Depends on their strategy. However, suspect they got to at least have a lot prepared, even if not released at the same time, certainly with in perhpas a years time. The idea they've gone back in time, that means if they're going to prep the fluff background to a decent degree, that's got to take time.
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I think one of the odd things to keep in mind, is that whatever GW puts out, that thing has been in development and ready for several years by that point. The new Imperial Guard stuff for example is apparently stuff that's been "completed" and just waiting for full productions and distribution for nearly five years apparently. So I wouldn't be surprised if they've got both a wide variety of stuff ready, but also slowly setting up the first few waves.
It would be really nice if they maybe mixed them together. Say something new/shiny/higher magic like Kislev, and then side by side with something more traditional like Brets.
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we are reading a lot into tidbits here. Being the sceptical kind, I think just because there are still Bret knights and peasants doesn't mean there won't also be Ethereal-Angel-Paladins-of-the-Lady-with-wings(TM) (of course complete with giant pauldrons) in that same book.
Just like I would expect there to still be kossars and winged lancer next to the strange make-their-own-snowy-ground sled, colossal-godbear-of-doom and ice maidens they've shown for kislev before.
still happy with the pictures and clear indication that the new Old World will at least not be completely AoSified.
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Pretty big article about the setting of the Old World, and the state of the Empire at the time.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/01/11/old-world-development-diary-explore-the-war-torn-lands-of-the-world-that-was/
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The artwork is all very similar to the existing plastic sets that are either still in production or have been removed; flagellants, archers/huntsmen, greatswords and, in particular, militia.
If this heralds the return of the militia set I think a few people will be very happy, even if only for mordheim purposes :biggriin:
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Ok thank god they look like traditional empire troops and not flashy over the top fantasy stuff like we have been seeing. Maybe they are toning some of that down.
Getting excited.
Hate how they remind us the world still ended. Stfu.
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TBH the only thing I'm excited about at all is that this game is set in W-E's Crisis in Marienburg / Treachery & Greed / Empire of Wolves era.
Mayhap it's time for some refights...?
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Weird that they initially mention Talabacland and Stirland, yet only mention Talabacland towards the end as one of the 4 provinces of the Empire. However, perhaps I am not understanding the time line. Time will show more, if I'm not dead by then.
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It’s important to remember, though, that even though the setting is returning, these events still happened, and that the Old World was destroyed.
Why? .. Why would it important to remember that? It was a stupid thing to do. I think they would benefit if many of us forget about that.
Considering the first announcement for 'The Old World' was made in 2019, not a lot of information has been released so far ...
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Old World Development Diary – Walk Like a Nehekharan in the Land of the Dead
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/02/06/old-world-development-diary-walk-like-a-nehekharan-in-the-land-of-the-dead/
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Here is a video produced in March of 2023 regarding some of the rumors about the re-release of the Old World with a new rule set ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZU2NhRLWSNU
... includes the rumors on base sizes, starter set, army books, and new armies ...
... the video also reminded me that this year is the 40th anniversary of Warhammer Fantasy. :icon_eek: :icon_cool: :::cheers:::
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In today’s article we’re visiting the armouries of the Old World and giving you a first look at some of the weapons and wargear that can be found in the brand new plastic kits coming for the Kingdom of Bretonnia and the Tomb Kings of Khemri. En garde!
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/EgV6WMba3vci7Sq5.jpg)
Fresh from the forges of fair Bretonnia come new helmets, weapons and shields. Bretonnian knights commonly adorn their helmets with creatures that appear on their family heraldry, or those they believe they share a personality trait with. A knight famed for being stubborn in the face of adversity might sport a horned bull, while a noble renowned for their love of hunting may embellish their helm with a pair of antlers. These large helmets feature just a small selection of the fantastical birds and beasts you’ll see when the Bretonnian army marches to war.
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/0ZChrgm7HQWuMB5V.jpg)
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/TlYjpIhM9ZfEW1uI.jpg)
Tomb Kings and Liche Priests have always carried weapons and artefacts of exquisite quality and artifice. First up is an ornate spear with wings projecting out from the shaft – a feature designed to prevent an impaled victim from sliding too far down the blade! Above the spear is a spiked flail decorated with the symbol of a scarab towards the bottom of the handle – a common icon in Khemri and in Numas (known as The Scarab City), in particular.
The large-bladed halberd and curved khopesh are signature weapons, each capable of slicing through armour, flesh and bone, with long sweeping blows. Weapons such as these have claimed an untold number of lives in the name of Settra the Imperishable and the eternal glory of Nehekhara.
Alongside these is a ceremonial staff decorated with skulls and bones, held in the grip of a mummified hand. When the Liche Priests harness their magic to command the vast legions of the Undead, they rely upon these arcane staffs and icons to channel their macabre magic more effectively – reducing the risk of the fickle Winds of Magic acting against the caster’s wishes.
So we know for sure there's some good Brett and Tomb Kings kits coming, thats pretty interesting.
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Very interesting.
They've now featured the Border Princes and the Tomb Kings area on their maps for the Old World. Plus the idea that they've mentioned Bretonnia and Tomb Kings previously in other posts, and now this!
I could see perhaps a starter that featured these two forces coming to blows on the edge of their two areas in the Border Princes and Tomb King lands. Sort of like what GW is doing with so many starter sets for Kill Team.
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I have been enjoying the spectacle of seller trying to flog plastic Bret minis on eBay for insane prices over the past few months. I suspect todays announcement will only further that frenzy as sellers realise their nest eggs are about to plummet in value :-P
Those pics look great. It is going to be very hard to not just buy bits of everything if the finished product is of suitably high quality. My one concern however is scale.
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I'm concerned about scale as well, although will see what happens.
Its great that it looks like GW will be using bits for being able to make various figures, instead of what we've been seeing with some of their other lines that have complicated making conversions.
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So I am guessing these are destined for the starter as the rumors have been saying?
Interesting is the connect piece at the shoulders. Not push fit, but a plug for easy install, unless you like to customize.
I really thought that GW could have just included an update sprue with the old kits and be done. I guess we are getting full new kits.
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Apparently yes to full new kits.
The ebay prices have been a bit over inflated, there's no guarantee we'll even see the same units/heros. Which like JOV said, will cause those recent prices to need an adjustment downward if there' going to eventually be sold.
Plus there's those ossiarch/pre-necron warrior dudes, too.
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New WarCom article on the Old World, and starts off with this
The Old World team are back again this month with a treat for fans of the World-that-Was: a Bretonnian army painted in the heraldry of the Dukedom of Brionne. As if that wasn’t enough, we answer your questions on square bases and sizing.
Alongside many new kits (some of which we previewed last month), Warhammer: The Old World will herald the return of some much-missed ranges of Citadel miniatures. Amongst these will be the chivalrous armies of the Kingdom of Bretonnia, one of the most iconic armies of the Old World.
None of this means the old colour schemes have gone away. We also plan to introduce rules for Exile and Crusade armies. The first allows fans to focus on dishonoured Knights, while the second focuses on the idea of the glorious crusades that form when Knights from all over Bretonnia answer the call to undertake a quest. These schemes can be very colourful indeed, just like the classic Bretonnian armies.
And then we get some confirmation on bases, both good and bad (depending on how you look at resizing.)
As you can see, our painted models are on square bases – but these are slightly bigger than they were back in the days of Warhammer Fantasy Battle. The majority of models in Warhammer: The Old World will indeed sit on bigger bases – there are a few reasons for this.
Over the decades, our models have become larger and more dynamic, which means that many units have become difficult to arrange into ranks and files. Players must be able to line their models up without complex planning about which spear has to go where in order to use them in-game. On top of that, we didn’t like that the back ranks were hidden and hard to see.
So now, all 20mm bases have been replaced with 25mm bases. Most (but not all) 25mm and 25×50 bases have been replaced with new-sized bases.
Q: Are the models getting bigger?
A: No, the new models will be in the same scale as the returning range from Warhammer Fantasy Battle. The base size change has come about because some of those ‘90s and ‘00s models became difficult to rank up, and we’re taking the opportunity to fix the problem. It will mean that newer models joining the range can be more dynamically posed, but proportions remain the same.
There's some other Q&A's and painting stuff here:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/04/14/old-world-development-diary-on-bases-and-the-barons-of-bretonnia/
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Foot knights confirmed.
Or at least suggested.
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"Bretonnian armies look amazing – but painting every knight with a unique heraldry can be a daunting task."
I think this is part of the reason so many people didn't play Bretonians.
"But in the era of the Old World that we’re looking at, it’s not uncommon for knights to be part of a regional army. An army’s general would be a Duke or a Baron, and the whole army’s heraldry will reflect their personal heraldry in some way.
Each Duke rules one of the 14 Dukedoms, and their heraldry is the symbol of that realm. Barons serve the Dukes, ruling smaller regions. A Baron’s heraldry features themes that match their Duke’s, but differ in details (such as the pattern on the field or the exact nature of the device).
The core of the army – Knights of the Realm (on foot and mounted), Knights Errant, Pegasus Knights, and all peasant units – wear the heraldry of the General."
“The knights and peasants that make up the army of Brionne all proudly wear the heraldry of their Duke – a white battle axe upon a quartered field of red and black,” explains Rob, one of the designers. “While in the past Bretonnian knights would have all worn different heraldry, we wanted to convey the idea that most Knights of the Realm are minor nobles in the service of a great lord. This has the added benefit of giving the army a unified appearance on the tabletop.”
1. I'll be interested in hearing the new lore explanation for this. Previously, as explained, each knight had their own heraldry, and each peasant wore their Knight's colors. So does this mean that historical Bretonnia was more united/centralized than in the future?
2. On that note, the whole point of a Bretonnian army is that it was eye blindingly colorful. To have such a uniform scheme seems to defeat the purpose of playing Bretonnians.
Regardless, as they clearly state, painting up a colorful army is not out of the picture. It just means it's not going to be lore friendly. Which is kind of a bummer.
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I don’t think anyone will think its lore unfriendly to have a colourful Bret army.
I think they are mainly trying to battle the rainbow effect if people find it daunting.
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Surely with the new contrast paint range it should be easier than ever to paint an eclectic, brightly coloured Bret army! :biggriin:
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Surely with the new contrast paint range it should be easier than ever to paint an eclectic, brightly coloured Bret army! :biggriin:
As someone who has experience with Contrast, I can safely say that contrast on Brets looks a little weird. At least in the brief experience I've done. To many flat/smooth surfaces.
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First look at the new Tomb Kings and Bretonnians from Warhammer Fest.
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/m1TWXnN6GI0vMn1Y.jpg)
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/COzFKeszgIBAFiBJ.jpg)
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/BvR4cVp9V6PMBRy5.jpg)
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/FCWhElZwN7dPpGHH.jpg)
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A new Brett got previewed today.
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/bODWqliMAhK7r6mf.jpg)
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Looking good. Presume this is a one up figure? In other words, that comes by itself.
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They haven't really said. I wonder if its going to be in an army box like 40k does, and THEN sent out separately.
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!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HOLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/ld5lG8SLAYLhKysD.jpg)
These guys are awesome!
Man it would have been cool to see the fusils in WFB. Maybe even with the Bretonnians or some lesser technical army.
Really amazed with these Free Cities minis.
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Todays article is about the tweaks coming to the game.
Drawing the Battlelines
The rules encourage units with wide frontages, but the ideal number of models per rank is decided by the player, not enforced by the rules. To do this, we’ve ensured that as many models as possible can fight in combat, giving even those models that are within the fighting rank but not in base contact with the enemy the opportunity to bring their weapons to bear.
Combined with the freedom to create and arm characters as you choose from a wide range of options, players have a lot of strategic choices to make when building their units and writing their muster lists, choices that will, in turn, inform their tactics on the battlefield.
Breaking the Enemy
One thing we were keen for Warhammer: the Old World to represent was the push and pull of battle, capturing the way in which a hard-pressed army will gradually succumb to fatigue and attrition. To achieve this, units that lose a round of combat will often give ground reluctantly rather than immediately breaking and fleeing, while the winner can advance to press their advantage.
Players will quickly learn, however, that a cunning enemy will use this push and pull of battling units to lay traps, and an advancing unit runs the risk of exposing a vulnerable flank to a well-timed counter charge!
The Power of Magic
Magic is integral to the game, though the mechanics of its use are simple. The untutored Wizards of the Old World practise strange Lores of Magic of their own devising, manipulating the Winds of Magic and crafting spells that suit their purpose. While such recklessness might alarm some, it gives Wizards freedom to cast a wide range of spells with ease.
To reflect this, spellcasting has been liberated and spread throughout the different phases of the game, rather than restricted to just one. In doing so, we’ve ensured that every spell available to a Wizard can have a significant impact upon the battle if cast in the right place and at the right time.
Situations where a single spell can decide the outcome of a battle are rare. The focus has shifted from keeping track of dice pools or hands of cards onto the positioning of Wizards.
This means players will have to plan ahead, moving their Wizards as carefully as any other unit, both to ensure they can bring their magic to the right place at the right time, and to ensure they can counter the spells of enemy Wizards.
I particularly like the sound of the push and pull of battle. Makes it sound like the lord of the rings style mechanic where fighters separate at the end of the combat phase and pull back. Personally I always found that super tactically interesting, and also led to a much more mobile fight.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/07/24/old-world-development-diary-the-more-things-change-the-more-they-stay-the-same/
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Thanks for posting the link! :icon_cool: :::cheers:::
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Take it with ALL the grains of salt you can imagine, but there's a popular rumour/leak that the christmas battle boxes are going to include two for The Old World. Brets and Tomb Kings.
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From today's preview, a new named character for Brets in the Old World.
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1146118737729167470/1146624880700305548/image.png)
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Lady Élisse Duchaard - Lovely model and great paint job – just a pity its in resin.
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[image]https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/WG3qqxLtY2Xs1yDU.jpg[/image]
He is the first of many reveals coming this week for Warhammer: The Old World and a host of other games, but you’ll need to tune into the live stream to catch them.
Sounds like we can expect a lot of previews coming out on Saturday for Warhammer Day.
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The functional link:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/10/09/warhammer-day-is-coming-and-so-are-some-juicy-new-reveals/ (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/10/09/warhammer-day-is-coming-and-so-are-some-juicy-new-reveals/)
Bret Standard Bearer:
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/WG3qqxLtY2Xs1yDU.jpg)
Ad:
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/fRLslTvTQF8Ej4ni.jpg)
Judging from the ad,
1) ATM The Old World takes precedence over MESBG, which tells something.
2) There will be a lot of new castings of retro models. Ebay prices might plummet a bit.
-Z
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Yep, if Brets and Tomb Kings get all these new models, the ridiculous prices for older stuff could go down in value a bit. People will want to start buying the new versions, and there could be less demand as a result for the older stuff.
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Nobody expects a Bretonnian pegasus...
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/Hbixjt24kVMzO3y4.jpg)
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(https://i.imgur.com/vfcHfJn.jpg)
Take with the usual grain of salt. Empire stuff is rumoured to be arriving mid next year with an Empire/Ork release to mirror the current Bret/TKs
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Surprised the other reveals didn't get mentioned. Including the fact they've confirmed The Old World is coming
Early 2024
, so hopefully not that far away.
The Pegasus kit as a few different build options. Duke, baron or standard.
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/hTxzf1FrcBJfPo5k.jpg)
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/LQAmkt1QycPz8SFR.jpg)
Then there's Foot Knights (of the realm)!
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/rLiGlrXCBL60T50z.jpg)
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/lQFfiQh4n03pgira.jpg)
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/4SHErxZ7YxkDAuq1.jpg)
Old school Pegasus knights, knights of the realm, men at arms, trebuchets and peasant bowmen are all confirmed to be returning more or less unchanged.
These regiments and other future regiments are returning in boxes that contain enough plastic miniatures to make a full regiment, not just a rank or two. With the Peasant Bowmen box, you’ll be able to build a unit of 32 archers, complete with a command group and Defensive Stakes. So dreams of creating massive armies of ranked-up troops will be well within your grasp.
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/AHELsFeZk3oWpuyc.jpg)
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/WFJ7XggpKJUtdqCJ.jpg)
The whole article
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/10/14/warhammer-day-preview-the-kingdom-of-bretonnia-revealed/
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From today's preview, a new named character for Brets in the Old World.
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1146118737729167470/1146624880700305548/image.png)
I just like that it is not an over sculpted mess like so many of the models
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I do quite like those foot knights.
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Some are good I grant you but the one with the orc head would look silly in a battle against dark elves
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Depends. Isn't he carrying a lamp, and could he be giving a new twist to the quote "ἄνθρωπον ζητῶ" (I seek a human)?
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Foot knights ... the Bretonian answer to Empire great swords?
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Not a fan of the idea of Foot Knights for Bretonnia at all, if they are anything but rare choices I'm gonna be very disappointed. Clearly they are pushing this... atrocity tho, such is the sad state of the world...
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Not a fan of the idea of Foot Knights for Bretonnia at all, if they are anything but rare choices I'm gonna be very disappointed. Clearly they are pushing this... atrocity tho, such is the sad state of the world...
Why? Its reasonable there would be knights on foot. If the Brets are based on the French, there are plenty of examples of knights advancing into combat on foot.
I do agree tho it should be limited.
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Basically you dismount them to stop them doing something stupid
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Not a fan of the idea of Foot Knights for Bretonnia at all, if they are anything but rare choices I'm gonna be very disappointed. Clearly they are pushing this... atrocity tho, such is the sad state of the world...
Why? Its reasonable there would be knights on foot. If the Brets are based on the French, there are plenty of examples of knights advancing into combat on foot.
I do agree tho it should be limited.
For one, 6E specifically stated that only characters with the virtue of Empathy would be so "gracious" as to fight in the mud alongside peasants, i.e. on foot.
And in WFRP 2nd edition, it spelled out that Bret Knights
"Bretonnian knights are mounted warriors and very few would deign to fight on foot. Thus, a knight’s steed is very
important to him."
The snobbish, arrogant, if justified, Bretonnian Knights is the very image of Bretonnia I've grown to love, far over the noble-bright 5th nonesense I've come to conclude can only be minstrel's flowery chansons they sang for their noble patron for their amusement. And this disdain from engaging on foot is the finest quality to demonstrate that. When they go to war, Knights join other Knights, on horseback.
I've stuck around for Fantasy for this long because of the lore and the themes of the armies, Bretonnia comes second to Empire for me, and woe betide all mankind for all I care if that's discarded now.
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The fluff is mutable, in 5th anyone could be a knight if they tried hard enough but the army was unable to have warmachines. In 6th you could only be noble if both sides of your parentage were noble but you could have a trebuchet and the Lady wasn't offended.
For that matter, there are examples of knights fighting on foot in the 3 Bretonnian knight novels. They whine and moan about it, but do as the Baron (I think) commands them.
From a gaming point of view, they could be very useful for scenarios like sieges. It's very hard to defend or storm a castle whilst mounted.
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The fluff is mutable, in 5th anyone could be a knight if they tried hard enough but the army was unable to have warmachines. In 6th you could only be noble if both sides of your parentage were noble but you could have a trebuchet and the Lady wasn't offended.
For that matter, there are examples of knights fighting on foot in the 3 Bretonnian knight novels. They whine and moan about it, but do as the Baron (I think) commands them.
From a gaming point of view, they could be very useful for scenarios like sieges. It's very hard to defend or storm a castle whilst mounted.
The idea that fluff is mutable is exactly why I hate the present day Warhammer. No, I do not have to agree with their meddling in the lore nor should I just accept it. This is abominable, in 5th edition they wrote you could, and in 6th they wrote three did and were promotely killed. Good, that's when GW realized their mistake of 5E and course corrected with some finess.
For a gameplay point of view, a knight with the virtue empathy embedded in a unit of peasants is good enough for the Brets. The Brets sally on horseback as the first course of action, for that's what they do best.
This is called faction identity -- What if Empire was to change into all Demigryph riding cavalry faction with Karl Franz on Dragon only?
They could have added more mounted knight units or more dismounted peasant units -- but no, they decided to add dismounted knights. Why? Because they saw there's a hole in the roster and could only think about filling it, not realizing that hole is there as an identity of the army!
This is that city of sigmar travesty all over again...
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For me myself, I continue to like the Foot Knights. For an army thats probably one of the closest to historical medieval sources, it makes sense. Historically knights would constantly be called upon to fight on foot. They hated it, they moaned and complained, but they did it. There's a bunch of fascinating poems and sources from the medieval centuries where it gets talked about. Sometimes, the weather just doesn't do what you want. Or those fiendish enemies refuse to leave the broken ground that will break a horse.
Not to mention the Arthurian stories, which Brets are heavily based on, has the knights fighting or questing on foot just as much if not more then by horseback.
You can still have the theme of the army be "heavily armored knights and cavalry charges" and not lose that by having a single common sense/historically accurate unit fill a gap somewhere. Such as the trebuchet or peasant bowmen.
Not to mention I look forward to some fantastic hammer and anvil tactics when someone charges in against the foot knights and opens up that juicy flank or rear charge for the mounted boys.
But honestly to each their own, especially on the hodge podge of mixed messages that is warhammer lore. I often ignored a lot of the modern grimdark style stuff about Brets.
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I agree with Dazgrim, but I understand where Icmiracle is coming from. I got into table top gaming via the original Adeptus Titanicus and Space Marine games, which were set during the Horus Heresy. Well, they have changed a lot about the Heresy since then, and while I do get annoyed with that, I also recognize GW has come out with some good stuff regardless. So I keep my AT/SM1 collection in the era it was created in, and if I pick up Legion Imperialis, I'll paint things up as their modern designs are.
What I love about the Knights on foot is that it gives us more models to customize. I also love small games like Skirmish, and think these models would be great for that.
And at the very least, if you don't like the newer fluff, just pretend your game is happening later on during a much bigger battle and the knights have had their horses killed and the only way to contribute is to slog it out on foot.
I mean, this champion is AWESOME
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/4SHErxZ7YxkDAuq1.jpg)
Could easily make that my general.
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The idea that fluff is mutable is exactly why I hate the present day Warhammer. No, I do not have to agree with their meddling in the lore nor should I just accept it. This is abominable, in 5th edition they wrote you could, and in 6th they wrote three did and were promotely killed. Good, that's when GW realized their mistake of 5E and course corrected with some finess.
So you want to lock out at 3rd, which was the first edition GW posits as drawing on for TOW? In that case Bretonnia will have bombards aplenty.
Or are you arguing that there is a specific moment that you want to nail down as the true grail of Bretonnian lore?
This is called faction identity -- What if Empire was to change into all Demigryph riding cavalry faction with Karl Franz on Dragon only?
They could have added more mounted knight units or more dismounted peasant units -- but no, they decided to add dismounted knights. Why? Because they saw there's a hole in the roster and could only think about filling it, not realizing that hole is there as an identity of the army!
This is that city of sigmar travesty all over again...
So two responses:
a) don't use foot knights in your army - nobody is forcing you to do so.
b) what's your position on grail pilgrims, trebuchet etc? are they diluting the faction identify?
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To be fair each edition had its own lore which was somewhat connected but not totally. I likewise object to demi griffin knights as not very empire like but that was part of the 8th edition lore. I suppose each edition could be considered an alt universe of the others and therefore I'd advise to play in the edition which suits you best. That is 6th or 7th maybe for me
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This is called faction identity -- What if Empire was to change into all Demigryph riding cavalry faction with Karl Franz on Dragon only?
They could have added more mounted knight units or more dismounted peasant units -- but no, they decided to add dismounted knights. Why? Because they saw there's a hole in the roster and could only think about filling it, not realizing that hole is there as an identity of the army!
This is that city of sigmar travesty all over again...
So two responses:
a) don't use foot knights in your army - nobody is forcing you to do so.
b) what's your position on grail pilgrims, trebuchet etc? are they diluting the faction identify?
a) no, nobody's forcing me do add them to my army, but they are forcing said stupid, unbretonnian lore to my LORE! They don't belong in the lore at all, why have them there? Nothing but to dilute the army identity.
b). of course not! Why would it dilute their identity when their addtion are a doubling down on the snobbish Bretonnian Knights' refusal to associate with the peasants? Giving the peasants Trebuchet is a logical extension to the peasant's role of using unchivalrous weapons like the bow, it's furthering the identity, not diluting it.
And Battle Pilgrims, ah yes, WS2 T3 Ld8 infantry -- hardly a strong melee infantry unit, are they? They are madmen! Filthy peasants who chase after glory that don't belong to them, the same why the lady never bestows her blessing upon them!
The peasant units and the knight units had a very distanct and mutual line between them in 6th edition; Bretonnia in 6th edition is as morally ambigouse as any other faction -- that's why 6th is the correct edition and should have been the version to extend upon, not to detraction from.
Foot Knight is an abonimation, and if GW continue to play with the lore in the Old World as they do with Bretonnia now, I am certain the end product will not be worth my interest.
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:blush:
I for one look forward to the coming Old World, new lore and all.
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I am more annoyed with the uniform look of the Bretonnian Knights more than anything else. I can understand the reason they would move away from it from a modeling point of view. But that is a bigger ding to me than the knights on foot. But then again I don’t know what the Brets were like in 3rd.
I do wish they would bring back the Bretonnian cannon!!! I love that old model. I think it’s totally reasonable they would have some crappy imitation of the Empire one.
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I always liked the fluff where the Bretonnian navy was the mostly heavily armed with cannon, because the prohibition on blackpowder only applies on Bretonnian land.
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The peasant units and the knight units had a very distanct and mutual line between them in 6th edition; Bretonnia in 6th edition is as morally ambigouse as any other faction -- that's why 6th is the correct edition and should have been the version to extend upon, not to detraction from.
I don't know 6th edition Brets feel more a parody and "grimdark" for the sake of being "grimdark". I mean large elements felt just shy of putting in lines like "Lovely bit of filth down here".
Foot Knight for me are more problematic in the sense that it shows GW just doesn't know what to do with a Bret army. Brigands, Herrimaults, Yeoman Archers, Yeoman Retainers, or a straight up Peasant Levy would have all been more interesting options for infantry. Bret infantry forces need to play very different from other races and adding in a punchy foot unit just doesn't make sense.
Also I am not to keen on the miniatures, that 6th edition style of tons of little dumb shields always irritated me.
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It would be good if each army had a clear identity
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You mean identitarian or identity politics....
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At least a clear way of knowing what is different about each army and its playing style
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Sent the Warhammer Community pieces around the WhatsApp group my mates and I have for wargaming, none of us have much touched the hobby since 2016… Just a couple of people kept going with it into the Covid-era and then lockdown stifled them.
The new minis and the quality of the Bret sculpts has got all of them interested again. I doubt they’re the only ones and that can’t be a bad thing.
Overall, it’s nice to see The Old World get some love again after it was rather unceremoniously binned off during End Times :smile2:
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Here at Warhammer-Community.com, we have a new miniature for an upcoming Warhammer 40,000 codex to reveal, our highly anticipated first look into rules from Warhammer: The Old World, and plenty more from across the Warhammer spectrum. It’s all treats and no tricks!
More news coming this week, it's not going to be base sizes, but I hope it is.
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Foot knights are the least possible reason to be upset by any of the forthcoming reboot.
Rules preview just dropped
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/10/30/old-world-almanack-your-first-look-at-the-rules/
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/s3ZfiT9sgNSOd4Cp.jpg)
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So magic is now part of the phase it forms part of. I'm not sure I'm terribly annoyed by this. I means that magic is not a stand alone thing anymore
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Alas, I can see the danger of GW's original sin recurring: rather than once and for all fixing the various problems of the last edition, GW once again changes basic elements of the rules. In the past, that just led to new problems (some of which very obvious, except to the blind), which then may or may not be solved by Update Versions.
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It is possible I grant you but as a design choice having magic be part of the phases that it'll impact rather than seperate seems reasonable. Now it remains to be seen how it will be implemented. I'd be interested in what the first phase is going to be.
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Putting magic into the structure of the main game is borrowing from 3rd Ed 40K, which was a pretty solid ruleset.
I'm interested in seeing how dispelling and spell selection is handled.
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It does sound interesting, feels closely aligned to WFB, despite the changes - to me I’m pleased it feels like an extension of it rather than something completely new. I’ll definitely reserve full judgement until I get to see the full rule set and play.
My only significant concern reading the Community post is how accessible it will be. 4 Phases, each with 4 Sub-Phases, that’s 16 Sub-Phases to learn and keep up with. My mates and I will only be playing once every 3-6 months, so I’d rather avoid full-day games with constant rulebook checking. Plus, the game needs to sell for them to maintain interest in supporting it, something too complex strikes me as potentially damaging, but as above… The proof will be in the pudding.
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To be fair the shooting and fighting phases are the same except for the additional magic bit
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Alas, I can see the danger of GW's original sin recurring: rather than once and for all fixing the various problems of the last edition, GW once again changes basic elements of the rules. In the past, that just led to new problems (some of which very obvious, except to the blind), which then may or may not be solved by Update Versions.
This, sadly fixing problems and honing aspects to make a game play more how they conceive it should, never happen. New changes and a new set of problems.
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Complex systems are hard to get right. At least half the problem in the past was caused by a beer and pretzel rule set being played by non beer and pretzel player
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Complex systems are hard to get right. At least half the problem in the past was caused by a beer and pretzel rule set being played by non beer and pretzel player
This is the root cause of any and all warhammer rule problems.
As far as the magic phase getting cut, seems like that means there no longer is any resource management about how many dice (or cards of you're old enough) of a limited pool to put into what spell? presumably just some number to beat to get a spell off? not too thrilled if that's how it works. but it's early days.
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It might make resource management more interesting if you have a limited amount of magic dice
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It is not quite clear how the changes to magic (and artillet, for that matter) will affect the Empire - it depends on if an how they want to incorporate established lore ( I would guess: not at all). As I pointed out before:
- The TOW timeframe should affect units and game balance. In particular magic should be very limited, basically to WP. The Imperial College of Engineers of Altdorf and the Imperial School of Gunnery were established as Imperial institutions by Magnus the Pious, after the Great War. That should have some impact on the availability (of certain types) of artillery. For instance, in WFRP2 the HBVG is said to be a recent development. Most available artillery at the time and before was provided by the Dwarfs, and should have that look.
That said, the College of Engineers was created around 2000 as a purely Reikland institution, by Leonardo di Miragliano, the inventor of the Steam Tank. I have always felt that this date is far too early; around 2450/2500 would make much more sense. Likewise the Imperial School of Gunnery was based on an institution founded in Nuln in the century before the Great War. I cannot see either of them providing artillery to hostile Empire factions, at least not on a major scale (although enemies may always acquire some as contraband cor spoils of war).
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Complex systems are hard to get right. At least half the problem in the past was caused by a beer and pretzel rule set being played by non beer and pretzel player
I always found the beer and pretzel argument a weak one, games meant for casual fun don't have to have as many holes in the rules. Don't take it so seriously is more just a cop out. If I recall at the start of the 6th there was very strenuous and thought out play testing that went away because of leaks of coming rules that disturbed the corporate arm of GW.
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Basically you dismount them to stop them doing something stupid
Ha! :biggriin: :::cheers:::
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Big new multi-part kit for Tomb Kings revealed, including a huge skeleton dragon, which looks a rip off of a Vamps Zombie Dragon. Not sure it was necessary personally with the other mounts they have available, which feel a bit more thematic.
Anyhow, here’s the link:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/11/18/world-championships-preview-awaken-an-ancient-terror-from-beneath-the-sands/
Not a huge fan of the model myself, but that’s just personal taste. The accompanying video again contains lots of the old plastic kits that I’m gonna assume come out at release as well.
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I'm liking what we see from the combat phase
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A new look at special rules.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/12/11/old-world-almanack-living-saints-and-special-rules/
he Grail Knights are the epitome of the Bretonnian ideal of chivalry, warriors of immeasurable prowess and exemplars of courage, virtue, and noblesse oblige. Arguably the most devastating heavy cavalry plying their trade in the Old World, these are literally the last living saints your average devotee of the Dark Gods wants to meet out on the battlefield.
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/BXY9kJy0uVaigJAM.jpg)
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/MHZTXjIEIFqIa29Y.jpg)
This is a Universal Special Rule (USR), just one of about 75 in the game. This seems like a lot at first glance, but this new system simply collates a lot of special rules that once lived in several places – things like Psychology, unit coherence, or Monster rules.
Close Order is a good example. In the past, you just had to know that units that weren’t skirmishers or fast cavalry operated in ranks and files – what we now know as close order. Now every unit has all its formations listed as a USR, calling this out and clarifying. Likewise, Stomp attacks were once listed under the Monster rules, but now as a USR it’s possible to be more deliberate with which monsters have the rule, and which don’t. And it’s also easier to remember you’ve got a Stomp in the first place!
Beyond USRs, there are also rules that only govern units from a single army, which are collected in the relevant army lists, and even a couple of rules that are unique to a particular unit. These are listed on individual profiles. With that in mind, let’s find out exactly what our Grail Knights are capable of.
Special Rules for the Lady
The Blessings of the Lady is an army-wide rule for the Kingdom of Bretonnia. Instead of rolling to see who goes first, a Bretonnian army may instead kneel to pray for the protection of the Lady of the Lake. This grants a 6+ Ward Save (invulnerable save) against any wounds suffered, or 5+ against wounds of Strength 5 or higher. Of course, this blessing can be lost by besmirching one’s own honour – either when a unit flees, or a character declines a challenge.
Close Order we have covered already. Counter Charge is effective against Monsters, Cavalry, and Chariots – if our Grail Knights are charged by units such as these from a longer distance than their attacker’s Movement characteristic, they can spur their horses D3+1” in response – both parties count as charging, and Initiative then comes into play.
Finest Warhorses is another Bretonnian-only rule – such is the quality of these noble steeds, you may reroll any 1s when you Charge, Flee, or Pursue before discarding any dice. If their First Charge of the game makes contact, the target unit loses its rank bonus until the next round of combat. Lance Formation allows Bretonnian Knights to form their signature devastating charge formation – offering them a choice between this and Close Order.
Living Saints is a great example of a unique special rule – these Grail Knights are such mighty warriors, that they can individually issue Challenges to enemy characters. Goblin Bosses watch out! Swiftstride adds a further 3” to your maximum charge range, and +D6” to any given charge, flight, or pursuit.
Finally, the Grail Vow provides further benefits: they are unaffected by Fear and Terror, they fight with Magical Attacks, and the first time they fail a Break test, they may automatically Fall Back in Good Order.
On top of that, you can load up on even more abilities with Magic Items and a Knightly Virtue for the Grail Guardian who leads them, or a Magic Banner. Grant him the Virtue of the Impetuous Knight to extend your charge range – at the risk of Impetuously charging towards the foe, the Dragon Slaying Sword to make him a Monster Slayer, or the Blazing Banner to add Flaming Attacks.
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/VMRMnMTZieFivb6s.jpg)
Universal Special Rules provide the variety, character, and granularity you need for a realm as violent and varied as the World of Legend. Elite units such as Grail Knights generally have the most USRs, but even the lowlier likes of Bretonnian Squires have a few tricks up their sleeves: Move Through Cover, Open Order, Peasantry, Skirmishers, and Vanguard – but to find out what these do, you’ll have to complete your Questing Vow of buying the Warhammer: The Old World rulebook when it goes on pre-order some time in the new year…
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Seems decent and having all the special rules in one place is a good idea. Thay haven't rebased their models to be the right size though
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I think a paragraph or two are missing above. One thing there caught my eye:
With heavy armour, shields, and barded Bretonnian Warhorses, they have a save of 3+ [...]
So that would be 5+ for heavy armour, 4+ with shields, and 3+ with barding. So no armour save from being horseback? Something I suggested maybe a decade ago, so I guess I must like this ruling. Makes cavalry a little bit more vulnerable.
Also noted the lower cost of champions and standard bearers. Or were all members of the command group equally costed in the 8th ed? Can't remember. It will be interesting to see what exact rules the command group has. E.g. have we heard what the Musician does? IIRC, his rules were not mentioned in the combat resolution overview.
Looking further back the reveals, I think the Magic system is still very much up in the air. There was talk of casting individual spells, but little bit else. I can't get the sense and feel of it, based on the reveals. Like how many spells do the mages have, do they get to choose them or are they random, how many can they cast per turn, how many individual lores there are and what is available for each faction, etc.?
-Z
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Looking further back the reveals, I think the Magic system is still very much up in the air. There was talk of casting individual spells, but little bit else. I can't get the sense and feel of it, based on the reveals. Like how many spells do the mages have, do they get to choose them or are they random, how many can they cast per turn, how many individual lores there are and what is available for each faction, etc.?
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On magic, I think we can infer the following:
- Wizards will get spells equal to their magic level.
- Spells will be generated using d6 and rolling on a table, with the option to swap one spell for the signature spell of your lore.
- 8 lores in the core book, plus army specific lores. We have seen Tb Kings have their own lore. It is probable that Wood Elves will also get one, ditto Slaanesh, Nurgle and Tzeentch.
- Less certainly, wizards will be able to cast at least one spell per phase.
- Level 1 and 3 wizards will never see play, because the casting/dispel system incentivises high level wizards.
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To be fair level 3 wizards never saw play anyway and nor did level one wizards except as a scroll caddy
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Finally a reveal on army comp.
Building Your Army
As they have always been in real life, armies in Warhammer: The Old World are selected according to a system of ‘points’. Games do not have recommended points values – as long as you’ve got a General and three Units, you have an army. However, 2,000 points per side will make for a substantial two-to-three-hour game – perhaps involving 100 or more models each.
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/yhjETBvbqMIEatQz.jpg)
Every faction* will have a Grand Army upon release – a balanced list of options from which you can pick a wide variety of units chosen from four categories shown above. There’s usually one page of stipulations, but the full range of units from each faction is available for selection. Take, for example, the Grand Army of Bretonnia:
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/vFSHYrHdhWf3L5rd.jpg)
There’s a lot here to unpack. Firstly, you can’t overload your army with powerful wizards and mighty heroes – Prophetesses and Barons are a rare occurrence, even in the armies of the king. There is, however, the flexibility to take characters of lower ranks: Paladins, Damsels, and Sergeants at Arms enjoy no such limits – and you’ll certainly want at least one Paladin for that free Battle Standard Bearer upgrade.
Otherwise, as long as 25% of your roster (500 points in a 2,000-point game) is spent on units listed as Core, and includes one unit of Knights of the Realm and another of peasant levies, army selection is very flexible. As you’d expect, Grail Knights and Field Trebuchets aren’t such a common sight, but at 38 points per model, +7 per champion, musician, and standard, you can just about cram two units of six Grail Knights into a 2,000-point army – perfect for any Duke who prefers to keep every single one of his eggs right there in one decorative basket.
Talking of Dukes, we should probably take a look at their rules:
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/y6WJoadTtEc7owqD.jpg)
Grognards may remember multiple ranks of heroes from previous editions of Warhammer Fantasy Battle, and those delineations are still present and correct. A Duke is a mighty warrior indeed – no time for feasting, issuing edicts, or sprawling decorously across your throne for these guys: every Bretonnian General is tremendously skilled at arms and as strong as a Troll.
Options abound. You’ll note a choice of weaponry – these are taken from a larger menu of arms in the main rulebook. A morning star adds +1 Strength and -1AP in the first round of combat, and a great weapon doubles those bonuses but makes you Strike Last. A lance adds similar bonuses, though only on the charge, while a shield improves your armour save by +1.
We’ll gloss over those Knightly Virtues for now – suffice it to say there are two pages of ‘em, and they’re great. But wouldn’t you like to know about the mounts? Well, guess who’s back…
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/yeDeTtNXlrneexAL.jpg)
Yes, your Duke or one very fancy Baron is entitled to ride a Hippogryph captured as a chick and trained from birth as one of the fiercest mounts in the Old World. They’re fast, strong, and lethal in combat, and they fight independently of their rider but combine profiles, making a single model that’s much tougher and can dole out a lot of attacks
At the other end of the martial scale are the Men-At-Arms. What they lack in combat prowess, they also lack in bravery, equipment, and chivalric acumen. On the other hand, they’re very cheap.
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/rfmgLANdoU1elf3R.jpg)
The Grail Monk functions as a kind of second champion, whose Blessed Triptych will inevitably prove very useful – it grants the whole unit Stubborn, so the first time they are required to take a Break Test they don’t need to risk a dice roll. Instead, they Fall Back in Good Order. Combined with Shieldwall (which allows them to Give Ground instead of Falling Back) they’re capable of stealing the impetus from even the heaviest cavalry.
Armies of Infamy
The Grand Army is not the only way to select a force, however. Each faction will gradually gain access to Armies of Infamy, which provide often wildly different ways to muster a force. As a Bretonnian Lord, you might wish to enter exile – especially as it means you can then take forbidden Border Princes Bombards into battle, while those who really just enjoy Knights and more Knights may prefer an Errantry Crusade.
There’s no Old World Almanack next Monday – it’s Christmas Day after all, but check in on the 26th for something of an off-white Christmas…
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This has also been floating around for a few days now, and seems pretty much confirmed to be a leak of the coming Tomb King army box.
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1146118737729167470/1185615914339676292/Screenshot_20231214_133207_Chrome.jpg?ex=659041dd&is=657dccdd&hm=6737968074b1f0d68c167b6b8034811e20f59389dce00d4568626b36dba516a8&)
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I'm reasonably liking a lot of it. The combination of slots and percentages seems to work well. Lots of heros will be possible, which could play into the new magic system.
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Sigh, same damn TK core sculpts....
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You not a fan of the sculpts. I don't play TK but they look decent ranked up.
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Two main thoughts on the Tomb King box.
1) Wow, that is a lot of core. Like, a mountain of it. Really surprised to see nothing that special there. I would have put in some kind of neat, sexy unit to really get people hooked. Tomb King have a ton of really neat units, and all it is, is a bunch of bones.
2) Except for the two new hero/lord (Both of which come in the same box), its all old sculpts. I think this is how most of the game is going to go. 90% old units, a small handful of new stuff. And mostly heroes.
I'm thinking the Bret box is going to be similar. I've seen rumours that its likely 32 peasant bowmen, 32 peasant archers, maybe 12 knights of the realm, the new Paladin model and maybe 10 of the new foot knights.
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I am surprised by the box for a couple of reasons. One its a huge box and is going to come with a steep price tag, which to me feels like an entry barrier for new players. Second, you only need a couple of core units to field the army (assuming the Tomb Kings qualifications are similar to the Bretonnian) yet all these extras are included in the set. I think it would have been better for GW to release smaller army starters and then let players decide what next to buy. Maybe there is a steep initial cost GW wants to get over and they is why they are pushing so much product at once, I don't know. The army does look great, I can see some being excited to get so much at once, but I just wouldnt be surprised it comes with a steep price tag and that might hurt the TK release.
It doesnt bother me that these are old models as I think the models look great anyway. Maybe not to the degree we are seeing from Sigmar now, but old Fantasy has a charm about it and I think players do miss that look, so why bother re-making basic regiments if you don't have to.
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I am surprised by the box for a couple of reasons. One its a huge box and is going to come with a steep price tag, which to me feels like an entry barrier for new players. Second, you only need a couple of core units to field the army (assuming the Tomb Kings qualifications are similar to the Bretonnian) yet all these extras are included in the set. I think it would have been better for GW to release smaller army starters and then let players decide what next to buy. Maybe there is a steep initial cost GW wants to get over and they is why they are pushing so much product at once, I don't know. The army does look great, I can see some being excited to get so much at once, but I just wouldnt be surprised it comes with a steep price tag and that might hurt the TK release.
It doesnt bother me that these are old models as I think the models look great anyway. Maybe not to the degree we are seeing from Sigmar now, but old Fantasy has a charm about it and I think players do miss that look, so why bother re-making basic regiments if you don't have to.
A number of older starter boxess were fairly large. Unlike say 40K or Age of Sigmar where you can have units of 5 or 10 and consider that large, most units will need a unit strength of 20. I also suspect that like a starter box, it will be cheaper than say collecting units individually.
Two main thoughts on the Tomb King box.
1) Wow, that is a lot of core. Like, a mountain of it. Really surprised to see nothing that special there. I would have put in some kind of neat, sexy unit to really get people hooked. Tomb King have a ton of really neat units, and all it is, is a bunch of bones.
2) Except for the two new hero/lord (Both of which come in the same box), its all old sculpts. I think this is how most of the game is going to go. 90% old units, a small handful of new stuff. And mostly heroes.
I'm thinking the Bret box is going to be similar. I've seen rumours that its likely 32 peasant bowmen, 32 peasant archers, maybe 12 knights of the realm, the new Paladin model and maybe 10 of the new foot knights.
Our luck, that will be the case with most of the armies. I know with Cities of Sigmar alone, a bunch of units have disappeared like it was in Stallin ruled USSR and I suspect they are going strait into this. Pitty as some units need new sculps. In Tomb Kings, I don't remember is the Ustabi had a physical model armed with bows but they had that option in 8th eddition (same with Bone Giant). It would be interesting to have those options available in the new edition.
I also have to wonder how much of this is spoiler free. We have seen several new looks to units, and a return of an older unit for Brettonia. However, I wonder what is left to show off. Will they include units from the games, or will they give models to units they had mentioned in previous edditiosn there was no physical mini for?
Every faction* will have a Grand Army upon release – a balanced list of options from which you can pick a wide variety of units chosen from four categories shown above. There’s usually one page of stipulations, but the full range of units from each faction is available for selection. Take, for example, the Grand Army of Bretonnia:
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/vFSHYrHdhWf3L5rd.jpg)
I have to wonder what grand army is; is this just the name of the starter box or something to start of what an older definition of Grand army (Helms Deep baby!).
I also like this as it is a mix of older editions. They seem to be looking at what made them work and combined them. Also the fact that you can have a few minis and have a game regardless of points is good for new players. Points will most likely come into play when dealing with guys that poured too much into the hobby like me and have an army big enough to handle a Chaos Invasion/be the Chaos Invasion.
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This is interesting. The first book set in the Old World since Fantasy died is coming. Couple of bits that look interesting for us...
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/12/20/lords-of-the-lance-is-the-first-new-novel-for-the-world-of-legend/
Warhammer: The Old World is nearly here, bringing back the Bretonnians, Tomb Kings, and many more factions from the Warhammer Fantasy Battles setting. This isn’t the End Times, though – the von Carstein dynasty is currently as dead as can be, the Colleges of Magic have not yet been established, and the Skaven menace has vanished into myth… but the World of Legend is no less dangerous, and the first you’ll get to read about it is in Graham McNeill’s Lords of the Lance.
Confirmed no College, shout out to no vamps.
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Surely there are other vampires other than the von Carsteins. The van Bloodsuckers for example.
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Surely there are other vampires other than the von Carsteins. The van Bloodsuckers for example.
THe main ones were srigori (very monsterous looking, like Nasfaruatu took all the protine shakes that day), Lamia (sexy seductress vampires), Von Carstine (Charming Dracula types), Blood Dragons (martial knights looking for a Dragon) and Nhkar (Orlock looking magic users). They were a thing in older editions but the focus near the ned was on the Von Carstine bloodline. A return and maybe some units based on them might be fun.
On other thoughts popping into my skull at the moment, if Brettonia is a sampling of whats to come, how do you think this will be for other army units like the Empire?
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There's going to be a ton of hardback rulebooks on Ebay.
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HUGE reveal today guys. Get hyped, its almost upon us.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/12/26/warhammer-the-old-world-the-tomb-kings-of-khemri-revealed/
Fun fact: Boxing Day gets its name from an ancient necromantic practice, in which the skeletons of the dead were removed from their coffins ready for reanimation*. Which is appropriate, because here at Warhammer we have more than a few skeletons ready to take out of our closet.
It’s the Tomb Kings of Khemri (and a bunch of guys in some metal trousers)!
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/lOJqN3fqZenUIpR7.jpg)
There is no single launch box for Warhammer: The Old World. Instead, there are two separate – and massive – core army boxes, each containing a full 1,250-point army with dozens of all-plastic miniatures each. On top of that, you get a complete 352-page hardback Warhammer: The Old World rulebook, a four-page reference sheet, 20 D6 dice, one six-sided scatter dice, three weapon templates, two classic red plastic measuring sticks, and transfer sheets.
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/7DZPBuqDVf0nxbfV.jpg)
The Liche Priests have exhumed a horde of 93 Tomb Kings miniatures, including the magnificent new Liche Priest on Necrolith Bone Dragon (which can additionally build a Tomb King on foot, or be built instead as a Tomb King on Bone Dragon). The rest is made up of enough classic kits to create an army fit for Settra himself – 40 Skeleton Warriors, 32 Skeleton archers, 16 Skeleton Horsemen, and three Skeleton Chariots.
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/IdfnK3fQdK8IgsfA.jpg)
Raise your banners to the Lady with the Kingdom of Bretonnia box, which contains 76 miniatures. The resplendent new Lord on Royal Pegasus can be built as a Duke or a Baron. They’re backed up by a lance formation of 12 Bretonnian Knights of the Realm, 36 Bretonnian Men-at-Arms, 24 Peasant Bowmen with two defence stakes, three Pegasus Knights, and a Kingdom of Bretonnian Transfer sheet with 176 transfers.
Warhammer: The Old World – Fantasy Battles in the World of Legend Rulebook
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/Q8D4MfDp6AxKMqAQ.jpg)
The rulebook will also be available separately. This weighty 352-page tome features over 70 pages of background on the World of Legend, plus Core and Advanced rules for the game, an explanation of the Winds of Magic and rules for casting spells, a gallery of armies painted by the ’Eavy Metal studio, and rules for building armies and setting up your battlefields. It will also be released as a digital ePub version for easy access to rules on the go.
Forces of Fantasy and Ravening Hordes
Rules for all nine factions in the game will be available at launch, in one of two tomes covering the forces of Good and Evil – Forces of Fantasy and Ravening Hordes respectively.
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/ZRGv2Te1KPWm4UBk.jpg)
Forces of Fantasy is a 192-page book available in hardback and ePub formats covering five factions: the Dwarfen Mountain Holds, the Empire of Man, the Kingdom of Bretonnia, the Wood Elf Realms, and the High Elf Realms.
Each army gets an introduction, a gallery of miniatures, a grand army composition list, a complete set of unit profiles (so you’ll have no need for a separate army book to play), special rules, magic items, and unique spells.
Ravening Hordes contains all your Evil factions – it’s a 160-page hardback book or ePub containing similar material for the Orc and Goblin Tribes, the Warriors of Chaos, the Beastmen Brayherds, and the Tomb Kings of Khemri.
You’ll need the main Warhammer: The Old World rulebook to use either book.
Arcane Journals
In addition to these hefty hardback books, there are the Arcane Journals – softback books for each faction that expand it all out with history, heraldry, maps, special characters (including a certain undead emperor), magic items, spells, a historical scenario, and thematic Armies of Infamy which let you select armies of very different compositions.
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/9nmOWCAu0Fq51Z8H.jpg)
For instance, Arcane Journal: Kingdoms of Bretonnia has rules for armies of Bretonnian Exiles and Errantry Crusades, while Arcane Journal: Tomb Kings of Khemri provides the Nehekharan Royal Host and the Mortuary Cults. It is important to know that you don’t require an Arcane Journal to play your chosen faction – all the units and army rules are contained in Ravening Hordes or Forces of Fantasy – but they do provide a trove of extra options and extra depth for discerning generals.
The Arcane Journals for the Kingdom of Bretonnia and Tomb Kings of Khemri will arrive at launch alongside their army releases, with those for other factions following in the future.
Tomb Kings of Khemri Miniatures
Not wanting to be outdone by the self-important short-lived mortals of Bretonnia, the venal and power-hungry royalty of Khemri have a handful of other new miniatures up their sandy sleeves.
Nekaph, Emissary of Settra
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/EgJM5eOHXFdfanqd.jpg)
Settra the Imperishable has accumulated a truly prodigious number of epithets and achievements over the long centuries of his un-life, and this seemingly endless list of titles and victories is recounted in full by his loyal servant Nekaph before each battle – luckily, animated skeletons are very patient. Armed with the enchanted Flail of Conquered Kings, Nekaph, Emissary of Settra, pulverises those who refuse to kneel before his immortal liege.
Battle Standard Bearer
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/gDi06nLfqrAPpgfx.jpg)
Royal Heralds are the personal champions of Nehekharan royalty, mighty combatants in life who retain their strength in undeath despite their withered forms. The greatest of these champions often bear banners featuring the personal heraldry of their master, inspiring the deathly legions that accompany them into battle.
Tomb Swarm
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/WIi77lbA2plhxNTj.jpg)
The Liche Priests of the Mortuary Cults are well-versed in the dark arts of necromancy, and they bolster the armies of their masters with writhing Tomb Swarms. Comprised of the reanimated corpses of scorpions, scarabs, and all the other critters that infest the necropolises of Khemri, these shifting, swirling masses can overpower well-trained combatants with a storm of bites and stings.
On top of all of these, a full range of classic Khemri miniatures will be returning to bolster the forces featured in this article, with much more to come in the future.
The Bretonnians and Tomb Kings are just the first two of nine factions arriving in the World of Legend. The rules for the other seven will be available at launch in Forces of Fantasy and Ravening Hordes – and look out for miniature releases for the other seven in due course.
Don’t worry if you’re more of a follower of Hashut or interpreter of the Great Plan – Legacy army list PDFs for the other seven factions from Warhammer Fantasy Battles will be available shortly after launch.
All that’s left now is to reveal the pre-order date for this avalanche in the World of Legend. We’ve got a suspicion it might be quite soon – keep an eye on Warhammer Community to find out exactly when.
* At least according to Settra. We don’t like to argue with him.
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Quite the new info there. An interesting turn of events.
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I lke the book ideas. The smaller ones are reminiscent of 6th and 7th eddition books, and I suspect will be cheaper, but the larger texxtbook size variants would have all the armies of good and evil respectively, so you could have your allies there as well. Empire with Tebuchets. Brettonia with Slayers.
am also just eyeballing here, but it looks like the starter boxes might have a good 1500 to 2000 points of minies in them
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Well, after some thought I am out. I am glad they brought back WFB and hope peeps enjoy it, but I am not falling for this crappy business model. I already have most of the Bretonnian and Tomb King models anyway, but if I didn't, and wanted to get into multiple armies, each starter box,which I already think is going to cost a lot of money, is going to include a massive hardback rulebook I do not want, and are being charged for. I don't know if subsequent starter armies will have the book, I can see it being either way, but hope GW comes to their senses to the benefit of the players. I mean, how many players only collect one army?!?
Then its the same model used for 30k, which killed my interest when they released the loyalist and traitor books (along with minimum unit sizes of 20 models for some units). Another set of giant books for opposing forces. So if I did want to collect a 'good' army, and a 'evil' army, I have to buy another set of giant books. Maybe its cheaper for them this way, as opposed to releasing 9 army books, but its just too much for me to justify buying. And if they are going to release pdfs or something for rules for Skaven and Chaos for veteran players, they certainly could have just released a Ravening Hordes mk III. GW is just exploiting a system here. I know there will be a peep here who will say 'I like what GW is doing' but I suspect this game will be about as popular as 30k is because the entry to play for new players is really high. It will no doubt draw in a bunch of veteran players initially, but then what? I don't see many new players dropping the amount of cash that seems to be needed to get started. This is my theory anyway, as GW seems to replicate how it releases things across different games.
I think I am just tapped out on GW too I guess. I am done with 40k forever (not with what I own, just future purchases), and I already have a ton of WFB minis. I can't see my buying anymore.
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I lke the book ideas. The smaller ones are reminiscent of 6th and 7th eddition books, and I suspect will be cheaper, but the larger texxtbook size variants would have all the armies of good and evil respectively, so you could have your allies there as well. Empire with Tebuchets. Brettonia with Slayers.
am also just eyeballing here, but it looks like the starter boxes might have a good 1500 to 2000 points of minies in them
I believe they have roughly 1250 points
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Based on 1250 points per box - armies will be about the size they were in 6th edition.
For those of the old guard who love 4th/5th edition - the Bret box contains about 1700 points with no magic items.
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Based on 1250 points per box - armies will be about the size they were in 6th edition.
For those of the old guard who love 4th/5th edition - the Bret box contains about 1700 points with no magic items.
Wasn't 5th edition the one called Hero Hammer?
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Yes. There were some fairly ridiculous hero/magic item combos, as I recall.
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I avoided that and started at 6th
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Turn 1: Fly High
Turn 2: Destroy all the enemy warmachines
Every game
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"Pre-orders" for a lot of items starts Saturday January 6th ...
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/12/31/sunday-preview-prepare-to-enter-the-world-of-legend/
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It just occurred to me that I need to contact a local hobby store and see if they are taking "pre-orders".
And if I'm going to by at a minimum one of the starter army boxes, I'm going to need to decide which starter box soon. :icon_eek: :icon_lol:
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Same boat GP! I figure I'll pick one up, and I'm split between expanding my current small Bret army, or starting a new Tomb King one. One of the few armies I don't actually have a legal force for.
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I'm starting to lean towards Tomb Kings myself. However, if I go that route, then I'll pick up the Bret book, too.
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I'll be totally honest, I've fallen away from physical books so hard. They used to be my top favorite thing about the hobby. Leafing through the lore and art. Then once I got into 40k it just kinda... sucked? I'd pick up an army book, get like 2 games in, and then a new edition was out. Or just as bad, a major errata or update would come out and essentially invalidate all the rules in it.
I actually REALLY like that GW updates rules and the game now. It makes playing the game so much better and keeps things in balance. But makes buying physical books kind of pointless.
I'll probably do like I usually do and pick up a copy of all the books online from... places. If and when I need rules, digital copies are better anyway. I make all my lists in word and its easier to flip back and forth on tabs.
I'm more likely to buy a book thats just lore then I am to buy an army book these days.
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Prices have been leaked after today's announcement, suggesting something in line with the costs of Necromunda. Which makes some sense. In the region of $500 Aus for the starter. Would only be palatable with a third party discount for me.
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Starting to rebase my empire army for one of the earliest Valencia’s. So will only need the books and magic cards
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Seems the new Bretonnian Knights of the Realm on Foot are going to be sold 20 to a box.
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I have been painting up the plastic lord on horse, and the mount at least is covered in Karl Franz symbology. As is the War Altar, which has previously been pictured. Are GW going to ignore that sort of thing when they re-release old minis? I cannot imagine they will resculpt minis simply to remove references to Mr. Franz.....
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The Goonhammer guys have been given review copies and boxes to have a go at the game early. They've written up a bunch of articles on how the game runs that people might find interesting.
https://www.goonhammer.com/warhammer-return-to-the-old-world/
https://www.goonhammer.com/old-world-new-tricks/
https://www.goonhammer.com/warhammer-the-old-world-expanding-on-the-tomb-kings-starter-box/
https://www.goonhammer.com/warhammer-the-old-world-expanding-on-the-bretonnian-starter-box/
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I have been painting up the plastic lord on horse, and the mount at least is covered in Karl Franz symbology. As is the War Altar, which has previously been pictured. Are GW going to ignore that sort of thing when they re-release old minis? I cannot imagine they will resculpt minis simply to remove references to Mr. Franz.....
I'd explain it away with some generic Empire phrase. But let's see what GW does in the Empire book, if indeed they will do anything about it.
-Z
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This is an interesting article to get some design perspective.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/01/05/old-world-almanack-designer-round-table-on-the-past-and-future-of-a-stone-cold-classic/
This in particular caught my eye;
This is billed as a new game, rather than a continuation of Warhammer Fantasy Battle. What does this mean?
Jonathan: Essentially, we broke off from Warhammer Fantasy Battle and chose to go in a different direction. Warhammer: The Old World is still recognisably Warhammer, and still recognisable to players who play and remember that game – it’s got that nostalgia – but it’s something new, insofar as we’re able to do new things with rules and miniatures.
Rob: I’d go as far as to say it’s less about the game and more about the framing. Warhammer Fantasy Battle was a window into a certain time period in that setting, and the Old World shifts the frame to a different era.
It uses a lot of the same motifs – imagery, artwork, older painted miniatures, and so on – and there has been a lot of work done to ensure those things resonate with people who loved Warhammer Fantasy Battle. But there’s new framing – in areas like heraldry, you’ll see new takes on Bretonnian imagery and symbolism, leaning more heavily into areas we couldn’t before. The game itself is very familiar because it is supposed to be nostalgic, but there are a lot of new developments here too.
There's also some really interesting chatter, that when GW went into the archives to get the molds and masters for the different units (To decide what would be metal and what would be upgraded to forgeworld resin) they also found a bunch of unreleased masters. All kinds of units that were designed and made but ultimately not released. Apparently GW is planning to hang onto them and start producing small quantities. Either as made to order, or store anniversary type models. One thats been called out specifically is an old dwarf tank made years ago that was made, even painted up as an example piece, but never released cause they didn't think it fit with the army at the time.
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Ash (Guerrilla Miniature Gaming) browses through the Empire list:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAnA144-9Vw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAnA144-9Vw)
This is billed as a new game, rather than a continuation of Warhammer Fantasy Battle.
It's a bit funny they want to hang on to the 'new game' idea.
We've seen pretty big changes over editions: 3rd to 4th, 5th to 6th, and 7th to 8th. 5th to 6th was probably the biggest, because the whole magic system was overhauled and the feeling of the game moved towards armies rather than heroes.
And some rules in TOW seem to come from Warhammer Ancient Battles.
I'd say TOW is clearly within this continuum, but because of the mess of the 8th ed they're looking more into the older editions to go forward.
It's the 9th official edition of Warhammer Fantasy, so why not call it one? Because they want to frame it differently. And I do like that the setting is brought forward in the name.
-Z
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NO PIKES ::heretic:: ::heretic:: ::heretic:: ::heretic:: ::heretic:: ::heretic:: ::heretic::
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So what are you waiting for? Get a list written up (either 1250 to match those in the Army Boxes) or 2000 for what the Community Articles seem to imply as a full game and lets get back to The Old World.
I'm waiting for my army lists to arrive as I'm not an influencer.
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According to Ash, the TOW developers are the same team which developped the Middleearth strategy game. As per his analysis, TOW is rather a mix of said ME game and mainly 6th. Edition WHFB. Also, a number of rules are taken from AoS and other GW games. So, he concludes, TOW is farther away from 8th. Edition then from 6th./7th.
Imho, living with this game (WHFB) on and off since it's 3rd.edition and having seen only 2 test games of TOW on utube, it's an edition which I will like.
And most probably over 6th. which I liked most so far ( didn't like 8th very much though).
So I am very optimistic and work on all my former armies ( which are quite a few ) and I also setup 2 new ones : Tomb Kings , which I missed out in 8th. And a special version of an Empire Army for Osterlund.... :biggriin:
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Oh interesting mountain miniatures did a read through of the empire section here
https://youtu.be/Z2ujXVgvUvU?si=pyDOJ52hokaWMTm_
Looks like we have cheap state troops and the option to upgrade 1 unit per 1000 points to veterans, who get ws4 instead of it being swordsmen only.
Crossbows are a point cheaper than handgunners.
Pistoliers have impetuous, and have a 50:50 on charging every turn, but are otherwise as good.
Steam tanks are 10 W and only test steam points on moving. They have the option to take a would or stop if they roll a 1 on movement or charging.
Demigriff knights are in, and good.
There's a hero version of the Knight Templar as well.
Captains and Generals prevent panic in their unit.
Wizards are good, priests of Sigmar and Ulric and both in the list, but are LD 7 not 8. They test LD to cast their prayers.
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Why would you ever take Handgunners if Crossbows are a point cheaper?
There must be something interesting in the BRB Crossbow and Handgun descriptions. Otherwise its very bad balancing. Maybe the Crossbows don't get AP at all, and the proportional rarity of AP makes the Handguns that much better? Still, the range and S of Crossbows makes them a stronger pick, I think.
Overall, what I've seen thus far makes me think the designers have nailed the basic rules, but army lists are all over the place. This game probably needs a couple of balance patches to make it work. The list building possibilities seem to allow some of the worst, most unfun 8th ed builds. A near full Gyrocopter list for the Dwarfs, total shooting/avoidance for the Wood Elfs.
An interesting thing about the game examples we've seen thus far: people tend to play with 8th ed armies. Not because they represent what works in the game, but mostly because these players seem to have the 8th ed models & army composition. It will be interesting to see what the old guard - with 6th/7th ed army compositions - and the new competitive players bring on the table. We've seen nothing yet. :)
-Z
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Why would you ever take Handgunners if Crossbows are a point cheaper?
There must be something interesting in the BRB Crossbow and Handgun descriptions. Otherwise its very bad balancing. Maybe the Crossbows don't get AP at all, and the proportional rarity of AP makes the Handguns that much better? Still, the range and S of Crossbows makes them a stronger pick, I think.
Handguns are S4 AP -1 Armourbane 1 while Crossbows are armourbane 2.
Both can move and shoot now, but it's at -2. So I guess the turn 1 range difference isn't as bad as it was though I'd still argue it's bad enough to not want to take hangunners. It's endlessly frustrating that we had a solution to this in 6th edition with the first shoot rules but it's just been dropped since then instead of being applied to all handguns.
Worth adding that archers have warbows rather than longbows, so are restricted to 24" range as well.
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Pistoliers have impetuous, and have a 50:50 on charging every turn, but are otherwise as good.
Urgh. While that's lore appropriate, it ruins the use of the unit. They don't have any means of shooting their pistols in combat so on top of the annoyance of charging something they shouldn't they are exchanging their primary shooting attack for an inferior close combat attack.
Looks like Outriders might be the better option, especially as they can move an shoot now.
I realise some of these niggles are just the first blush coming off the army lists but it really feels like it needs another pass. I wonder if there's an oppurtunity with future arcane journals or whether they've already been set in stone?
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AP is a lot better than Armour Bane though so it might be worth the extra point.
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Yeah, the reviewer was so sad when he saw that Pistoliers had impetuous. They also have skirmish, so they have a 360 degree charge arc.
Empire, unlike most armies, doesn't seem to a have a special rule when fighting with plain hand weapons, so Swordsmen might be out in favour of halbardiers.
In the test games, they explained that they read the rules for spears / supporting attacks as "models that stepped up cannot make attacks", and that applies even to models which stepped from the 3rd rank to the second rank, so wound will remove a model from the front rank, and also prevent the spearman behind it from attacking as well.
Flails are Str+2 first round, 2AP every round RAW, so flagies might be real good. They are T3 this time, and can be joined by the priests.
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In the test games, they explained that they read the rules for spears / supporting attacks as "models that stepped up cannot make attacks", and that applies even to models which stepped from the 3rd rank to the second rank, so wound will remove a model from the front rank, and also prevent the spearman behind it from attacking as well.
I'm going to be interested on the detail on that - was that from the offical warcom game or youtubers? Best I can tell from vids of the rulebook is step forward says "A model cannot fight during a phase which it stepped forward into the fighting rank, regardless of iniative"
One read of that would be that technically a model that has gone 3rd to 2nd hasn't stepped forward to the fighting rank (which is defined as only the first rank).
I realise this is hair-splitting, but I find it hard to beleive they made spears so useless (and complicated!)
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I think it is likely that the full second rank can fight with spears.
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I'd be surprised if commandant's view wasn't accurate regarding spears.
Yet then again ... this is GW. :icon_wink: :icon_lol:
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I think it is likely that the full second rank can fight with spears.
Well, our friends at GW make it again a bit complicated to find a clear answer. However, it is possible if you switch between the Empire Armylist and the rulebook :
Armylist : Statestroops can be equipped with Thrusting Spears . Thrusting Spears give the Special rule "Support attacks".
Rulebook : page 145 ; Now in TOW, that all models in the same rank of which some models have b2b contact to the enemy model(s) will attack (back if attacked and survived). It is assumed, that those models in the fighting rank which have no direct b2b contact to an enemy model would still be able to swarm around it and attack. Hence in TOW the complete frontrank fights, no mattter how many models have actaully b2b contact. As lang as at least some have...
Supporting Attack :
each model in a subsequent rank which has base2base contact to a model in the fighting rank ( usually the complete 2nd. rank ) , can also attack....(Page 145 of the RB including illustration ).
Note though that support attacks can only be made to the front of the unit, not to the flanks or the rear of the unit.
StepUp : There's no stepup rule in TOW comparable to 8th.edition WHFB. The Stepup rule in TOW says, that models stepping up cannot fight in the same turn as they are busy to climb over the fallen and bring their weopnry in position to fight in the next turn.
Now imho , if in a fight the attacker fights with the higher Ini with the first rank of the unit which is supported by a second rank by begin of the fight, he actually fights with the first two ranks and would have to remove all models in both ranks in order not to get any kind of retaliation.
Say both ranks contain 10 models in total and the attacker causes 8 wounds of which 2 were saved , both ranks loose together 6 models out of 10. Now the defender should be able to attack with the 4 remaining models...which can be the command group and one other model.
Those could now fight back. Only after this , combat resolution should be calculated.
If the same attack happened to a unit without "Support attacks by adequate weapons", the fighting ( 1st.) rank could be wiped out by the attacker in the first round of combat and the defending unit has no models left to retailiate/fight back. So CR is done immediately.
I have to confess, that I couldn't read all related paragraphs of the RB . so it might be, there are some important sentences missing. Hence take the above as my current interpretation of the rules in question.
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detachments also seem to become available for other armies too :icon_cry:
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detachments also seem to become available for other armies too :icon_cry:
It makes perfect sense that ordered societies like High Elfs, Dwarfs and Tomg Kings can train their armies to use detachment tactics. So fluff-wise this is a very sensible thing.
But yes, it raises questions about the identity and strengths of The Empire.
-Z
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he first wave of Warhammer: The Old World out for real this Saturday – a glittering Bretonnian host arrayed against the remorseless undead legions of Khemri. But these aren’t the only soldiers, knights, constructs, or nobles coming to the two sides; there are many more classics returning, some in their original forms, others as remasters, and a select few coming on a Made to Order basis.*
There are even a few new models coming – but one of these has a longer history than you might expect. In fact, this Bretonnian Lord on Foot (and his little helper) were actually sculpted back in 2008, but never released. Until now.**
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/QagVKNK0qlBNYJ1i.jpg)
“This awesome model was made in 2008,” explains Old World Lead Rob. “It was shown at a Games Day around then, in a cabinet of greens.***
“As we were writing the new game, someone remembered the miniature and inquired if it was still around. The mould room still had it, but it had never been pressed in rubber as far as we could tell, and they kindly made new master and production moulds so we could release him in metal.”
So now, after more than 15 years in the back of the Citadel closet and on collectors’ lists of mythical ‘lost’ miniatures, this Lord and his loyal retainer are finally hitting the action.
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/ITWJDdeLlCXc7pgp.jpg)
nd while there might not be other unreleased models coming to Warhammer: The Old World, he’s far from the only rarity to return. Many factions will receive a few surprises in this vein – and this isn’t the only noble knight on foot mustering for the Kingdom of Bretonnia.
“It’s rare to release a new model in metal,” Rob adds. “The last was the ‘Warg Attack’ Gamling on Horse for the Middle-earth Strategy Battle Game. He’s a unique release, but we have definitely had to make new master moulds from other greens throughout the development of The Old World to replace some that had been lost or worn out over the years.”
There's some other good bits in here to.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/01/15/old-world-almanack-this-new-bretonnian-lord-was-sculpted-in-2008/
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No wonder they didn't start to sell that model. His face and hands are really bad.
That said, other parts of the model are OK, and the helmet bearer is a great model.
-Z
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Also in that article ... an announcement of ... Warhammer: The Old World Launch Event January 20th.
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I like a lot of things about that model. The pose looks sweet, and I weirdly like how he's got the sword planted and gloves in his hands.
But that face yo. It haunts me. It's seen things.
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Half Elf
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So very much still a rumour at this point, but I've seen it talked about now in a couple of places. But apparently the Old World books have changed Malekith name to Malerion, which is his new name in Age of Sigmar. There's mountains of discussion happening about copyright, branding, etc etc.
But it means there could be some substantial soft retconning's beyond just world lore if they're willing to rename major characters.
(Major characters for a faction thats not actually in the game yet and been dropped to legacy.)
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So very much still a rumour at this point, but I've seen it talked about now in a couple of places. But apparently the Old World books have changed Malekith name to Malerion, which is his new name in Age of Sigmar. There's mountains of discussion happening about copyright, branding, etc etc.
But it means there could be some substantial soft retconning's beyond just world lore if they're willing to rename major characters.
(Major characters for a faction thats not actually in the game yet and been dropped to legacy.)
Maybe they are afraid of the Mouse? After all, they own a charecter by that name that has yet to be seen on screen (what, he was in a Thor movie, No never happened, I'm not listening).
As for the knight guy, why does he look like a medival statue of Jesus?
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The two big reasons I'm hearing for the name change is A) To not overlap with the Marvel character and B) its more about branding then copyright. They want people who search for their characters to find their characters first, and not be flooded out by Marvel stuff.
Still, only they know whats up.
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The full list of returning models for Orcs and Goblins, and what material they'll be, has been released:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/01/20/old-world-almanack-the-orc-and-goblin-tribes/
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Mostly for record keeping, here's the O&G Battalion box.
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/k5L3V5t2WlcCpDSE.jpg)
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Evidently bringing back all the old figures.
By the way, there won't be a rule book in this box, and instead only the Ravening Hordes book.
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They are nice figures
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Evidently bringing back all the old figures.
By the way, there won't be a rule book in this box, and instead only the Ravening Hordes book.
Not quite GP. They confirm there are NO books anywhere in the box. The rules for the army are in Ravening Hordes, which you have to buy seperately.
It’s important to note that the Orc and Goblin Tribes Battalion just contains miniatures. There are no rulebooks, dice, reference sheets, or other accessories found in the previous boxes. You’ll find the roster for your budding Waaagh! in the Ravening Hordes book.
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Looks like more Old World models of yesteryear are being released again on special order next Saturday ...
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/02/25/sunday-preview-old-world-reinforcements-and-the-army-of-the-solar-auxilia/
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They are not going to, but I wish the re-released the old 5th edition Men-at-arms models. I really liked those.
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Any word on warrior priests? They removed them from AoS and I'm a fan of that game but I have never forgiven them from removing my favourite models and fluff from that game. I believe I have about 5 unmounted an 2 mounted kicking around plus the war alter and a converted sigmarite steam tank. May have used 2 in new conversions.
I still can't upload pics here anymore. Pisses me off no end lol
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I think it is a near certainty they will bring back the metal sculpts. They have used them extensively in promo shots, and as we have seen with O&G in particular, the minis they show off are the minis they intend to bring back.
No word on Warrior Priests of Ulric. Would assume they will do a MtO run of the Storm of Chaos pair, but nothing said so far.
And I use Imgur to upload pics here. Works fine. Just use copy image address and then paste that into (http://)
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Yes, Warrior Priests can be used in Warhammer: The Old World, and there are going to be priests of Sigmar and Ulric, as well as Lector of Sigmar and High Priest of Ulric.
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Test
(https://i.imgur.com/3Yp255K.jpeg)
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I think it is a near certainty they will bring back the metal sculpts. They have used them extensively in promo shots, and as we have seen with O&G in particular, the minis they show off are the minis they intend to bring back.
No word on Warrior Priests of Ulric. Would assume they will do a MtO run of the Storm of Chaos pair, but nothing said so far.
And I use Imgur to upload pics here. Works fine. Just use copy image address and then paste that into (http://)
Holy crap!! It works!! Thank you very much!
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Preorders are up for more Brets and TK ... including some of the older metal models as well ...
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/03/02/saturday-pre-orders-tomb-kings-bretonnian-lords-and-solar-auxilia-marshal-the-troops/
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I wish they released the 5th edition metal men-at-arms models.
Those were my favourite Bretonnian infantry models. I keep hoping those will be the 'yeomen' models they keep mentioning.
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I'm struggling with the concept of "pre-order". I was going to order the questing knights and archers, yet the idea of them notifying me when their ready just struck me as wrong. I want to place an order and have them sent to me, and so I am waiting.
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Orcs are the next faction back! Grab your orcs!
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/fhqv5ehlQbdMnYoG.jpg)
VERY interesting battalion box. No heroes.
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/gJIoAPFClsShQmD5.jpg)
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/CsI4hhSS9ZrzTIvx.jpg)
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/pvWk62MkLgsdcL4i.jpg)
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/yKqo4Z7JrkiX7j6c.jpg)
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/54R13znDEVAxoX8j.jpg)
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/5ZOX7owfRDsPbrpK.jpg)
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/6qwtZCpkJfHOTAt2.jpg)
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/KzUdXSfNnoL5XCA1.jpg)
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In particular I want to draw everyones eye to the battalion box. We spent a lot of time wondering whats in the coming empire one, and this looks to confirm that heroes are only going to be in the special brett and TK boxes.
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Maybe the "hero" (can they be called that? Their orcs! :icon_wink: :icon_lol:) will be riding in a chariot :icon_question:
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After the orcs we have dwarves next!
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/03/21/adepticon-preview-the-dwarfen-mountain-holds/
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/LhhhigKi8fNPji8G.jpg)
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/rdnVDV9d6YmnWsX4.jpg)
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/7cYv1vlaVPLobPrY.jpg)
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/Nn0c6Ib7dFcvWU1j.jpg)
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/XJ0oJU9BIGQlDl0z.jpg)
and the first of the returning special charaacters, its a younger Ungrim Ironfist.
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/Fuu4y11JVw12xp0K.jpg)
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/NhgnpEqLJjUOP6Lm.jpg)
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/ONeE5TLl8v9Cpcfg.jpg)
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/ZTzTx84xE9nitqk0.jpg)
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Gankom be me to it! :icon_mrgreen: :icon_lol:
Apparently this newest set of releases was announced at Adepticon.
And oh, my, my, my ... look at those dwarf figures in that last picture ... wonderful! :icon_cool: :::cheers:::
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I'm pretty hyped. Dwarves are my main army usually, and there's a bunch here to excite me. Seeing it, I actually think I'll skip the battlebox (Its good stuff but I have so much of all that) and I can instead just spend a fortune on overexpensive characters.
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I primed those Ulther's Dwarfs last autumn, but haven't got to painting them. Very interested to see them brought back! :-)
-Zyg
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They also said they are going to release some Imperial Dwarves.
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Does anyone else think the slayer in the photo with the BSB looks deformed?
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Does anyone else think the slayer in the photo with the BSB looks deformed?
How do you mean?
All Dwarf *are* deformed, when compared to men.
-Zyg
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Yeah that slayer is pretty ugly looking. I'm pretty sure its just the paint job. They've painted it to look like he's just died his crest orange and not all his hair, including some that appears to be on the back/sides of the head. But instead it makes it look like he's had a horrible sci fi face transplant.
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Okay, so the Orc Warboss on Wyvern is in Resin for £50.
So any old metal Elector Counts on Griffons I can get hold of for less than that count as winning :D
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Does anyone else think the slayer in the photo with the BSB looks deformed?
How do you mean?
All Dwarf *are* deformed, when compared to men.
-Zyg
Even for a dwarf his head seems low in comparison to his shoulders.
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Does anyone else think the slayer in the photo with the BSB looks deformed?
How do you mean?
All Dwarf *are* deformed, when compared to men.
-Zyg
Even for a dwarf his head seems low in comparison to his shoulders.
True. Then again he is holding both of his arms up. Really up, from the shoulder up. None of the other Dwarfs are in such a position.
-Zyg
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His head is also really far forwards
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Recent rumors ...
A. GW's team of developers have begun to revisit their initial plan for the game, yet still planning to release the 9 core armies first.
B. The setting and lore are being introduced over the course of the 9 arcane journals that are being produced.
C. Beastmen are possibly getting dropped from W:AoS and shifted to The Old World.
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Recent rumors ...
A. GW's team of developers have begun to revisit their initial plan for the game, yet still planning to release the 9 core armies first.
B. The setting and lore are being introduced over the course of the 9 arcane journals that are being produced.
C. Beastmen are possibly getting dropped from W:AoS and shifted to The Old World.
Where do you get such rumors?
-Zyg
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Beastmen are possibly getting dropped from W:AoS and shifted to The Old World.
I strongly doubt this rumour, at least in this form. Beastmen are a fairly popular army, albeit one not particularly well supported. I really struggled seeing them flat out drop a faction from their main game, to add it to the niche specialist game.
The rumour I've heard is simply that beasty boys are the next army coming after dwarves, and the local stores have said thats caused an uptick in selling what AoS beastment there are.
I'm also somewhat cautious about chatter about "revisiting the game". Its been two months, and they've only released one army past the initial release, and a handful of stuff for that initial release. We know dwarfs are coming, but we haven't even got four full factions out yet. I don't see the developers revisiting ANYTHING until they get at least half way and see how the money flows and interests stays.
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Recent rumors ...
A. GW's team of developers have begun to revisit their initial plan for the game, yet still planning to release the 9 core armies first.
B. The setting and lore are being introduced over the course of the 9 arcane journals that are being produced.
C. Beastmen are possibly getting dropped from W:AoS and shifted to The Old World.
Where do you get such rumors?
I'm pledged not to reveal my sourceS.. :icon_wink:
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Credit where credit is due, GW JUST announced Beast, leaving AoS!
The Beasts of Chaos are leaving Warhammer Age of Sigmar, but they’ll be back in the future… or rather, the past. Yes, the Beastmen are returning to their old feeding grounds in the World of Legend and Warhammer: The Old World.
Quite a big shake up actually.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/04/04/whats-leaving-the-warhammer-age-of-sigmar-range/
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Nice one GP.
I think that's fine - most of those models were made in WHFB times anyway.
Question though - where did those plastic river trolls go? Have they been missing for a long time? They were fantastic...
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Lot's of interesting stuff happening there.
Most of the figures in the Bonesplittas faction could translate into O&G for The Old World, although not sure we'll see them show up there or not.
And the number of retiring Warcry bands is fairly amazing. Many of those bands are from the original line, and perhaps they just aren't selling enough of them anymore to keep them around.
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Most of the figures in the Bonesplittas faction could translate into O&G for The Old World, although not sure we'll see them show up there or not.
Most of those were WHFB models anyway.
I do notice though that savage boar boys can’t dual-wield this edition… so there is that.
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More Old World Brets, TK, and O&G arriving ...
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/04/14/sunday-preview-darkoath-marauders-old-world-orcs-and-more/
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But still no O&G Arcane Journal in Oz.
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The old night goblins plastic multi-parts. Interesting.
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The old night goblins plastic multi-parts. Interesting.
Why anyone would buy them instead of the 7th ed plastics that are used for AoS is beyond me.
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I have spent hours cleaning mould lines off those goblins from the battle for Skull Pass. Wholy crap those lines go right over the knuckles and there are 100 of them and if these sculpts have less that would be a selling point.
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They don't. I recall the mould lines on these night goblins were worse.
I do recall there were some interesting conversion options for them though - I just can't remember what!
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It is fascinating to see just how old some of the models they bring back are. There HAS to be some kind of meta reason behind it, especially considering some of the fantastic more modern sculpts.
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It is fascinating to see just how old some of the models they bring back are. There HAS to be some kind of meta reason behind it, especially considering some of the fantastic more modern sculpts.
I think there are a couple of factors in play:
1) gotta chase that nostalgia £££
2) due to the way GW's business units are organised for TOW to get credit for sales the models have to be exclusive to TOW.
Hence the old ogres, old giants, old goblins. This is elaborated on inn a video from the good half of square based.
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Yep, saw a different video, believe I provided a link some where around here, regarding how GW splits up their game into profit centers.
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New White Dwarf model coming and he looks awesome. Celebrating 500 issues of White Dwarf mag.
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/om8GNuag99vW5fki.jpg)
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/04/22/grombrindal-returns-to-the-mortal-realms-to-celebrate-the-500th-issue-of-white-dwarf/
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Can you get it without the base?
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They haven't said yet. IF its like the last big celebration Gotrek they did however, it will come with two bases. A "normal" gaming base, and that bigger display one. IF its the same.
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Even if he comes with an integral base, you can of course cut the feet clean off the base.
Wonder how big he is. Is that base 25mm, 28,5mm, or 32mm?
-Zyg