Topic: Empire vs Bretts 2000 pts

[TheNewGeneral]

Bretts
Lords
Bret Lord – grail vow, heavy armor, enc. shield, barded warhorse, ogre blade – 210
Prophetes Lvl 4 – warhorse, dispel scroll – 265 (heavens)

Heroes
Paladin – BSB, warhorse, lance, shield, crown of command, sword of striking – 130
Damsel of the Lady - lvl 2 – warhorse – 115 (beast)

Core
10 knights of the realm – full command, banner of swiftness – 279
11 knights of the realm - full command, banner of eternal flame – 298

Special
3 pegs - full command, wailing banner – 245

Rare
Trebuchet – 90
8 grail knights – musician, standard bearer – razor standard - 370
Total – 2 002


Empire
Lords
Wizard lord - lvl 4 - talisman of preservation, dispel scroll – 270 (life)

Hero
WP - barded warhorse, shield, heavy armor – 85
WP - great weapon, armor of silvered steel - 115
Captain – BSB – enc. shield, full plate - 96
WH - brace of pistols - 55
WH - brace of pistols – 55

Core
11 IC knights (lances) – standard, musician – 295
35 swordsmen – standard, musician – 265

Special
38 greatswords – full command, standard of discipline - 463
1 cannon – 120
9 halberdiers – 54

Rare – huricanum – 130
Total – 2 003

The terrain was as follows: at the left side of my half was a ruined tower, center of the table was covered by two separate forests and on the right side of my half was a hill.

I deployed my swordsmen bus (5x7) on my rights side with hill protecting their side; next to them were 11 IC with WP followed by greatsword horde with another WP and BSB. Between the two was greatswords’ detachment of 9 halberdiers holding my wizard and huricanum behind them and on the left side was my cannon and 2 witch hunters.

Opposite to my troops were: trebuchet on my left, 8 grails with lord, unit of realms with prophetess and BSB, pegs which he later vanguarded between two forests and on my right was a unit of 11 realms with damsel.

I went first, hoping to kill his trebuchet and lure his pegs into charging as he often did if I played 1st. I moved my 2 WH into the tower and that was all of my movement. In magic phase I had 9 dices total and he had 6. He dispelled my throne of vines and flesh to stone and with my last 3 dices I gave my greatswords and IC knights 5+ ward. In shooting cannon caused 3 wounds to trebuchet.

In his turn he surprisingly did not charge with his pegs but moved slightly forward and moved his pegs to my right. In magic phase he only managed to cast harmonic convergence on his realms. In shooting he killed 4 of my greatswords after he tried to hit my cannon but his shot scattered into greatswords.

In round two I stood my ground again because all of his units were 18-20 inches away and even if I managed to charge with knights, I don’t like separating my forces. In magic phase I started casting with my priests 1st and leaked few dices from him (he had 3 to start with, I had 8). After that he used dispel scroll against throne of vines and I managed to cast flesh to stone on my knights. In shooting phase my cannon finished of his trebuchet and my WH’s managed to put a wound on his lord (he was their primary target).

In his turn he charged his pegs into my bus and I passed his terror, his realms with damsel into knights and other realms into my horde, he needed to roll 10 or 11 on all of those 3 charges. His grails TURNED and started marching trough forest in order to flee from witch hunters in the tower and he lost 2 grails due to dangerous terrain. In magic phase he cast curse of the midnight wind on greatswords. He miscasted and his prophetess lost 2 levels and forgot that spell and comet.

In close combat his pegs killed 6 swordsmen, I did one wound in return and stuck. His realms had more difficult time with my IC’s because of +2 T and because of me passing fear check because of flaming attacks so he killed only 1 knight and I killed damsel and 2 knights in return but he also stuck. In last fight, first I issued a challenge with my WP which he refused with all characters and his BSB, prophetess and gallant were removed to the back. His remaining 9 knights killed 5 greatswords but in return I killed 4 and it was a draw.

In my turn my WH’s continued to chase his grails into forest but failed their shooting afterwards. In magic phase I again removed his dispel dice with prayers and throne of wines and managed to restore flesh to stone, but this time on greatsword unit. We could not agree whether I can shot my cannon into the forest so I did not

He killed additional 6 swordsmen and I only managed to kill of that wounded peg and I stuck again. My knights killed 3 more realms and suffered no wounds in return and realms fled. I restrained because it was my turn and I would be stuck God–knows-where in his turn so I let him go running into the forest losing additional 2 to dangerous terrain and blocking grails from charging me. I again issued a challenge with my WP which he now accepted because that refusal was so costly in the previous round but managed nothing against WP with T6 and I caused a wound to BSB, lost only 1 greatsword and killed 3 knights in return and he stuck, that curse really bothered me again and crown of command proved like a smart choice on his part. 
 
In his turn he managed to rally his realms and continued normal movement out of the woods with them and grails. In magic phase he did nothing because he only had chain lightning and thunderbolt left. Pegs killed 4 swordsmen and my unit finally broke and he chased me of the table while the greatswords lost 1 more man and killed all knights and WP finished his BSB after suffering a wound and lone prophetess (now lvl 2) fled.  I again restrained and reformed to face towards center.

In my turn I charged grails with my IC, moved my huricanum, greatswords and their detachment towards the middle and moved WH’s to shoot on unengaged realms. In magic phase I cast flesh to stone with irresistible force on knights and killed 5 halberds and my wizard with dimensional cascade, but healed my WP in greatsword unit. In shooting I killed 1 more realm with my WH’s and my cannon blew itself up. He issued a challenge with his general, caused 1 wound on my WP, I did none to his general but also his knights caused none while mine killed 3 and he broke and I caught him and lost my WP and 2 knights to dangerous terrain but he quit the game.

[psychichobo]

Ok, first things first - when he refuses a challenge I'm pretty certain you only choose one person to be sent to the back of the unit. Sending all of them back may not have made a difference though.

You can shoot a cannon into a forest, sure - it's true line of sight. There's a thread on this, but if you can see the spot you're aiming at with the cannon you can shoot it.

The forests being where they were might've hurt him, and miscasting again sucks. Your strategy of spamming Warrior Priest spells is pretty evil too - bear in mind that if you fail to cast any spells with the Warrior Priest he can't attempt to cast any others. Need to succeed each time.

I don't understand what he was thinking with the Grails though. That's 370 points spent faffing around in some woods - wait, and the Lord was in there too!? 580 points doing nothing!?. Why was he scared of the Witch Hunters, just the killing blow? Those guys could've really made a difference by charging in to support his other units.

If he'd gotten those Grail Knights into combat that could've made the game for him. He was effectively playing with a 600 point disadvantage.



You seem to have done well there though, good job! Good decisions and allsorts. Your friend just made one tremendous mistake that cost him. I would also recommend him maybe trying a different lore for the level 4, but that's just me.

[TheNewGeneral]

thanks for your comment. He told me that about the challenge, that someone who is able has to accept or must be forced back.. I trusted his judgement because he is more experienced. Yes, ge got really affraid of WH's when he was faced with 4 rerolable shots with killing blow and sniper. I used them for the first time and did not expect nothing of them, maybe some funny shooting moment filled with tension etc..But in the end they proved maybe the most important for the win.

I know about WP casting, I used 1 or 2 dice, depending on the situation. But huricanum with +1 PD and my 2 (or maybe 3) channels helped greatly. He was always behind with his dispelling. In general, his magic did next to nothing, his PD generation was also very poor. At least this time he acknowledge that it was his fault for loosing, not overpowered Empire and we talked for an hour after the game and I think the next game will be much better. For example, he should wait with pegs to see where I deploy my machines, he puts them always among the firts units so I just move machines to the opposite corner

[jaggedjimmyj]

You don't get broken concentration from innate abilities such as prayers. Only an IF will stop you from casting more. So you can keep casting prayers even after you've failed.   Or has this been turned on its head by a FAQ?

[Toledo Inquisition]

Tell the Bret player the Peg Knights aren't allowed a magic banner, and to make his BSB super defensive, while putting the Crown on one of his mages.  I'm a Bret player first of all, and seeing a BSB with a 3+ AS when he should be 1+ rerollable makes me cry.

[Fidelis von Sigmaringen]

You don't get broken concentration from innate abilities such as prayers. Only an IF will stop you from casting more. So you can keep casting prayers even after you've failed.   Or has this been turned on its head by a FAQ?

o, you are quite right:
BRB p. 37:
On the other hand, failing to cast a bound spell does not break a wizard's concentration, as using an item that contains a bound spell normally would not require anything more complex than uttering a single word of activation

[TheNewGeneral]

Thank you Fidelis for reminding me, I totaly forgot about that. Regarding the armor save of BSB, he had 2+, which would mean he had heavy armor, shield and barded warhorse, although that was not mentioned in his list, he mailed it to me and I jusr copy-pasted all of our lists. At least this time he counted in points for banners, last time he "overlooked" them

Did not know that about pegs, I read his book but obviously forgot about that and them being a special choice never even seemed suspicious to me regarding the banner and he uses banner every time. He shall be forced to pay some beers for his misdemeanors

I also think he should stop making his characters fat, he had 4 characters for 720 pts, while I had 6 of them for 50 pts les and even added 2 witch hunters for 110 for sheer fun. And still my characters did more, at least it feels like that to me.. Btw, can talisman of preservation and its 4+ ward help save my wizard from that miscast I had (dimensional cascade). He said it can't and since game seemed over I did not argue and did not ever tried to roll - need the info for fture reference

[Lord Solar Plexus]

with my last 3 dices I gave my greatswords and IC knights 5+ ward.

What for?

I started casting with my priests 1st and leaked few dices from him (he had 3 to start with, I had 8)

Wow, so you channeled at least two dice? Nothing he could do about that.

[TheNewGeneral]

I had nothing else to cast and wanted to use all my dices. And he sometimes charges in turn 1 with pegs so it seemed like a good idea
Regarding the dices, I rolled 3 and 3, got one from huricanum and channeled 1

[Fidelis von Sigmaringen]

Thank you Fidelis for reminding me, I totaly forgot about that.

jaggedjimmy was the first to point it out - I merely jumped his bandwagon with a quote.

[Toledo Inquisition]

The Brets can't take normal shields on their BSB's (old book rules).  Thererfore he can take a magic shield (charmed, enchanted, the anti-greenskin one in the Bret book), or the Gromril Great Helm or Dragonhelm for armour boosts.  I can't remember any other way for Brets to up their BSB's armour save.  So if he has a 2+ AS, it is with a magic armour - elsewise he is limited to a 3+.

[Lord Solar Plexus]

Everyone in his right mind would allow them to take shields. I believe The NewGeneral even mentioned that in the other thread.

[TheNewGeneral]

Yes, we agreed on alowing him to use shield since the only limitation in my mind for him not having it is that Bret's ancient army book..
I simply told him: here, this my captain that can be BSB, use the same rules and we are OK

In a few days I am playing 2k points vs WoC, my WoC friend claims he has figured the Empire out and wants me to use my best list I can muster, if anyone is interested I can keep notes on that and post it

[Lord Solar Plexus]

Hear, hear, a bold claim!  Let us know how it goes!

[TheNewGeneral]

We are playing tomorrow. I can post report here, if that is OK with you guys. I don't want to spam new topic. Or should I? 

[Lord_Crom]

I liked the report! Taught me a little something that I might try in next game.


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