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Author Topic: 2500p Empire  (Read 1258 times)

Offline Zjivago

  • Posts: 333
2500p Empire
« on: June 30, 2014, 08:55:37 AM »
Hello there, it is this time of the year again, when my army goes to war, a rare occurance indeed. Basically I played in 8th once before, at a tournament last year, and now I will go to the same tourny. Last time around it didnt go to badly considering, won 2 and lost 3. Had no training before that tournament and will have none before this one, so clearly I am not aiming for the top here. I played Empire last time around aswell and large parts of the army is the same. I have however taken out a unit of swordmen, a few detachments and a helblaster, I found all the units I had then tended to get bogged in and not doing much good, so I have toughened up the characters a little (more items) and added a steamtank. The guys on foot will mostly go with the greatswords.
Probably not a very original army but a bit of everything, giving opponents a match and hopefully fun to play and face, comments are most welcome.

Characters

General of the Empire (145 pts)
   Full Plate Armour
      Sword of might
      Enchanted Shield
      The Other Trickster's Shard

Wizard Lord level 3(190 pts)
         Dispel Scroll

Captain of the Empire (108 pts)
   Battle Standard Bearer, Full Plate Armour+ Shield
      Banner of Swiftness

Warrior Priest (125 pts)
   Warhorse+ Barding+Heavy Armour+ Shield
      Van Horstman's Speculum

Warriorpriest on foot (99 pts)
    Heavy Armour, shield
      Obsidian Amulet


Core

27 Halberdiers (307 pts)Shield+ Full command
      9 [Detachment] Crossbowmen

10 Archers, (70 Points)

11 Knightly Orders (305 pts)
      Inner Circle Knights, Full command



Special

34 Greatswords (539 pts)
   Full command
      Razor Standard
      15 [Detachment] Halberdiers

4 Demigryph Knights (242 pts)
   3 Inner Circle Knights
     Preceptor

Great Cannon, 120 pts


Rare

Steam Tank, 250 pts


Total Roster Cost: 2500


Composition Report:
Points of Lords: 320 (0 - 625)
Points of Heroes: 346 (0 - 625)
Points of Core: 682 (625 - Unlimited)
Points of Special: 901 (0 - 1250)
Points of Rare: 250 (0 - 625)

« Last Edit: June 30, 2014, 11:51:29 AM by Zjivago »
Cthulhu for president, why Settle for the Lesser Evil?
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http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=43994.0

Offline Fidelis von Sigmaringen

  • Posts: 9414
  • Attorney-at-RAW
Re: 2500p Empire
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2014, 09:25:18 AM »
Why the Great Weapon? It means the characters will not be able to use their shields in CC. It also means the WP with the VHS will not benefit from the higher Initiative he is likely to get. Give the other WP a shield too.  Our characters have a supporting role, for which they need to survive. Killing something is more of a bonus.
The DGK will benefit more from a musician than a champion.
It is not enough to have no ideas of your own; you must also be incapable of expressing them.
Sex, lies and manuscripts: The History of the Empire as Depicted in the Art of the Time (10/07/16)

Offline Zjivago

  • Posts: 333
Re: 2500p Empire
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2014, 09:39:28 AM »
Why the Great Weapon? It means the characters will not be able to use their shields in CC. It also means the WP with the VHS will not benefit from the higher Initiative he is likely to get. Give the other WP a shield too.  Our characters have a supporting role, for which they need to survive. Killing something is more of a bonus.
The DGK will benefit more from a musician than a champion.

I will be able to choose whether I use GW though wont I? In a situation where I really need to damage something I have GW (or when there is no save even with shield), against shooting and if survival is essential I have the shield.

I dont have a musician model for the DGKs.
Cthulhu for president, why Settle for the Lesser Evil?
Nordland Blog:
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Offline Fidelis von Sigmaringen

  • Posts: 9414
  • Attorney-at-RAW
Re: 2500p Empire
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2014, 09:41:34 AM »
No, you cannot choose.
BRB p. 89: If a model carries a special close combat weapon, he must fight with it in the Close Combat phase - he cannot elect to wield his hand weapon instead.
It is not enough to have no ideas of your own; you must also be incapable of expressing them.
Sex, lies and manuscripts: The History of the Empire as Depicted in the Art of the Time (10/07/16)

Offline Zjivago

  • Posts: 333
Re: 2500p Empire
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2014, 09:44:06 AM »
No, you cannot choose.
BRB p. 89: If a model carries a special close combat weapon, he must fight with it in the Close Combat phase - he cannot elect to wield his hand weapon instead.

Aha, thought it was only magic weapons.

But it can still help against shooting though?
« Last Edit: June 30, 2014, 09:51:01 AM by Zjivago »
Cthulhu for president, why Settle for the Lesser Evil?
Nordland Blog:
http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=43994.0

Offline Fidelis von Sigmaringen

  • Posts: 9414
  • Attorney-at-RAW
Re: 2500p Empire
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2014, 10:00:16 AM »
Yes.

BRB p. 75: If a weapon requires two hands to use, it is not possible for a model to use a shield or an additional hand weapon alongside it in close combat (although a shield can still be used against wounds caused by shooting or magic). We assume that the warrior in question slings the spare wargear on his back, or simply drops it, until the fight is done.

Note that if you have two special CC weapons, you must choose at the start of the combat which one to use throughout that combat.
It is not enough to have no ideas of your own; you must also be incapable of expressing them.
Sex, lies and manuscripts: The History of the Empire as Depicted in the Art of the Time (10/07/16)

Offline Zjivago

  • Posts: 333
Re: 2500p Empire
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2014, 10:17:36 AM »
Yes.

BRB p. 75: If a weapon requires two hands to use, it is not possible for a model to use a shield or an additional hand weapon alongside it in close combat (although a shield can still be used against wounds caused by shooting or magic). We assume that the warrior in question slings the spare wargear on his back, or simply drops it, until the fight is done.

Note that if you have two special CC weapons, you must choose at the start of the combat which one to use throughout that combat.

Does a second hand weapon count as a special CC weapon?
Cthulhu for president, why Settle for the Lesser Evil?
Nordland Blog:
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Offline Fidelis von Sigmaringen

  • Posts: 9414
  • Attorney-at-RAW
Re: 2500p Empire
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2014, 11:25:53 AM »
Yes. It is listed on p. 91 as TWO/ADDITIONAL HAND WEAPONS.
It is not enough to have no ideas of your own; you must also be incapable of expressing them.
Sex, lies and manuscripts: The History of the Empire as Depicted in the Art of the Time (10/07/16)

Offline Zjivago

  • Posts: 333
Re: 2500p Empire
« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2014, 11:32:55 AM »
Yes. It is listed on p. 91 as TWO/ADDITIONAL HAND WEAPONS.

Thank you, makes sense, I would look it up myself but I dont have the army or rulebook at hand.

Apart from theses issues do you have any thoughts about the list as such?
« Last Edit: June 30, 2014, 11:35:21 AM by Zjivago »
Cthulhu for president, why Settle for the Lesser Evil?
Nordland Blog:
http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=43994.0

Offline Fidelis von Sigmaringen

  • Posts: 9414
  • Attorney-at-RAW
Re: 2500p Empire
« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2014, 11:38:04 AM »
Seems pretty solid. Opinion appears stacked against the value GS; some feedback of their performance might be useful. If possible, I would try to find the points for a Lvl. 4 wizard. 
It is not enough to have no ideas of your own; you must also be incapable of expressing them.
Sex, lies and manuscripts: The History of the Empire as Depicted in the Art of the Time (10/07/16)

Offline Zjivago

  • Posts: 333
Re: 2500p Empire
« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2014, 11:46:43 AM »
Seems pretty solid. Opinion appears stacked against the value GS; some feedback of their performance might be useful. If possible, I would try to find the points for a Lvl. 4 wizard.

Well, I like my GSs, my own experience isnt exactly vast, but they have done ok. Certainly not the best elite inf out there, but its the best we have and I really like the models. As for lvl 4 I originally had that but its also a comp issue, its a high comp tourny (swedish comp) and the list is actually about as low as it can get, a lvl 4 would push it under minimum allowed unless I reconfigure quite a lot, but I can look into it.

Stuck a sword on the general.
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Offline SorenJ

  • Posts: 458
Re: 2500p Empire
« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2014, 04:35:19 PM »
 Banner of Swift on the BSB?
Why not equip BSB with magic armour and let the GS carry the banner.

Offline Sixplus

  • Posts: 171
Re: 2500p Empire
« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2014, 10:11:18 PM »
Im pretty familiar with swedish comp and building tournament lists. If you give me the minimum-max swedish comp bracket and a list of the models you have then I might be able to help you out a little.

Offline Zjivago

  • Posts: 333
Re: 2500p Empire
« Reply #13 on: July 02, 2014, 04:48:45 AM »
Im pretty familiar with swedish comp and building tournament lists. If you give me the minimum-max swedish comp bracket and a list of the models you have then I might be able to help you out a little.

10-15, well you can go above 15 if you really want to ofc but no benefits. Apart from whats in the list I dont have that much painted tbh, 40 swordmen, various characters, mortar, helblaster, some freecomp.
Cthulhu for president, why Settle for the Lesser Evil?
Nordland Blog:
http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=43994.0

Offline Sixplus

  • Posts: 171
Re: 2500p Empire
« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2014, 10:17:49 PM »
Ive come up with a list for you to consider. Ive tried to include mostly models from your previous list but with a few changes to hopefully add a bit more synergy and a lot more survivability for your characters. Here it is.

Grandmaster - 259
- runefang
- ots
- shield

Arch Lector - 155
- AoMI
- Great weapon

Wizard Lord - 190
- scroll
- lore of metal

Captain - 123pts
- BSB
- full plate
- great weapon
- dragonhelm
- barded warhorse

Warrior priest - 77
- heavy armour
- enchanted shield
- luckstone

13 knightly orders - 370
- inner circle
- full command
- standard of discipline

30 halberdiers - 264
- full command
- detatchment 7 archers (wizard bunker)

34 greatswords - 449
- full command
- razor standard

4 demigryphs - 242
- musician (more beneficial than a champion)

Great Cannon - 120

Great cannon - 120

Hurricanum - 130

Total 2499 & 11.4 swedish comp

This list gets your important characters geared up so they wont drop in 1 round of combat and bleed you a lot of points,  remember you lose an additional 100 points when your general dies and another 100pts when your bsb dies in combat so it is definitely worth spending some points to keep them alive. Also empire characters add buffs to our otherwise very mediocre troops so it is really necessary they survive.

Your inner circle knights are now very hard to beat in combat. The GM with runefang adds easy combat rez when combined with the hurricanums +1 to hit. Meaning he is hitting on 2's, auto wounds, no AS allowed, and successful wards must be rerolled. Your bsb also has S6 to help deal some more damage after the charge. If this unit loses combat it had ld10 (before negative modifiers) and uses 3 dice on break tests choosing the lowest 2. It is very hard to break. It is my favorite unit and I run this is almost all of my lists with great success.

The arch lector will join your greatswords to make them ld9 stubborn and he has a 1+ AS 6+ ward so he will be much much harder to kill than the lightly armoured warrior priest that he replaced. The metal wizard will also compliment the great swords nicely with glittering robes giving them a 2+ AS.

Ive still included the 30 halberds with warrior priest support like you had in your previous listbut have given them an archer detatchment to use as your wizard bunker.

I have changed the demis champion to a musician as this allows them to swift reform and adds +1 to their combat rez if they tie combat, which in my opinion is better than having 1 additional rider attack.

The steam tank was swapped out for a other cannon and the hurricanum as the +1 to hit 6" bubble the hurricanum provides will be a great boost to all your combat units. I personally never leave home without 1. If you really prefer the steam tank you can easily trade out the hurricanum and cannon and it will onlycost you -0.4 comp bringing the list down to an 11.0

Hopefully this at least gives you some more ideas and helps you build a list you really like. Good luck at the tournament.