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Author Topic: Spaceship Wargaming - edited post topic  (Read 2780 times)

Offline Dihenydd

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Spaceship Wargaming - edited post topic
« on: June 08, 2009, 03:52:59 PM »
Chastized for threadjacking, I though I'd open this up

I know a couple of here are interested, but do you play Sci-Fi Spaceship combat games?  I've recently started this and I'm amazed at how much there is available.  I've found some fantastic ships too.

I've started collecting various fleets and rules, and will be adding terrain etc.  My hope is to have a Spaceship combat club (I can provide most of the fleets for those who are new) up and going by September (we're expecting July 30, so if I want to play games, its going to have to be at the house)

So far I'm collecting A Call to Arms, which is a Babylon 5 simulation.

www.mongoosepublishing.com - however they are losing their license in 3 weeks and won't be renewing.  I've failed 3 times now to purchase the rules and may have to resort to actually buying at full price from the publisher before its gone.

www.ironwindmetals.com - mongoose subcontracted the mini's.  These are quite excellent.  I have Narn, Abbai, Brakiri fleets, plus some Vree and Earth.  I'm hoping to build on the Brakiri (I love the Ikorta's) and eventually add some more Narn and Earth.  Then I want to add Centauri.

Full Thrust

A generic mini's rules game allowing you to create ships as you see fit and then fight using any mini's you want.  Simple and FREE rules with some nice twists.  They also have some wonderful ships of their own that I want to add.  This will probably be my main rule set I use as its very adaptable.

www.gtns.co.uk  I believe this works, it won't work at my office however

BFG

Probably what most of you have played.  I've played a bit, however I found with experienced players it just devolved into sending wave after wave of fighters and missles at each other and whoever runs out first gets creamed.  Some of the ships look pretty good, but once again GW drifts into making their 'own' models looks suspiciously like other SciFi series for some of the races.  The Imperial / Chaos ships look pretty good.  Plus the rules are still free for download.  Which I still am amazed at, but credit to Jervis' influence.  Now if someone can get him to do the same for MoW.  (I constantly see MoW sites go up with the rules for download only to be forced to take them down shortly afterwards - I don't know why GW just doesn't do the same as with Mordheim/BFG etc)

Now I've also had a look at SD3000, and Starmada, but haven't played them.

If you have other spaceship sources or rules you've played I'd love to hear about them.  Strengths and weakness of the game system would also be appreciated as I'm still trying to determine what would be the standard set I use. 
« Last Edit: June 08, 2009, 08:53:10 PM by Dihenydd »
Sometimes the "Old Ones" just need to leave.....

Offline MrDWhitey

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Re: Full Thrust
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2009, 06:01:00 PM »
I've always liked Space Ship games, so I'm going to check any thread about one, but annoyingly it usually amounts to nothing as the yokels at my club still cling to that dead and stupid game, B5.  :icon_mrgreen:

(that's bies and Dihenydd after me now  :engel: )

Battlefleet Gothic is quite nice. I've only played it twice, and one involved a bastard of an Eldar player which mostly ruined it, but the second game was awesome.

Personally I'm waiting for the spaceship game Firestorm Armada by Spartan Games. Their uncharted seas was a big hit, and the Firestorm game is kind of based on it.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2009, 09:26:13 PM by rufus sparkfire »
I thought he should act responsibly and just kill himself.

Offline t12161991

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Re: Full Thrust
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2009, 06:38:29 PM »
I love BFG, and still can't decide if I want to get into it.
Grutch:  Careful, someone I know on a forum I visit works for Sony.  He says they aren't to be trusted.

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Offline patsy02

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Re: Full Thrust
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2009, 08:48:08 PM »
I play BFG, I have an imperial fleet at around 3000-4000 points. Best game GW made.
I agree with the inhumane treatment of animals.

Offline Dihenydd

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Spaceship Wargaming
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2009, 08:52:24 PM »
Ok, so we have one who wants to play BFG, two who've played BFG, one who's anti-B5 as stated many times over and one who's touching himself repeatedly.

This thread needs a do-over.

Can those who've played Spaceship games give some detail as to why they like the system and/or mini's?  I'm hoping for some depth as I try to determine which system to use as my main choice.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2009, 09:26:48 PM by rufus sparkfire »
Sometimes the "Old Ones" just need to leave.....

Offline Mogsam

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Re: Spaceship Wargaming - edited post topic
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2009, 08:56:30 PM »
I occasionally look at it before remembering no one else plays. I want an Ork fleet...

Mogsam
Curse you and your ability to stay within the lines.

Offline t12161991

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Re: Spaceship Wargaming - edited post topic
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2009, 09:02:32 PM »
I have actually played BFG. Rather, I'm in the middle of a game now...

http://www.asrai.org/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=14750
Grutch:  Careful, someone I know on a forum I visit works for Sony.  He says they aren't to be trusted.

Hail! to the victors valiant
Hail! to the conqu'ring heroes
Hail! Hail! to Michigan
The leaders and best!

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Offline MrDWhitey

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Re: Spaceship Wargaming - edited post topic
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2009, 09:35:55 PM »
I occasionally look at it before remembering no one else plays. I want an Ork fleet...

Mogsam

BFGwise I may be able to help you there.  :icon_mrgreen:
I thought he should act responsibly and just kill himself.

Offline Endgame

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Re: Spaceship Wargaming - edited post topic
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2009, 09:55:50 PM »
I've played:

B5 Call to Arms, already mentioned.

B5 Fleet Action.  Good game at the 4-5 ship level.  Go more than that and you're looking at days to play a game.

Battle Fleet Gothic.  Good game when played Imperials vs Chaos.  As typical of GW, the game balanced was ruined when the Necons came out.

I long long ago played starfleet battles.  I liked it, but honestly don't remember much more than just liking it.

I checked out an up and coming game at Gen Con last year that I honestly can't remember the name of  (Magic Ninja games or something).  the guy showing it off had some killer bases as well that were magnetic and worked on multiple axis.

I'm very interested in this thread, as I've always been looking for a really good space game.

Offline t12161991

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Re: Spaceship Wargaming - edited post topic
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2009, 11:49:01 PM »
Grr for rufus editing the funny stuff out of this thread!  :icon_mad:


 :icon_lol:
Grutch:  Careful, someone I know on a forum I visit works for Sony.  He says they aren't to be trusted.

Hail! to the victors valiant
Hail! to the conqu'ring heroes
Hail! Hail! to Michigan
The leaders and best!

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Offline ML372

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Re: Spaceship Wargaming - edited post topic
« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2009, 01:06:07 AM »
I've played both B-5 and BFG. The best game I've ever played in this genre is easily Starfleet Battles. This game rocks, requires relitively little initial investment and is extremely expandable with all the supplements.

http://www.starfleetgames.com/starfleetbattles.shtml                                                       


                                                          -ML372
« Last Edit: June 09, 2009, 01:09:18 AM by ML372 »
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Offline Nicholas Bies

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Re: Spaceship Wargaming - edited post topic
« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2009, 01:12:07 AM »
I love them played BFG and have a 10pt Battle Earth Alliance (early and mid) Bab5 fleet.

Think they're great and lots of fun, it's a shame there not very popular.
The greatest form of control which can go on forever until it is exposed is a tyranny you can't see, touch and taste (unlike totalitarian Govts). When you sit in a prison cell but can't see the bars, because people don't rebel against not being free when they think they're are.

Offline rufus sparkfire

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Re: Spaceship Wargaming - edited post topic
« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2009, 09:35:26 AM »
I have a random selection of star wars and Brigade Miniatures ships, so I only want to play generic rules sets where you can make your own ships. So, there's full thrust, starmada... any others?


Grr for rufus editing the funny stuff out of this thread! 

Because it wasn't funny.
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If I wanted to.

Offline Dihenydd

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Re: Spaceship Wargaming - edited post topic
« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2009, 01:45:02 PM »
I had played a lot of Starfleet battles in late 80's early 90's.  I had all the SSD's possible, every Captain's Log, and the Doomsday ed rulebook.  Lots of extra errata too.  It was freaking huge!  The sheer volume of rules meant every game you were pouring over your books trying to remember the details of your ship and your enemy's ship.

Ultimately though its just one person, one ship.  You can do multiples but it gets tough.  Better to have 3 players a side. 

However after some time most of my friends dropped out and I was increasingly playing against the unwashed gamer crowd.  Ok guys and all, but I was getting a bit tired of that particular group.  I kept the rules for awhile but sold them when I got married (I think they paid for my kilt rental).  Its a good game, and I like their universe and dedication and consistency.  However, I think I need something a little more fast paced.

Strenghts of SFB - Turn based system is awesome.  (I converted it to use with Battletech once).  Energy allocation gives a great feel you are in control of your ship.  Strong background and fluff.  Excellent detail on your ships.

Weaknesses - charts, rules, errata.  Against a 'thinker' player the games can be loooooooong.  Sheer volume of rules means you risk forgetting some, or being stuck as your opponent remembers rules you forget and uses them to beat you.  Fanatic players can be a chore to play against.  Very hard to play large games of more than 1 ship each.
Sometimes the "Old Ones" just need to leave.....

Offline rufus sparkfire

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Re: Spaceship Wargaming - edited post topic
« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2009, 02:12:14 PM »
Do they make a miniature of the Defiant from deep space nine?
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If I wanted to.

Offline ZeroTwentythree

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Re: Spaceship Wargaming - edited post topic
« Reply #15 on: June 09, 2009, 03:13:02 PM »


I've only ever played Silent Death and one other game who's name I can't remember back at a con like 10 years ago.

I was mostly frustrated with the way that games were essentially 2D in what should be a 3D environment. Attempts seemed to be made to represent a "Z axis" but I don't recall ever seeing the orientation of the ships being handled well.

Do any of the games anyone has mentioned above handle three dimensions well?


Offline Dihenydd

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Re: Spaceship Wargaming - edited post topic
« Reply #16 on: June 09, 2009, 03:31:44 PM »
Do they make a miniature of the Defiant from deep space nine?

For SFB?  Probably not, but I don't know for sure.

StarFleetBattles is a non-canonical game based on the original series.  Their licensing agreement was for the background, not the Star Trek info.  So you won't see direct references to any characters etc, but you might see an oblique note about a "renegade StarFleet and Gorn captain who shot first and asked questions later".

So after the end of the orignal series, SFB went happily along and added all kinds of new history and races.  Then STNG came along and re-wrote etc so the two universes kinda diverged.  So no Cardassians, or Changelings etc. 
Sometimes the "Old Ones" just need to leave.....

Offline patsy02

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Re: Spaceship Wargaming - edited post topic
« Reply #17 on: June 09, 2009, 05:33:21 PM »
Quote
Do any of the games anyone has mentioned above handle three dimensions well?
BFG just ignores it and allows everything to pass over/under each other  without harm. Unless you're ramming a ship.
I agree with the inhumane treatment of animals.

Offline Endgame

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Re: Spaceship Wargaming - edited post topic
« Reply #18 on: June 09, 2009, 05:47:40 PM »
Ahh!  Found it!  The game I was talking about earlier is called "With Hostile Intent" and had a booth at Gen Con 08.  The game system seemed very promising with a quick demo, and the magnetic basing system for elevation, ascent, and descent looked really cool.

The website is: http://www.ninjamagic.com/ , game over view can be found here: http://www.ninjamagic.com/cgi-bin/gt/tpl.h,content=7&

I would assume its in production at this point, but I honestly hadn't given it a second thought until this thread.

Offline ZeroTwentythree

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Re: Spaceship Wargaming - edited post topic
« Reply #19 on: June 09, 2009, 07:50:52 PM »
Quote
Do any of the games anyone has mentioned above handle three dimensions well?
BFG just ignores it and allows everything to pass over/under each other  without harm. Unless you're ramming a ship.


Yeah... see, that ends up more like naval games in space. Or space games in two dimensions only. :/


Ahh!  Found it!  The game I was talking about earlier is called "With Hostile Intent" and had a booth at Gen Con 08.  The game system seemed very promising with a quick demo, and the magnetic basing system for elevation, ascent, and descent looked really cool.

Interesting. This is partially what I'm talking about, though it depends how they treat ships stacked on top of each other in the Z-axis.

As far as the magnets, other games (I've played WWI aerial games, for example) have used telescoping rods with a ball-joint attachment on the top for attaching planes. In fact I've got a couple of planes I was eventually going to put together for myself. We've use a small plastic socket glued to the bottom of the plane. I think the magnet could be used to combine the two ideas and provide a near seamless joint.

EDIT: quick googling shows that someone else already thought of that long ago... http://www.wwi-models.org/Images/Lubka/index.html

« Last Edit: June 09, 2009, 08:07:10 PM by ZeroTwentythree »

Offline patsy02

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Re: Spaceship Wargaming - edited post topic
« Reply #20 on: June 10, 2009, 01:33:37 AM »
Quote
Yeah... see, that ends up more like naval games in space. Or space games in two dimensions only. :/
Well, BFG does play like an age-of-sail game with torpedoes. The eldar even use sails.  :icon_razz:
I agree with the inhumane treatment of animals.

Offline Justnorth

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Re: Spaceship Wargaming - edited post topic
« Reply #21 on: June 10, 2009, 05:06:17 AM »
I own all the BFG fleets + extras except for the Tyranids and Tau which are the only GW space fleets I didn't approve of in terms of sculpting quality and design so I didn't buy them.
The rest are different and cool.

I also own space fleets from other manufacturers.

I don't play BFG any more, it's ok, but it's not for me.
I gave all my rulebooks and counters etc to some young guys who were looking to get into it but didn't have a lot of money to get started.
I do use the ships though, because they look good, in two other space fleet systems that I play.

Starmada is an excellent system from Majestic 12 games, really quite complex in it's options and expansions but still very good for all that. MJ12 are a very conscientious gaming company. The system is a little demanding (indepth) to learn but once you have it down it's a very good game but some of the variations (movement for instance) they offer the players are better than others.
You can use all your BFG toys for Starmada.
You can create your own ships in Starmada.

Full Thrust takes the trophy for being my favourite game in the space fleet battle genre.
Ground Zero Game's legendary space fleet game has the record for the most decorated sci fi space game in the history of sci fi space games.
It has a global following.
Full Thrust has won best sci fi miniature game awards since the mid to late 90's and it has evolved slowly over that time.
It maintains complete flexibility for the customer/player and it keeps the gameplay moving at a good clip once you have the rules down.
The more recent GZG fleets are also excellent models. (The earlier were pretty ugly)
You can use all your BFG toys for Full Thrust.
I do.  :icon_mrgreen:
You can create your own ships in Full Thrust.

Spartan Games have a new space fleet based game due out soonish and it looks like it could work really well if it utilises the same engine as the excellent design used for Uncharted Seas.
Some of the models for this game are on the Spartan Games website and their space ships look very sexy indeed.

Babylon 5 is a fun space fleet game but a common complaint is that the different fleets could be better balanced.
GW can pucker their skanky lips and suck my arse.

He's French. Since when do his plans have to be feasible?

Offline rufus sparkfire

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Re: Spaceship Wargaming - edited post topic
« Reply #22 on: June 10, 2009, 09:58:40 AM »
Yeah... see, that ends up more like naval games in space. Or space games in two dimensions only. :/

But that's how space battles are most often represented in films and books anyway. It's fine for something like star wars or star trek. Not to mention that most star ships designs would be very inefficient in a 3-D environment.

I think I'd want self-levitating miniatures before I attempted to play a true 3-D game...



Quote from: Dihenydd
For SFB?  Probably not, but I don't know for sure.

StarFleetBattles is a non-canonical game based on the original series.  Their licensing agreement was for the background, not the Star Trek info.  So you won't see direct references to any characters etc, but you might see an oblique note about a "renegade StarFleet and Gorn captain who shot first and asked questions later".

So after the end of the orignal series, SFB went happily along and added all kinds of new history and races.  Then STNG came along and re-wrote etc so the two universes kinda diverged.  So no Cardassians, or Changelings etc.

That's a shame. Deep space nine is my favorite kind of star trek, and I'd like some decent miniatures for the main ships.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2009, 10:10:42 AM by rufus sparkfire »
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Offline Gneisenau

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Re: Spaceship Wargaming - edited post topic
« Reply #23 on: June 10, 2009, 10:09:15 AM »
StarFleetBattles is a non-canonical game based on the original series.  Their licensing agreement was for the background, not the Star Trek info.  So you won't see direct references to any characters etc, but you might see an oblique note about a "renegade StarFleet and Gorn captain who shot first and asked questions later".

So after the end of the orignal series, SFB went happily along and added all kinds of new history and races.  Then STNG came along and re-wrote etc so the two universes kinda diverged.  So no Cardassians, or Changelings etc.

Do you mean this StarFleetBattles?

Offline Dihenydd

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Re: Spaceship Wargaming - edited post topic
« Reply #24 on: June 10, 2009, 05:37:27 PM »
LOL that's wonderful!  Must be one of the new Super-X expansions?
Sometimes the "Old Ones" just need to leave.....