Warhammer-Empire.com
Warhammer-Empire Website => Welcome to the Empire - Guides, Help, Introductions, and Rules => WFB Empire Provinces => Topic started by: Midaski on May 05, 2007, 03:42:27 PM
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Current Ruler: Tzarina Katarin - 'The Ice Queen'
Capital: Kislev
Map Links: (Colour) http://www.fys.ku.dk/~blicher/Kislev_v2.jpg
(Black & White) http://www.fys.ku.dk/~blicher/Kislev_v2_bw.jpg
Other main cities:
Praag which has been 'modified' by Chaos incursions on the odd occasion.
http://www.blackindustries.com/images/maps/city-of-praag.jpg
Erengrad - originally the Ungol capital it is a large port and a trading city.
http://www.blackindustries.com/images/maps/city-of-erengrad.jpg
Notable Units:
Winged Lancers, Horse Archers and Kossars.
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Being a Mod does not usually involve a lot of perks, but controlling the list of threads for the Empire Army choices is one, and so this is why there is a special thread devoted to Kislev.
There is much speculation throughout the Empire about the origins of the Lord Midaski and his rise to power, and indeed the current extent of his influence.
Recently in correspondence that has mysteriously come to light, his position as Imperial Chancellor and subsequent control of the Empire’s Exchequer has become more widely known. Many who were previously also aware of his financial enforcer activities for Grand Burgomeister Grutch of Marienburg, coupled with his position of Treasure to the Tsarina Katarin, are wondering how a Kislevite has come to control most of the finances of the human world.
It is rumoured that Midaski was the first born of a Kislev Noble, from the city of Erengrad, whose wife was from a Middenland family related to the Count, and so the lad was influenced by both heritages. The boy grew into a fine strong man well drilled in the use of all weapons and proved himself a valiant fighter and leader of men, but his capacities for strategy, politics, mathematical and mental conundrums, and particularly finance set him apart.
His early astute manoeuvrings earned his father the title Lord of Erengrad, and he was soon a favourite of the Tsarina at the Kislev Court where he quickly had her ear, and a lot more besides it is said, :icon_wink: as her most trusted adviser.
His reformation of the Kislev Treasury ensured stability for the Realm, and endeared him even more to Katarin, and enabled him to promote further ideas to his queen for the future expansion and well being of the Kislev Realm.
The Empire had employed Kislev units within their ranks for many years, but suddenly some years ago this practise was discontinued in some idiotic edict originating from the city of Nottingham.
This instigated a return to his martial skills, and he created a mercenary army harnessing the magnificent cavalry skills of the Kislevite Ungol Horse Archers and Winged Lancers, and supplementing them with hired units of Empire infantry, even providing them with furry hats and boots.
His astute martial skills along with his ability to command high prices for his services meant his troops were well paid, indeed the legendary portrait :icon_wink: of him clad in his armour with one foot firmly placed on the wages chest is often seen in many homes, and retired members of his personal bodyguard are often found recounting tales over a tankard of how the chest was never captured.
His role behind the scenes as an adviser to Knyaz Makari in the War of the Ostermark Succession and the alliance with the home province of his mother, Middenland, has been well documented, and that furthered his interest in learning more of the Empire’s military tactics. Kislev contingents took to the field of battle alongside the followers of Ulric to form an often deadly alliance.
After the war he raised and trained a new army in Rhakov recruiting the best warriors from the length and breadth of Kislev, but instilling the disciplines of the Empire tactics. Trade and political bargaining saw the acquisition of several Imperial artillery pieces, and his old friend Bronzinhov was employed to train crews.
More details of the Army of Rhakov that journeyed to take part in the ‘Orange Campaign’ in the lands of Marienburg can be found here:
http://www.warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=12276.0
Following the surprising success of that campaign where the Kislevites showed their grasp of Empire tactics were more than a match for any state army, Midaski has maintained and expanded his personal pulk and enhanced their status within the Empire, and also gained the trust and friendship of the Emperor himself.
It did not take the Emperor long to realise the astuteness of his new friend’s financial abilities and seek his advice on how to improve the Imperial coffers. Several new initiatives proved invaluable in maintaining the Empire’s solvency after the Drizzle of Chaos, and continue to aid the recovery thereafter.
Of particular note is the reward scheme for Imperial Tax Office Employees who uncover black marketeering.
As an example the recent case, code name “Operation Kinky”, exposed the infamous Heretics Scam in Nordland, which involved huge undisclosed profits from illicit Timber and Indulgence sales.
The appointment to Imperial Chancellor subsequently became a mere formality.
Thus we have seen the rise of the Lord Midaski, who has recently inherited the city of Erengrad, following his father’s untimely demise in defence of the city against the Chaos hordes. The Tsarina took the opportunity to reward him further for his services by proclaiming him Khan of Erengrad – rumours abound in Kislev that their ‘romance’ might become official, but that is mere speculation, as their roles in the Old World keep them apart most of the time. The Tsarina occasionally enjoys the company of younger Kislev noblemen, and Midaski is known to travel with a set of remarkable Kislev Sorceress twins, who he claims have a ‘magical’ ability to keep him warm and satisfied. :engel:
The new Khan’s pulk has recently been containing a greenskin problem in the southeastern reaches of the Empire, and continues to grow.
Travelling in that region has seen a growing appreciation of the crossbow much favoured in Averland, and envoys have been sent into Tilea and Estalia to acquire the best examples of said weaponry.
His regiments of swordsmen wielding the Kislevite scimitar are supported by spearmen and halberdiers, most still sporting their furry hats despite the Empire’s warmer climes, though bare-chested Ungols with topknots are still a common site within their ranks.
New squadrons of Heavy Lancers riding barded warhorses are being recruited, and there are rumours of a new squadron of Lancers mounted on huge bears, sired from the line of Urskin himself.
Midaski’s personal wealth has financed the finest blackpowder weapons, and a unit of Outriders has joined his Kislev pistolier rotas recently.
His handgunners still employ the Streltsi tactic of using their berdiches (short halberds) as gun rests to provide their accurate and withering support fire.
The Erengrad Greatswords have also been reformed, the finest warriors recruited from within the army and equipped with the finest plate armour, - yet their Lord knew better than to go too far with his most loyal troops – Kislev warriors, used to the harsh life of the northern wastes, have long been used to ‘recycling’ captured armour and weapons both for protection and as visible trophies, and accompanying this fresh new plate armour are many examples of these trophies such as shoulder and neck guards duly cleansed and purified of any taint and imagery.
It has also been reported that a special rota of the Gryphon Legion have been assigned by Katarin to protect her special ambassador, and he in turn has presented these special warriors with the new special breed of warhorses recently introduced within the Empire.
So to the future, and the court at Altdorf is awash with excitement at the hunt for the Nemesis trinket. The Khan Midaski however seems unperturbed – indeed he has not shown any outward interest at all, and when challenged by some pretentious courtier that maybe he should be leading the search, has been heard to smile benignly and utter words to this effect:
“Do not worry my good sir, the artefact will not be found by any enemies of the Empire. You can be assured it will always be in safe hands.”
{It has also been suggested that there was an extra word at the end of the last sentence "Mine", but observers said that as he had gone on to talk about gold and silver 'extraction' from the Grey Mountains they were sure he was referring to that.}
Indeed the Chancellor’s current endeavours seem more directed towards the northern coast.
Erengrad - Kislev’s main port - is now well under way to full restoration and once again ships from Ulthuan and Araby can be seen at the quays, whilst at the same time there is much activity surrounding Midaski’s interests in Marienburg and his combined ventures with the Grand Burgermeister Grutch.
Unsurprisingly there seems to be some disquiet in Nordland, stuck as it is, between the two ports – we await developments with interest.
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Being a Mod does not usually involve a lot of perks, but controlling the list of threads for the Empire Army choices is one, and so this is why there is a special thread devoted to Kislev.
His early astute maneuvering earned his father the title Lord of Erengrad, and he was soon a favorite of the Tsarina at the Kislev Court where he quickly had her ear, and a lot more besides it is said, :icon_wink: as her most trusted adviser.
The Tsarina occasionally enjoys the company of younger Kislev noblemen, and Midaski is known to travel with a set of remarkable Kislev Sorceress twins, who he claims have a ‘magical’ ability to keep him warm and satisfied. :engel:
Another perk of being a moderator tis the ability to go on and on about one's favorate subject; himself. :closed-eyes:
With respect to the Tzarina, it is likely that this is just the delusions of a sad and rather old man, kept alive only by fantasy, and the desire to wring yet another copper from the sweat of the honest hard working Imperial burghers. And yet it is possible that the Tzarina's Ice Magic may have the ability to harden certain items otherwise incapable of reaching that desired state. It would explain the fantasy.
The reference to young nobles is most amusing. While one could go on about this topic, everything that need be said can be summed up by the quote from the noble Dain of the Border Legion:
Playing Warhammer since 1984 doesn't make you good, it just makes you old, not as old as Midaski however.
All of the above is not meant to slight in anyway, the brave Tzarina, the nobles or ferocious fighting men of the Kislev steps. They stand as a bulwark stemming the tides of Chaos time and time again. Those who have yet to employ the Griffon Legion should surely consider doing so. Additional information from the scribes of Nottingham concerning the the famed Legion and other Kislev forces availible to an aspiring Imperial General can be found here:
http://us.games-workshop.com/games/warhammer/empire/gaming/kislevrules/default.htm (http://us.games-workshop.com/games/warhammer/empire/gaming/kislevrules/default.htm)
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A couple of maps from new WFRP and Black Industries. Cities of Praag and Erengrad:
http://www.blackindustries.com/images/maps/city-of-erengrad.jpg (http://www.blackindustries.com/images/maps/city-of-erengrad.jpg)
http://www.blackindustries.com/images/maps/city-of-praag.jpg (http://www.blackindustries.com/images/maps/city-of-praag.jpg)
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Hi Gang;
I am working on a Kislev themed Empire army for Warhammer fantasy. Two questions:
(1) Apart from the winged lancers and mounted archers what else should I add? I am thinking of using Kossars as scouts/archers and converted mounted archers as pistoliers. Ideas? Views?
(2) Does anyone know where I can find the Kislev warbands for Mordheim? They are not available from GW anymore. I have tried ebay with no luck.
Thanks
Fallen Scholar
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My experience is that the Mordheim range are like gold dust - ebay is going to be your only chance, but I cannot remember the last time I saw some on there.
If you are talking themes then there have been some long threads on ideas for a Kislev army list. The original discussion is dropping down the EF,
http://www.warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=18060.0
and the outcome of that is in the Imperial Office:
http://www.warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=18321.0
If you are talking models then I think you are limited, and you will have to use greenstuff.
I have bought several of the Horse archer torsos which I have then used for archers, huntsmen and swordsmen. Much of this was done long before the kossars were released.
Other than that it is a case of greenstuffing furry hats, boots, capes, and jackets.
I have given mine an identity by sword usage as well, selecting the scimitar - most of which were on the Morheim weapons sprue which doesn't help, but I have 'borrowed' some from the skellies sprues.
I have also scrounged all the topknots I could, and filed down several empire, catachan or appropriate human heads to baldness, then added the topknots - it adds variation to the horse archer options, and the sole ponytail head on the militia/hairy head sprue.
I also gave my archers similar bows to the horse archers for continuity.
I'm actually halfway through modelling some outriders.
I have lancers are on barded horses, so they can count as normal knights.
I also use DoW light cavalry options and have spear & shield armed, and sword & shield units with winged feather banners attached - again for continuity with my normal lancers.
I have all the normal Empire units modelled to a Kislev theme, so I can play a straight up Empire army, but I have the contingent options too, so I can play an Empire Kislev main force with a Kislev contingent.
If I recall you used to run a knights heavy army a while back? Do you have a concept for the army in mind this time round.
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Right now I am torn by two different versions.
The first version is a DOW/Kislev list that looks like this:
General kitted out on a warhorse
Level I wizards on foot with 2 scrolls
Paymaster ( I am calling him a warrior priest of Urson...the spiritual leader of the army)
Boyar
2 Units of Winged Lancers with champion
2 units of DOW light cavalry with spears and shields
4 units of War Bears ( I have old GW bear models that would be used as Iron Guts Ogres)
( I have been playing with the idea of a list with 4 units of 3 maneaters but Lord are they expensive in points)
Volands Venators ( I call them the Volandski Guard)
Gryphon Legion
Cannon
The other list uses the Empire book and the Kislev rules
Right now the list is still forming and looks like this.
General of the Empire (The Grand Duke of Eringrad)
Level I with 2 scrolls
Boyar
Warrior Priest with icon of Magnus (read Icon of Mishka)
2x10 handgunners ( I have Mordheim Kislev handgunners)
Winged Lancers
8 IC knights (Grand Dukes Guard)
9 Gryphon Legion
10 Volands (Volandski Guard again)
2 units of converted mounted archers as pistoliers
cannon
1 unit of 4 Warbears
Kossars as scouting archers
I never thought of using the bear men as swordsmen...I will have to look at the models again.
Some one had suggested using Tsar Boris as a Rhinox rider...still thinking of that.
Am I missing anything?
Thanks
Fallen Scholar
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In addition to my Reikland army, I have recently been painting a Kislev army for a friend. Warlord observed that some players/painters might be interested, so here's a link:
http://www.seandeitrick.com/?page_id=13
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Very nice Kislevites there. Definately worth a gander. The standards are very nice.
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I'm trying to get a summary of the officially published Kislev fluff for available army units. I've seen the various Polish and Russian-based lists, and that is really great work. Good stuff. I'd like to balance that with what can be found in all the various GW, Black Industries, and other commercially published references as i choose what I want to build for my own use.
Looking through Realm of the Ice Queen for Kislev unit references and such, I found the following. If anyone has more stuff to add detailing specific units, please do.
I'm not addressing Hags, Ice Witches or Wise Women in this posting, as translation of their magic skills into WHFB isn't something I'm looking for right now, and has been addressed elsewhere anyways.
Basic facts:
1. The standing army basically consists of Kossars.
2. The Gryphon Legion is a professional cavalry unit, but not part of the official standing army.
3. The rotas of Winged Lancers are locally raised troops. (similar to Levy of the Nobility in Polish terms)
4. The Ungol Horse Archers are raised from the Ungol peoples. (similar to Cossack regiments)
The following towns definitely have rotas of Winged Lancers:
Gerslev, Resov, Bolsasgrad, Milkavala
Other towns (and the cities) do too (but it's not detailed in the book as of my first reading of it).
The town of Sepukzy has a rota of Horse Archers.
The boyar of Gerslev is raising a unit of Riflemen.
Erengrad manufactures quite a few cannons. Lighter and less expensive than Empire Great Cannons. Popular on ships, and in Kislev fortresses.
Kislev has the Temple of Myrmidia, which is guarded by a Knightly Order, the Order of the Winter Sun.
Erengrad has the Boydinov Streltsi, who are a unit of handgun and berdysh axe wielding Kossars. They also run a school for handgun & berdysh that trains Kossars from across Kislev.
The Temple of Morr in Erengrad has some Black Guard of Morr resident. Whether these would be seen on a battlefield is a question.
There is a reference that trained bears are sometimes used for war. The bears cited in the trained bear reference are omnivorous; since the cave bears and ice bears are carnivorous, it suggests that these larger bears may not be encountered as trained bears. Though it would obviously be cool to have them.
So, in addition to what was in the Kislev army book, that gives us a unit of Kislev knights, some regular cannons, and at least two units of Kossars that wield handguns instead of bows. And maybe bears.
If anyone has found definite references to any other possible units in commercially published materials, please chime in.
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Racticas, great looking Kislevites. :::cheers:::
Wish I could paint that well. :icon_sad:
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Alright I'm thinking of Starting a Kislev force based out of Erengrad and I have a few questions from our resident experts.
1) Is there a specific Erengrad colour scheme?
2) Would Empire or DOW list be better starting parent lists?
3) What are the black guard of morr mentioned in Erengrad. What would be good model representations?
thanks
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A Kislev thread would not be complete without, IMHO, the best all Kislev list I've seen. A toast for lamekh. :::cheers:::
FINAL* Knights of the Khan-Queen - Kislev 2000 pts (http://www.warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=19201.msg252299#msg252299)
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WOW! those maps of the cities are awesome.
You can sometimes forget how BIG the Empire and its neighbor Kislev really is
I solute the mounted men of the north :::cheers:::
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Interested as I am by Kislev and its fluff, I noticed that on the GW website it refers to the Kislev rules pdf. as "Unofficial". Are the pdf rules so referred to the same as those Kislev rules which appeared in the Warhammer 2004 Chronicle?
-981
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Yes they are the same - as well as the ones that appeared in their own little booklet beforehand.
They were for what was called the 'Contingent' idea - basically it was a way GW could sell the Gryphon Legion, Lancers and Horse Archers and the Kossars models by making them an add-on for some armies - though it was mainly aimed at the Empire.
Who knows what the overall strategy was? There was some speculation that it was the first in a new way of allowing 'allies' as had been done in Ed.5 and before.
Others saw it as a way they kept Kislev alive and sold minis .............
"Unofficial" means they are unlikely to be allowed in a GW tourney, and you would have to see if independent tourneys would allow them.
They weren't particularly strong or unbalanced, but remember the points costs were worked out at Ed.6 values, and a lot of troop prices have fluctuated since, but they are not too far off the mark.
If you like the Kislev theme, do what I and several others have done - build an army from the Empire list using Kislev models or conversions.
Winged Lancers can be mounted on barded Warhorses and become Knights. Kossars become Archers or Huntsmen, or infantry -add a shield to the ones with an axe in hand. Horse Archers come with separate torsos and legs - the bow torsos can be archers again on plastic legs, the sword torsos can be glued to empire soldier or militia legs.
Ordinary empire plastics can be converted with greenstuff furry hats and boots etc ........
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Thank you Midaski.
-981
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Greetings,
I want to do a themed army and was wondering if an army from the Cursed City of Praag would be doable using the Empire army list. I was planning on a chaos cult army from there that seeks to continue the last war.
any help is appreciated.
Lolepops
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Wasn't Praag razed?
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Are you sure Praag actually fell in the Storm of Chaos? I had thought Archaeon merely surrounded it to cut them off rather than actually trying to take it.
Like many cities, the Kislevites keep rebuilding Praag, even if it was raised, they would likely rebuild it. I believe when Praag fell in the time of Magnus the Pious the city was rebuilt elsewhere as the site of the ruins was too tainted by Chaos.
It would definately be a good point of origin for your army if Praag is still intact.
If you are looking for suggestions on army composition, try the Parade grounds section of the boards.
Kislev style swordsmen, free company and flaggellents driven mad by the presence of Chaos would probably be a good composition. Handguns, knights, artillery or other state troops would seem to be not a good match for fluff.
- Laerniss
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I love the idea of guys dedicated to fight Chaos with lots of hardy and tough veterans on the front lines. Mind you, you're not forced to make an army in the "present day" warhammer world. Your guys could be from before Praag was razed, if it was indeed razed.
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Like many cities, the Kislevites keep rebuilding Praag, even if it was raised, they would likely rebuild it. I believe when Praag fell in the time of Magnus the Pious the city was rebuilt elsewhere as the site of the ruins was too tainted by Chaos.
Same location I thought; though they have some problems indeed due to the taint of chaos (leering faces appearing into the wall of your house aren't that funny probably).
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(leering faces appearing into the wall of your house aren't that funny probably).
Oh, I think you'd get used to it. You could get to know some of them and get them to answer the door while you're away, or talk to them when you get lonely and stuff. They could even help with the dishwashing if they grew a pair of arms as well! Kind of like dinosaurs fulfilling the role of home appliances in the flintstones...
Your PM, in a silly mood
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I coulda swore that once chaos took Praag, all the living residence that weren't slaughtered were actually like melted into the walls and stuff (hence the faces) and would constantly moan and scream in agony. Not exactly my idea of an ideal vacation spot, but eh, couldn't be too bad right? :unsure: I think do to the twisted corrupted nature of the city everybody just kind of avoids it, much like mordheim, where everythings just so F'd up, it's just more economical to cut it off.
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I recall from the SOC book that chaos forces surrounded the city while marauders landed in the harbour, taking the city. I think the whole thing with the chaotic corruption within the city thing happened when Asavar Kul attacked.
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Patsy, you're thinking of Erengrad, the Kislevite port, which was indeed besieged and then assailed by troops from land and sea, as Marauders came from the waters and Hellcannons battered down the walls. Those events took place in the recent past, during the Storm of Chaos.
The city of Praag came to fame for falling (after a long siege) during the Great War Against Chaos, two hundred years (and change) past. It was those events that led to the city being corrupted by Chaos, etc. The army of Asavar Kul then moved on, was defeated at Kislev by Magnus the Pious, and the force of Chaos driven north of Praag again. The city was so corrupted that it had to be razed to the ground; the Kislevites rebuilt the city atop it, but still experience problems from time to time, and so occasionally portions of the city are destroyed and rebuilt.
During the Storm of Chaos, Praag was besieged by the forces of Archaon, but Kislevite and dwarven forces held the city and it never fell. Sometime after Archaon was driven out of Sokh, near Middenheim, the Chaos forces at Praag began to break up and the siege was lifted.
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Midaski said....
The Empire had employed Kislev units within their ranks for many years, but suddenly some years ago this practise was discontinued in some idiotic edict originating from the city of Nottingham.
I thought this was hillarious :laugh:
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Hmmmm... Thinking of making a Kislev army but do not have enough information about heraldry. Who do the Kilsevites worship? What colours are their flags? What colours are their uniforms? What symbols are common in their army?
Thanks for any help.
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Hiya Redhammer,
I've emailed you info from the GW Kislev booklet from a few years ago. That was for a 'contingent' idea GW had which died a death, but it gives a fair amount of fluff.
You can use 'true' Kislev units as allies still in friendly games, or you can use the standard Empire List and just make/convert your minis with a Kislev theme ...........
PS. Watch out for Dannyfave - he's a Kislev fanatic and may start stalking you ............ :icon_wink:
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Already happened, except he initiated the conversation. :-D
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Already happened, except he initiated the conversation. :-D
I'm told the best 'groomers' always give their victims that impression .............
:engel:
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Thank you so much Midaski, but I am thinking of playing my Kislevites with Empire rules.
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ha! groomer............... :engel:
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Thank you so much Midaski, but I am thinking of playing my Kislevites with Empire rules.
It just sucks using your ungols as pistoliers, people don't like it.
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Question....
From a fluff standpoint is there only 1 Gryphon Legion regiment or are their several regiments all going by the same name... Thanks
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Question....
From a fluff standpoint is there only 1 Gryphon Legion regiment or are their several regiments all going by the same name... Thanks
i would expect that they are a legion of them. With each legion having 5,120 legionaries by late roman terms.
There no true fluff discussing a solid number, but i would say there's around 5000
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Im not sure numbers are the right measurement for fluff, but all I have read suggests that there are many of them, more like a knightly order than a regiment of renown.
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Ok thanks guys.... My kislev stuff has soon appear...
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As it happens, I just bought the Kislev Army Booklet for 0,50 Euro in a garage sale (more for nostalgic than practical purposes), and was therefore intrigued by the previous post. Unfortunately, it turned out to be one of the many spam bots we are facing lately. [Edit: spam post now removed,]
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Nothing wrong with buying the booklet though for 0.50 Euro!
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Obviously, I could not agree more.