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Author Topic: The Province of TALABECLAND  (Read 43076 times)

Offline Midaski

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The Province of TALABECLAND
« on: May 05, 2007, 03:29:50 PM »
Talabecland occupies a large area in the centre of the Empire mainly covered by the Great Forest, but it is still a major route for trade via the Stir and Talabec rivers.

Library Link:  http://warhammer-empire.com/library/aisforaltdorf/the-grand-duchy-of-talabecland/

Current Ruler: Elector Count Helmut Feuerbach ..... (but he's been missing since the Storm of Chaos)
 so possibly Elector Count Gustav von Kreiglitz (WFRP source)
Capital: Talabheim
Province Colours:   Red and Yellow




Map Links: (Colour)  http://www.fys.ku.dk/~blicher/Talabecland_v2.jpg
   (Black & White)    http://www.fys.ku.dk/~blicher/Talabecland_v2_bw.jpg


Notes:
« Last Edit: January 30, 2012, 09:59:36 AM by rufus sparkfire »
Quote from: Gneisenau
Quote
Metal to Finecast - It is mostly a swap of medium. 

You mean they will be using Ouija boards instead of Tarot cards for their business plans from now on?

Offline stretch_135

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Re: The Province of TALABECLAND
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2007, 11:51:29 PM »
Will repost my fluff....at least it'll be easier to find this time!

The Army of Talabecland
Drawn from the men of Talabheim and its' surrounding province, the Second Battalion of the Grand Army of Talabecland is generally led by Johann Feurbach, first son of the missing (and presumed dead) Elector Helmut Feurbach. However, in recent times, the holy church of Sigmar has turned its attention towards Talabecland and, in particular, towards its army. As such, Feurbach has found himself demoted within the army leadership as Warrior Priests and a Lector have gradually assumed control. Joined by an ever-increasing number of crazed Flaggelants and several of the artillery gunners who normally guard the walls of the capital, the Second Battalion is currently encamped near the city of Volksdorf, under the command of General Helstrom.
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Offline patsy02

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Re: The Province of TALABECLAND
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2007, 09:49:23 AM »
5000 points of mean Talabeclanders and counting <3
I agree with the inhumane treatment of animals.

Offline stretch_135

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Re: The Province of TALABECLAND
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2007, 11:03:17 AM »
Ooo, you're up on me something chronic. Any chance of seeing some pics? Please?  :-)
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Offline Helgrund

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Re: The Province of TALABECLAND
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2007, 10:49:19 AM »
Lord Roth, Grandmaster of the Knights Panther has lost patience with the the power struggle created by missing Elector. While the nobility bicker, routing chaos warbands have further added to the dangers that lurk within the Great Forest. Beastmen and mutants have become more aggressive, attacking towns in large numbers.

Taking matters into his own hands he has taken charge of the Talabecland regulars to put a stop to the growing menace.


2500pts of models (mostly 6th ed)
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Offline PaleKing

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Re: The Province of TALABECLAND
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2007, 11:39:56 AM »
I've been a Talabecland player since the launch of 6th and they are still my favourite. I guess I'm on about 4-5000 pts of painted models but fielding everything would not be a legal army. I'll post some pics once I've photographed my army.

« Last Edit: June 01, 2007, 09:24:04 AM by PaleKing »

Offline PaleKing

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Re: The Province of TALABECLAND
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2007, 09:31:02 AM »
I'm a little confused about the background material for our current ruler though. Can anyone elaborate on the following?

As far as I remember, first edition WFRP material had Gustav von Kreiglitz as the Elector Count. When Storm of Chaos occurred it seemed that we suddenly had Helmut Feurbach, who has been missing ever since SoC, which is fine, I guess he succeeded Gustav sometime between WFRP editions.  The new edition of WFRP is set after the events of SoC and makes reference to Helmuts dissapearence. However - the gazetteer (Sigmars heirs pg 91) lists Elector Count Gustav von Kreiglitz as the ruler of most of the settlements and makes no reference in the text as to why von Kreiglitz should be the one to apparently step up as ruler in the absence of Feurbach. Shouldn't Gustav von Kreiglitz be ancient history by now?

With all that in mind, the section on Talabecland also includes the following text which is puzzling to say the least:

Bek
Chief town of the province ruled by Count Joseph von Behring..... Count von Behring was an early supporter of Elector Count Feurbach's coup after the death of Feurbach in battle and now he expects help in return. Feurbach has sent a troop of his personal guard to Bek to maintain order.


This dosn't make sense to me. Firstly, according to the Gazatteer Bek has a pop of 750, compared to Kusel with 6,500 so how is Bek the "chief town of the province"? Secondly, if the figures are a typo and Bek is indeed the chief town, how come it is ruled by Count Joseph rather than Krieglitz/Feurbach?

Thirdly - the sentence "Count von Behring was an early supporter of Elector Count Feurbach's coup after the death of Feurbach in battle and now he expects help in return. Feurbach has sent a troop of his personal guard to Bek to maintain order dosn't make sense to me. Are we talking about two Feurbachs here? and is one still in charge somewhere?

Sorry if none of this makes sense, but to honest it dosn't make a lot of sense to me either. I expect I've missed something somewhere along the line so if anyone can help me out I'd be grateful. It's hard to write background material for our armies when there is this type of confusion hanging over it.

Cheers

Offline patsy02

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Re: The Province of TALABECLAND
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2007, 09:46:17 AM »
Yeah, I'm a bit confused about Talabecland's fluff too.
In the 6th edition it was said to be a poor province with restricted use of gunpowder etc.
Now they have a regular economy and field "small elite armies".
Personally I can't see why talabecland would be poor, when it streches across half our empire. Shouldn't geographical size and variance like that make a stable income?
I agree with the inhumane treatment of animals.

Offline FVC

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Re: The Province of TALABECLAND
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2007, 11:09:39 AM »
If you think about it, Talabecland ought to be a rich and prosperous province. The Talabec, a major trade route passes through the province, making it the gateway between the northern and southern Empire. The river must be useful for irrigation as well, and with its large land area Talabecland must contain a lot of arable land. As Talabecland suffers no major military threats, like Chaos in Ostland, beastmen in Middenland, or orcs in Wissenland, you would think they would have the peace needed to become a major power.

So, I would think that it is an economically powerful province. Due to all that land area, I imagine agriculture would be particularly important, and that Talabecland might well be the breadbasket of the Empire. This would make the province particularly wealthy, or at least its nobility wealthy, but also account for a reputation as a bunch of backwards farmers. Other than Talabheim, which is not technically part of Talabecland, the province looks to have a mostly rural population, which would explain much.

Regarding the rulership, I was under the impression that the Krieglitzes still rule in Talabheim, though not in Talabecland. I should think that there are many Krieglitzes throughout the province, as a successful noble family would surely intermarry with as many other nobles as possible. As such, Gustav von Krieglitz could still rule some settlements without necessarily being the Elector Count. Perhaps Helmut Feuerbach married his daughter, thus becoming the Elector Count legally and without breaking the chain of succession? Sadly I have unable to obtain Sigmar's Heirs and cannot check what's in there to speculate, but the problem doesn't look unsolvable.

Offline wissenlander

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Re: The Province of TALABECLAND
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2007, 12:30:49 PM »
Educated guesses are usually needed in this sort of stuff.  FVC does a good job of it (even though neither one of us seems to have read Sigmar's Heirs).  There is a lot of stuff that happens with little or no explanation and we have to make the call on what we think happened.  Compounded with that is the fact that Roleplay fluff often contradicts Battle fluff.  Very frustrating.
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Offline mwalsh867

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Re: The Province of TALABECLAND
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2007, 12:38:09 PM »
Compounded with that is the fact that Roleplay fluff often contradicts Battle fluff.  Very frustrating.

QFT.  The rpg is nice for extra background, but contradiction of other sources (Warhammer Fantasy, Mordheim, 1st ed rpg, novels, etc) is common.  Essentially, the warhammer world (and especially the Empire, as that is the "starting point" for a human perspective) is a unique fantasy setting observed and described many different ways.

-Matt

Offline FVC

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Re: The Province of TALABECLAND
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2007, 12:52:07 PM »
Aye, it's quite irritating. The Empire is particularly badly off in that respect. Factions like the lizardmen or the Dark Elves have it fairly easy, and it's not too hard to work out who's in charge of what, where, and what they're doing. Even beginning to sort out the tangle of Imperial nobility is a horrendously complex and contradicting task. I seem to remember a certain discussion about Karl Franz's heir which showed that, as did another argument about whether Middenheim is the capital of Middenland. (It's not, or so say I.)

With an issue like Talabecland nobility, oddly enough GW hasn't spent a lot of time discussing it. All we can really do is make educated guesses. I've found WFRP background to generally be quite good for fleshing out the background presented in the ABs, which makes my inability to get Sigmar's Heirs that much more infuriating. If it's written to the same standard as Knights of the Grail, I'm sure I'll love it, but there aren't many stores around that carry a large WFRP range, and the one I do know of is sold out.

Actually, come to think of it, isn't there a WFRP sourcebook on Talabheim? Terror in Talabheim, I think it's called? Surely that would contain relevant (if contradictory) information?

Offline Rightnow

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Re: The Province of TALABECLAND
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2007, 01:04:19 PM »
I just looked up Talabecland's info in Sigmar's Heirs. I don't think it is a economic super power, but it certainly is prosperous from all of the woodcraft and logging. The ruler is Elector-Count Helmut Feurbach. Talabheim is huge with a population of over 70,000. Any city that size will have a powerful, full time, standing army with elite troops.


Offline FVC

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Re: The Province of TALABECLAND
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2007, 01:27:44 PM »
Indeed it should. We knew Talabheim has the political and economic clout to go about acquiring independence from Talabecland, and to survive and prosper independently.

Naturally, Talabecland isn't a super power... moderately strong is how I would describe, quietly prosperous and ignored. Its big weakness, it seems to me, would be lack of industry and urbanisation. Reikland is undoubtedly the wealthiest and most powerful province, with an independent Nuln as another big player. Those two have a relatively urban population (relative to medieval standards, that is), powerful trade guilds in the cities, and the beginnings of factories appearing. Talabecland is still mostly rural. Their biggest challenge will be developing their urban centres to rival the metropolitan nature of Altdorf or Nuln.

The secession of Talabheim would be a major blow to that, I should think. Reikland is fortunate because Altdorf has remained part of it, even though Altdorf is by itself as powerful as any other city-state. Both Nuln and Middenheim also snatched independence (from Wissenland and Middenland respectively); like Talabheim, that must have weakened those provinces. Still, Talabheim depends on Talabecland for a lot, and the same goes the other way around. If I were the Elector Count of Talabecland I'd be very interested in what's going on in Talabheim...

Offline Guvnor

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Re: The Province of TALABECLAND
« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2007, 03:30:16 PM »
So, if we assume that both -heim and -land are still relatively good at working together (unlike some other cities-provinces we could mention) then we probably end up with a practical power that is certainly near to the most economically powerful, if not on top.

Reading very recent nemesis crown fluff (and I know the problems with the modern GW) it appears that talabecland does have some strong industry ribboning along the talabec which wouldn't be covered by talabheim. (will fill this out later after finding booklet- worth reading as quite a few areas are in talabecland) If we add this to its central position and relatively safe localities (their forests are certainly not the worst, by a long chalk) we could put talabecland as a in-the-top-quarter powerful province, even without talabheim.
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Offline LochNESS

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Re: The Province of TALABECLAND
« Reply #15 on: June 02, 2007, 06:50:17 PM »
No, any area that was mostly rural in Europe was economically maybe not bad off but no where near the urbanised areas (Northern Italy, Lowlands, areas around Hamburg, Cologne & London etc) But the mostly rural hintherlands were moderately wealthy at most (which means thay could store grains etc for worse years, afford some form of organised defenses etc) In terms of wealth there is nothing in the Empire that compaires to Reikland in that.

However, in many places there was one big 'supercity' for that region that dominated trade, crafsmanships etc. In this case it would be Talabheim that still dominates Talabecland in many ways. Almost all trade would pass through Talabheim and therefore pay taxes etc there. Considering the mentioned size (70.000) this is one hella big city. In the real world think Berlin or Genua/Venice in that time, Amsterdam had around renassaince days 150.000-200.000 guesses differ a bit... and was one of the largest cities in Europe. I still think that Talabheim in most aspects would be 'capital' of Talabecland. It is the major economic, cultural and religious and military player in the area. Although lower counts etc would have small armies, Talabheim could affort to 'outclass' them.

As for terms of soil, Talbecland seems to be pretty covered in woods, which did not generate a whole lot of income. Hunters etc were not considered the best off. It does provide oppertunities for other industries though. And another thing would be that there is little known about the conditions of the soil. The southern provinces seem to be pretty good off in terms of soil, as is Averland (with their horses). We would have to consider smaller villages here. With a fortified small city that dominates a certain area and functions as tradehub for the rest of the province (and from there on to the rest of the Empire)

Btw, is there any knowledge on the position of Talagaad and where it is in terms of position to Talabheim/Talabecland?

You are right on one thing though. The 'identity' of provinces keeps changing
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Offline Bob Jacobs

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Re: The Province of TALABECLAND
« Reply #16 on: August 27, 2007, 06:28:12 PM »
I'm making aTalabecland Army as well, the fluff centered around a wealthy nobleman who is (with the count ising) raising an army to defend his lands and people from harm.

I have about 2000 points of 'em (about half of them painted).

Offline PaleKing

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Re: The Province of TALABECLAND
« Reply #17 on: August 28, 2007, 11:00:23 AM »
I've found a reason for the initial confusion - a good old fashioned misprint....

The Black Industries WFRP Errata download includes a note to say that Kreiglitz is included in the Sigmars Heirs gazateer as a misprint. The explanation is :

"Information in the Gazetteer on Talabecland is a bit confusing compared to information in the quick data section. Helmut Feuerbach is the real elector of the province, gazetteer has von Krieglitz as a misprint. Talabheim is a chartered free city but is more closely tied to its province than Altdorf or Nuln. The situation has been exacerbated due to the elector count going missing and the countess seeking to become the elector for the whole province (making the situation like that of Boris Todbringer and Middenheim/Middenland). Kusel is the provincial capital, but is second to Talabheim in terms of wealth, power and fame."

Offline stretch_135

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Re: The Province of TALABECLAND
« Reply #18 on: August 28, 2007, 12:53:32 PM »
Soooooooo....if that's the case, who's the new player? (this 'countess'?)

(I'll admit I have a vested interest in this, as one of my characters is Johann Feurbach, the son of Helmut. My guy could become the next Elector :))
On the quest to get my painting in the red this year...follow the madness here: Blog!

Offline Bob Jacobs

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Re: The Province of TALABECLAND
« Reply #19 on: August 28, 2007, 06:34:08 PM »
The countess would be Feuerbach's wife, no?

So your guy's mother :biggriin:

Also: I never heard of Talagaad before, what is it? And about Knightly Orders: I read somewhere the Knights Panter are very powerful in Talabecland, I made my own Order for my army: The Order Of Taal's Hunters.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2007, 06:44:37 PM by Bob Jacobs »

Offline stretch_135

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Re: The Province of TALABECLAND
« Reply #20 on: August 28, 2007, 09:11:07 PM »
Oh, that could be an interesting fight.

"Men! We go to war against....my mother!"
On the quest to get my painting in the red this year...follow the madness here: Blog!

Offline Wyzer1

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Re: The Province of TALABECLAND
« Reply #21 on: August 28, 2007, 10:10:40 PM »
Oh, that could be an interesting fight.

"Men! We go to war against....my mother!"
your mom goes to war...

Oh the "Your Mom" jokes are a flying
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Offline wissenlander

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Re: The Province of TALABECLAND
« Reply #22 on: August 30, 2007, 02:04:29 PM »
It could happen.  Although not exactly the same, images of Henry II and Eleanor of Aquataine come to mind and the relationships that they had with their children.  If the atmosphere was right then it would be plausable for a son to strike out against his mother.
Me and Wissenlander had babies!

not together.

finding photographic evidense that Wiss smiles is going to be hard...

Teclis

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Re: The Province of TALABECLAND
« Reply #23 on: September 13, 2007, 07:18:34 PM »
i have no feelings...


Offline Bob Jacobs

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Re: The Province of TALABECLAND
« Reply #24 on: October 08, 2007, 04:19:30 PM »
i have no feelings...



That's not very good!

Back on topic though: My Talabecland Army is coming along nicely. I have about 1k painted now and played three games at this level and won them all :happy:. Ain't that nice?