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The Empire at War ... The Gamers Guild => Other Fantasy Games ... => Skirmish & Warband => Topic started by: Von Kurst on October 24, 2008, 10:12:37 PM
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I was just pontificating about what a great game Morheim is on the Vampire Counts thread when Rufus Sparkfire said he had never played :icon_exclaim:
Well I play every week give or take a few for vacations and the like, and I have for the last 6 or 7 years now. Mordheim is a great game and can be very hobby intensive. My group plays in the Lustria, Cities of Gold; Khemri, Land of the Dead; and Empire in Flames settings regularly. We have also tried the Nemesis campaign setting and next Thursday we're going to be trying out the Relics of the Crusades setting.
We use the living rule book from the specialist games site and a bunch of house rules from 6th ed WAB.
Check out some (older) photos of the games here
http://s218.photobucket.com/albums/cc193/playtable/Mordheim/Game%20pictures/
and Lustria here
http://s218.photobucket.com/albums/cc193/playtable/Mordheim/Game%20pictures/2005_04%20Lustria/
:smile2:
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While I'll agree that Mordheim is a fun game, I would need to caution new players on a particular aspect of it.
The only way for Mordheim to be truly enjoyable is to eliminate ANY and ALL elements of competition from the game. Even an inkling of warband optimizing or competition ruins the game.
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My group (such as it is - a few blokes :-D ) solely play Mordheim. Best thing GW have ever produced. Period. :happy:
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While I'll agree that Mordheim is a fun game, I would need to caution new players on a particular aspect of it.
The only way for Mordheim to be truly enjoyable is to eliminate ANY and ALL elements of competition from the game. Even an inkling of warband optimizing or competition ruins the game.
I donīt agree, going through a campaign with loads of special rules and scenarios can be so refreshing especially if the competiton is strong. Conquer territory and get bonus for it, try to find out some plot with role playing elements. Special scenarios where your commander returns from a brothel and fight your way alone through loads of zombies to reach the safety of your band. Mordheim with your warband changing and developing competing with other bands is for me the most enjoyable tabletop enjoyment.
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As a game, Mordheim is about as balanced as a grand piano perched atop the space needle. There are just some equipment options, models, and warband building strategies that are miles better than others. If the players in the campaign attempt to capitalize on those inequities, you're going to have someserious problems.
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Well what are those strategies? There are some parties that will be better stats and equipment wise but what in the campaigns happened that I played is that more than one band ganged up against the territories of the big cheese.
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As a game, Mordheim is about as balanced as a grand piano perched atop the space needle. There are just some equipment options, models, and warband building strategies that are miles better than others. If the players in the campaign attempt to capitalize on those inequities, you're going to have some serious problems.
How serious really depends on the mix of personallities. The game is truly not well balanced, especially if you allow the newer 'I've got an idea' warbands into the mix. But in a lot of ways since it works best as a campaign setting its not intended to be. Also there are the Ambush, Suprise Attack and other scenarios that balance the tougher warbands with uneven odds.
Sometimes I think Morheim is the perfect game, others I think not so much. But mainly I find its the players that bring the problems to the game and the players that bring the fun to the game. I've been lucky in the mix. :biggriin:
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Well what are those strategies? There are some parties that will be better stats and equipment wise but what in the campaigns happened that I played is that more than one band ganged up against the territories of the big cheese.
From memory when I used to play, a shit load of skaven clanrats with slings and as many characters with fighting claws as possible (honestly so good. 2 attacks, parry, help climbing etc) seemed to dominate all.
Also the skills were kinda unbalanced. Some like the invunrable dodge save in CC were just infinatly better than others (+1WS on the charge, +1 WS when fighting 2+ opponents, Useless!)
This was annoying because it's nice to make fluffy characters like a psycho axe-weilder with fighting skills or a cowardly youngblood who has running skills. The gameplay just favored a homogenous set of weapons and skills across all characters.
Randomly generating skills would have been cooler imho. Or perhaps two tiers of skills reachable after a certain level of experience is reached.
I was a bit dissapointed the rule set wasnt a bit more advance really. Its easy to pick up if you play warhammer, but could have been much more.
Plenty of cool concepts available for house rules though :smile2:
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From memory when I used to play, a shit load of skaven clanrats with slings and as many characters with fighting claws as possible (honestly so good. 2 attacks, parry, help climbing etc) seemed to dominate all.
Things have changed a bit, Skaven are good, but they struggle with leadership issues which is a huge balancer. In my experience its the player not the warband although dominant players will tend to choose between 3 or 4 warbands. For example if one of my friends chooses the Dwarf Treasure Hunters the rest of us ALWAYS gang up on him...
Also the skills were kinda unbalanced. Some like the invunrable dodge save in CC were just infinatly better than others (+1WS on the charge, +1 WS when fighting 2+ opponents, Useless!)
I'm going to get a bit nitpicky here. I realize you are dredging up bad memories whereas I have the rule book, but I don't want a misquoted rule to give the wrong impression of the game. So its actually +1 Attack plus immune to the dreaded all alone test when fighting 2+ opponents, NOT useless, usefull!
Also I have played forever and play usually one game a week so although the skill choices can become routine there are really no useless skills in the long run. Got a youngblood that always rolls skill advances never characteristic advances? +1 WS on the charge can mean the difference between needing 4+ or 5+to hit. And hitting is better than missing because at least the character has a chance.
As for randomly chosen skills over player chosen from an available skill list that is assingned to character type, the example given of the bloody minded fighter and the youngblood who runs away is exactly what happens in a game with the Mordheim rule set as opposed to the Necromunda set. Flagellent heroes are always fighters because they have no access to other skills. Middenheimer champions and youngbloods are always fighters, see above. Reiklanders are going to shoot, mostly, but Champions can become combat gods. Marienburgers have to shoot and fence because they have no access to Strength skills. (And they hide behind hired swords that they hire because they are more likely to have skills that increase income...) So if you want to do something with a warband you choose a warband with a skill set that matches what you want to do.
Finally the fact that the game is not main stream means that if you want to make it your own game you can! All the basics are there and you can fill them out as you please. There's no GT to prepare for just you and some friends. Pistol Pete has a thread going on his own house rules for his games. His Mordheim games would be different than mine, but I am going to use some of his ideas and I hope he uses some of mine sometime.
Plenty of cool concepts available for house rules though :smile2:
Ain't it the truth... :biggriin:
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Marienburgers with Duel pistols...I felt in love right from the beginning :happy:
The only thing I dislike the High Elf lists seem way overpowered to play them the shadow warriors and the Hoeth Lustria gang. One thing lots of players didnīt use was the hide option to sneak upon enemies so the slings of skaven werenīt so bad also if you drop enough of the gang they start to rout. I liked the game a lot and having a frenzied two handed sword wielding always jumping back up vampire sure is something other guys have to chew on but if you kill all his thralls around him he wonīt advance as fast as you do.
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What ways do you two find hiding as useful just out of curiosity? not sure of its main benefit is all.
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Hiding.
When playing shooty Dwarfs or Reiklanders there is lots of hiding. I find it very useful because it forces the other player to break up his firing line to send out models to reveal the hidden models. These wariors can then be picked off to put pressure on the shooters... We have many chess matches where cover is the optimum with warriors moving in short jumps to keep to cover so they can hide.
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you can also sneak up upon enemies and only very few players got the lantern, I havenīt played for quite a while but isnīt there also a skill where you can move and hide at the end of movement? Could be I mix necromunda and mordheim here.
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As long as you don't run (march move) you can move and hide. A favorite tactic of my Beasts!
Some warriors have access to skills that allow hiding or its equivalent as long as they are within 2 inches of cover...
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Have you ever seen the Shadow Warriors trial list? They also work a lot with cover. Even their spells are coveristic. Create your own cover, give someone in cover a st 4 hit, make someone close to a building stunned lots of evil stuff.
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Over the years the Shadow warriors have appeared a lot. Especially in Lustria, but once or twice in Mordheim itself. They drove me crazy when the list first appeared because everyone seemed to roll the stupid invisible spell right away. In one campaign I even made a T-rex event that would show up in d6 turns and start eating the elves...
I'm older and wiser now, and perhaps less vindictive. In any event the list is years old and still listed as unofficial. We still include it in the playable lists because my group has all played against it and come to terms with the hidey, shooty, skippiness of it. We kill elves early and often, no ransom, no mercy...
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The lustria High elves also seem overpowered, which I think is kind of sad because I would like to play a nice elven war party but as it stands I more often stick to the marienburgers. Vampires are also interesting but the lack of development in the band itself makes them a little less fun. Ah how great it is to roll on the experience chart.
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I'm still fond of Reiklanders, though curious to try orcs and skaven for a laugh, maybe Gnoblars sinc ethat would be awesome fun.
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I also found the beastmen pretty hard because of their special rules and the dwarves because of their engineer guy. But every war band has a good chance to take the other down. We had a very successful sisters of sigmar player but even with loads of freaky stuff my marienburgers did quite well. Without the special gunpowder rules that is.
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I have yet to play Dwarfs or any kind of elf warband. I've had great fun with Beasts, orcs, many mercenary human bands including Arabians, Tileans and Kislevites. I've got a collection of Sisters and a bigger, painted collection of Amazons. Also I recommend trying the Nemesis crown warbands. Black orcs rock even if you don't use the ridiculous shooting skills (Black orc marksmen! the idea! ::heretic::)
And Forest Goblins are great kinds of fun if you can figure out how to use the Giant Spider.
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Advice: Ban the shadow warrior warband or nerf them with house rules.
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The Mordheim game is fine and competition is fine if you have the right people. Especially people who are not beardy!
There are quite a few who complain about the rules and bend them.
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i just wanna play it more :icon_sad:
still only played once due to the othe poeple picking and mixing other games and playing other systems :icon_cry:
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somewhere there was a page where you could play mordheim online but it wasnīt free as far as I remember could be worth a try but it ainīt as much fun as playing the tabletop.