Warhammer-Empire.com

The General Archive => Empire Army Book 8th Edition => Core => Topic started by: Merrick on May 13, 2009, 10:32:51 AM

Title: Huntsmen
Post by: Merrick on May 13, 2009, 10:32:51 AM
Keep the points the same, bring them back down to 5 models minimum, perhaps?


Also, maybe something like bear traps?

Hunting Traps
+1 point per model

Nominate D3 pieces of scenery on the battlefield, except hills.
Any unit that moves into the terrain piece will take D6 S3 hits.
One use only.
Title: Re: Huntsmen
Post by: wissenlander on May 13, 2009, 11:55:03 AM
Unit size 5-10, give them back their longbows.  I don't think much needs to be done with them beyond that.  The trap idea is interesting, but not sure it works out in the way it is set up at the moment.  Perhaps something along the lines of:

If the unit does not move or shoot in a turn they can place traps which will cause D6 strength 3 wounds upon an enemy unit if it crosses over the area where the trap was placed.
Title: Re: Huntsmen
Post by: Michael W on May 13, 2009, 12:04:14 PM
I like the traps idea.  How about as follows:

Mantraps:  If a unit of Huntsmen scouts or is deployed into a piece of terrain, any enemy unit that moves into or through (or even over) that terrain piece immediately suffers 1d6 S3 hits.
Option:  Upgrade to Bear Traps (S5 hits instead of S3) for +2 pts/model.


There's no issues about "hidden" or "unrevealed" things, but the Huntsmen acquire a palpable deterrent against melee foes.  The affected terrain piece is indisputable.
Title: Re: Huntsmen
Post by: rufus sparkfire on May 13, 2009, 12:05:34 PM
Unit size 5-10, give them back their longbows. 

Right. They were fine before the seventh edition guy got at them.


The traps idea sounds like something for a skirmish game (such as Mordheim, which does allow bergjaegars to set traps), not a massed battle.
Title: Re: Huntsmen
Post by: wissenlander on May 13, 2009, 12:07:17 PM
I agree, that's one of the few things that really got on my nerves about the new book.

Title: Re: Huntsmen
Post by: Uryens de Crux on May 13, 2009, 12:10:43 PM
Just adding my voice to the "give huntsmen back their longbows" mob.
Title: Re: Huntsmen
Post by: Warlord on May 13, 2009, 12:32:56 PM
I like the traps.

I reckon 10 is too many, but 5 is not enough. I think 8 is fair.

Rifles are good for huntsmen too :wink:
Title: Re: Huntsmen
Post by: Inarticulate on May 13, 2009, 12:34:26 PM
I like the traps.

I reckon 10 is too many, but 5 is not enough. I think 8 is fair.

Rifles are good for huntsmen too :wink:

Yes! Rifles = handguns with +1 to hit.
Title: Re: Huntsmen
Post by: Uryens de Crux on May 13, 2009, 12:42:05 PM
I like the traps.

I reckon 10 is too many, but 5 is not enough. I think 8 is fair.

Rifles are good for huntsmen too :wink:

Yes! Rifles = handguns with +1 to hit.


Now I kinda like it, just make sure they arent HLRs! Give them BS4 perhaps? move and fire?
Title: Re: Huntsmen
Post by: wissenlander on May 13, 2009, 01:11:04 PM
I suppose it works, and is fluffy for Hochland, but thinking of scouts with blackpowder weapons just conjurs up all sorts of bad images.  Plus, move and fire doesn't seem very consistent with these sorts of weapons, and would make that unit way too powerful, IMO.
Title: Re: Huntsmen
Post by: Uryens de Crux on May 13, 2009, 01:32:23 PM
Yeah, move and fire is a push, I agree, I would be happy with skirmishing handgunners to be honest.
Title: Re: Huntsmen
Post by: Michael W on May 13, 2009, 01:57:47 PM
I'd be happy to see Huntsmen have the option to swap their longbows for handguns or crossbows (probably +2 pts/model for guns, only +1 for crossbows since, with Scout, they'll be in range anyway).  But just handguns - not rifles or any such nonsense.  Rifles are close to, if not completely, impossible for the Empire to manufacture given its technological state. 

A Marksman could have option for a Hochland long rifle, though...but only if the rest of the unit is carrying handguns.
Title: Re: Huntsmen
Post by: Inarticulate on May 13, 2009, 02:05:33 PM
I'd be happy to see Huntsmen have the option to swap their longbows for handguns or crossbows (probably +2 pts/model for guns, only +1 for crossbows since, with Scout, they'll be in range anyway).  But just handguns - not rifles or any such nonsense.  Rifles are close to, if not completely, impossible for the Empire to manufacture given its technological state. 

A Marksman could have option for a Hochland long rifle, though...but only if the rest of the unit is carrying handguns.

Sorry? Rifles have been around for longer than you think, they even have canon fluff about Hochland gun makers building rifles.
Title: Re: Huntsmen
Post by: Obi on May 13, 2009, 02:09:04 PM
I am joining the longbow mob. It just doesn't make any sense otherwise. Although I'd like the 0-1 removed or upped to 0-2, where they do not count towards minimum core units.
Title: Re: Huntsmen
Post by: Uryens de Crux on May 13, 2009, 02:16:31 PM
I'd be happy to see Huntsmen have the option to swap their longbows for handguns or crossbows (probably +2 pts/model for guns, only +1 for crossbows since, with Scout, they'll be in range anyway).  But just handguns - not rifles or any such nonsense.  Rifles are close to, if not completely, impossible for the Empire to manufacture given its technological state. 

A Marksman could have option for a Hochland long rifle, though...but only if the rest of the unit is carrying handguns.

Sorry? Rifles have been around for longer than you think, they even have canon fluff about Hochland gun makers building rifles.

Not to mention that in the real world, rifleing has been about nearly as long as handguns have been, its just a job thats very hard to do (but surely no harder than making repeating handguns, HBVs, team tanks or robo-ponies.
Title: Re: Huntsmen
Post by: Irisado on May 13, 2009, 02:49:15 PM
I would suggest not getting carried away with Handguns and other black powder weapons.

I feel it's better just to keep any changes to this unit both small and simple, so I would advocate just reducing the minimum unit size, and giving them back their Long Bows, since, in my view, this would distinguish them sufficiently from regular Archers, without having to add all these other exotic weapons that are being suggested.
Title: Re: Huntsmen
Post by: mastercats on May 13, 2009, 03:20:58 PM
i'd say remove minimum  number of scouts, give longbows, and lower minimum unit size to 5.
Title: Re: Huntsmen
Post by: Zygmund on May 13, 2009, 04:26:14 PM
I'm in the "longbows + minimum unit size of 5" club.

-Z
Title: Re: Huntsmen
Post by: Merrick on May 13, 2009, 05:08:27 PM
I reckon 10 is too many, but 5 is not enough. I think 8 is fair.

Then have the minimum and buy extra.  :-P
You can get 8 archers out of the militia box anyways.

Also, I am against the rifles for the huntsmen (just doesn't seem right), and it won't happen.
Title: Re: Huntsmen
Post by: Inarticulate on May 13, 2009, 06:40:10 PM
Pah! your all backwards, stirland-loving techno-phobes!

Well i'm very much in the camp of minimum 5 + rifles +1 to hit.
Title: Re: Huntsmen
Post by: wissenlander on May 13, 2009, 06:51:20 PM
The problem comes when you (in the general sense) try to massively upgrade everything just because, though.  It suddenly turns from a fair and balanced list into one that would put daemons to shame.
Title: Re: Huntsmen
Post by: Rodman49 on May 14, 2009, 08:11:37 AM
I would leave them the same as they currently are with a few exceptions:

No 0-1.
Longbows.
Do not count towards min core units.
Same price.
Title: Re: Huntsmen
Post by: Obi on May 14, 2009, 11:43:08 AM
I would leave them the same as they currently are with a few exceptions:

No 0-1.
Longbows.
Do not count towards min core units.
Same price.
Same here, but with min size 5
Title: Re: Huntsmen
Post by: wissenlander on May 14, 2009, 12:06:48 PM
What about that decrease in minimum size?
Title: Re: Huntsmen
Post by: der Hurenwiebel on May 20, 2009, 08:18:37 PM
check out this from my engineer 8.0 post

 Dropping breech block Rifles: +4 points per model, one unit per 3000 point army is permitted to field test these new rare weapons.  They have a range of 36 S4 -3 AS and are not restricted to move or fire. You may upgrade handgunners  as per above rules or one unit of Huntsmen  with these if your army has a dean of engineers.
Title: Re: Huntsmen
Post by: smashthedean on May 20, 2009, 09:26:06 PM
I think same point-cost, 5+ unit size would be enough for me. Longbows would be alright, but I don't really think I'd be using this unit for shooting so much as rushing war machine crews, march-blocking, and diverting chargers. Honestly I'd probably like an option for additional hand weapon (pistols would be best, but that'll never happen and wouldn't make sense) more than anything to make sure the crews go down.
Title: Re: Huntsmen
Post by: Skyros on December 01, 2009, 05:00:39 PM
This is probably the weakest unit in our lineup now, I feel.

I'm just not going to take a unit of 10 of them.

They were basically fine in the 6th edition. Give them back their longbows and make their unit size 5-10.

I would also like to see +1BS :)
Title: Re: Huntsmen
Post by: Empireguard on December 01, 2009, 10:04:03 PM
Yes just give them longbows back
Unit size 5-20
No 0-1 restriction
Do not count towards min core units.
Same points

And none of this back powder stuff or traps. Trust me on this if the GW guys took most of our ideas then the game would take forever. You need to keep things simple.

Ps just a note you can actually take them in units of 5 now if they are a detachment. It’s just they have to be deployed with 3” of a parent unit so the scout rule doesn’t get much use. 
Title: Re: Huntsmen
Post by: Skyros on December 02, 2009, 08:42:56 PM

Ps just a note you can actually take them in units of 5 now if they are a detachment. It’s just they have to be deployed with 3” of a parent unit so the scout rule doesn’t get much use.

But since they no longer have longbows there is literally no reason to do that :p
Title: Re: Huntsmen
Post by: Empireguard on December 02, 2009, 09:47:31 PM
But since they no longer have longbows there is literally no reason to do that :p


well not much reason. it does mean you can have them an extra 3" closer e.g. 24” deployment zone to they can start 21” inches away from the enemy, so I guess that could mean an extra round of shooting (who ho 5 extra bow shot in a game will help a lot :icon_rolleyes:).  However yes not really any good reason I was just saying it’s possible.

Title: Re: Huntsmen
Post by: der Hurenwiebel on December 02, 2009, 11:50:34 PM
I agree basically but give them the options of longbows, or dropping breech blocks, minimum size of 5 no max but may not be largest ballistic unit in the army.  You've got to have at least the same number of crossbows, hand guns or regular bows in other units in the army. 

I still think the "build a unit" concept is the best though.

Title: Re: Huntsmen
Post by: Johedl on December 15, 2009, 11:01:06 AM
I don´t agree with the idea of a decreased minimum size. 10 Huntsmen are not a big unit and not that hard to deploy as it is.
Longbows might be good for archers but for huntsmen it would only mean an additional 3" of short range. They can deploy within rang anyhow so why pay the extra points?
But I agree that the 0-1 rule should change. Perhaps like WE scouts they should be limited to no more than the number of units of archers.
Title: Re: Huntsmen
Post by: Inarticulate on December 16, 2009, 11:36:58 AM
I want them to have firearms, not longbows. Scout, skirmishing handgunners with bs4.
Title: Re: Huntsmen
Post by: Derek Contyre on December 18, 2009, 10:55:14 AM
I like the idea of skirmishing scouts with move and fire hand guns but with twelve inches and +1 to hit. But they are options to upgrade of 6point huntsmen.

i think that would be balanced, you know? dark elves have multiple shot bs5 scouts which can take great weapons. . . why can't our technology and training give us skirmisher scouts with handguns or move and fire hand guns at least?
Title: Re: Huntsmen
Post by: kk14 on December 18, 2009, 11:29:36 AM
I agree with the OP: Unit size 5, Longbows.

Keep it simple.
Title: Re: Huntsmen
Post by: nub5 on February 06, 2010, 07:01:20 AM
Hunting Traps
+1 point per model

Nominate D3 pieces of scenery on the battlefield, except hills.
Any unit that moves into the terrain piece will take D6 S3 hits.
One use only.

I miss my Forestjaegers  :icon_cry:
Title: Re: Huntsmen
Post by: Priest_of_Morr on March 11, 2010, 06:32:57 PM
I agree longbows need to be brought back, the captains can have them so why can't hunters who are suppose to be the hunters/scouts for the army! Also 10 min is to many maybe 5-8 min would be a good idea!!