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The General Archive => Empire Army Book 8th Edition => Core => Topic started by: Zygmund on February 06, 2010, 12:01:42 AM

Title: Halberdiers as in Nick Lund's Fantasy Warriors?
Post by: Zygmund on February 06, 2010, 12:01:42 AM
Reading through the "Fantasy Warriors" rules from 1990's, I came across a possible Halberdier rule.

Looking at it, Halberds are a mix of Great Weapons (the heavy axe) and Spears (the length & the point), right? Meant to be used as both, depending on the situation.

So, why not use them as such?

Before combat, a unit of Halberdiers gets to choose which way they use their weapons.

I might even go as far as to suggest that they get to choose every turn. After all, a good Halberdier should be able to change his style depending on the situation, and a well drilled unit should be able to organise into different positions.)

I think this is an elegant rule to emphasise the versatility of the Halberd when compared to the other weapons.

As of point cost, I don't know for sure. They'd be more versatile than Spearmen, but cannot use shields with Halberds. They'd probably be worth of the five points.

Fluff-wise, this would give a hint of why there are so many Halberdiers, and why they've actually been the (rumoured?) key element in winning battles. (And when we get to the inferiority of the Spearmen in this scenario, just give them Pikes, and they keep on having a role on the battlefield.)

Of course, the idea of more armour options is always welcome. Although I actually think that all GW warriors have Light Armour, and those with "Light" actually have "Medium". Then Heavy, then Full Plate... It's a matter of simplification: if no-one goes naked, drop that column. (Yeah, I know, some do actually go naked... My bad...)

Generally, I think one basic Empire infantryman with options for weapons, armour, shield & drill would be the best solution. So, this idea is merely for Halberd as a weapon.

Your thoughts? Anyone familiar with Grenadier's FW?

Disclaimer: I'm a simulationist and "fluffist", dunno about game balance really. looking for a reason for Halberdiers to be equipped with just those weapons (spears would be cheaper and easier to use), and with visibly Medium armour.

-Z
Title: Re: Halberdiers as in Nick Lund's Fantasy Warriors?
Post by: Derek Contyre on February 08, 2010, 10:40:52 AM
That is a good idea but it really doesn't solve the halberdier problem of light armour, maybe if there was an option for heavy armour and then your great weapon/spear combo.

But great weapons, swords, axes etc. are quite large, while a halberd is really a chop/stab weapon, so I think it would work better as a spear, but maybe with a particular bonus.
Title: Re: Halberdiers as in Nick Lund's Fantasy Warriors?
Post by: Batu on February 13, 2010, 09:00:47 PM
Remember the problem with the Halbierd isnt the weapon itself the weapon is a viable choice for most other armies (like the Pheonix Guard and chaos warriors) the problem is that the Empires armour save doesnt allow them the ability to use the weapon.

Giving them full plate, while getting rid of the shield, would go along way to fixing the problem, and historically the halbierdier was in plate armour.
Title: Re: Halberdiers as in Nick Lund's Fantasy Warriors?
Post by: Zygmund on February 15, 2010, 01:38:56 PM
Remember the problem with the Halbierd isnt the weapon itself the weapon is a viable choice for most other armies (like the Pheonix Guard and chaos warriors) the problem is that the Empires armour save doesnt allow them the ability to use the weapon.

Ummm...

The idea I presented above would allow them to use Great Weapons in charge and against enemies you think would not kill too many of the first rank. Otherwise, they could use spears , thus enabling them to strike with the (probably alive) second rank. So, I think this idea really lets them use their weapons, to their advantage, and in a more versatile manner.

See?

Naturally, everybody would be better off with heavier armour. I wholeheartedly agree that halberdies should have the option of heavy armour, with appropriate point cost.

-Z
Title: Re: Halberdiers as in Nick Lund's Fantasy Warriors?
Post by: Derek Contyre on February 17, 2010, 07:27:45 AM
Yeah but if they gave a great weapon status to 'act as' a halberd, what do our beloved under par elite greatswordsmen get?
Title: Re: Halberdiers as in Nick Lund's Fantasy Warriors?
Post by: Zygmund on February 28, 2010, 07:15:44 PM
Yeah but if they gave a great weapon status to 'act as' a halberd, what do our beloved under par elite greatswordsmen get?

WS 4, Full Plate, Stubborn?  :wink:  That should do for the extra points.

-Z
Title: Re: Halberdiers as in Nick Lund's Fantasy Warriors?
Post by: Fandir Nightshade on March 01, 2010, 08:25:32 AM
I really like your suggestion.

It would make them perfect detachments and mother regiments imagine how they could either be used to take a charge or to countercharge, you could give them shields and make them the overall all around state troopers....well but nobody will ever take spears again.
Title: Re: Halberdiers as in Nick Lund's Fantasy Warriors?
Post by: StealthKnightSteg on March 01, 2010, 05:36:21 PM
I really like your suggestion.

It would make them perfect detachments and mother regiments imagine how they could either be used to take a charge or to countercharge, you could give them shields and make them the overall all around state troopers....well but nobody will ever take spears again.

To keep it in the fluff and to make sure spears won't be too obsolete, what about:

Spears: Fight in 2 ranks (always as it is a thrusting weapon)

Halberds: When charged/charging first turn fight in 2 ranks (as 2 ranks can brace for impact with the halberds acting as spears and be used as 2 ranks of dealing thrusting impact) and subsequent turns +1 strength with both hands and fight in 1 rank (the chopping part).

Shields for defense at shooting
Title: Re: Halberdiers as in Nick Lund's Fantasy Warriors?
Post by: Border Lord on April 21, 2010, 04:15:19 PM
I agree with StealthKnightSteg.
Title: Re: Halberdiers as in Nick Lund's Fantasy Warriors?
Post by: Inarticulate on April 22, 2010, 11:38:13 PM
I think its a decent idea.

But give spears pikes instead to make up for it.
Title: Re: Halberdiers as in Nick Lund's Fantasy Warriors?
Post by: wolfsbreath on April 26, 2010, 09:18:06 AM
Think its a decent idea,

Though the spears should be pikes and I dont see how you can have shields with a 2 handed weapon. It would just get in the way and be more of a hinderance than a help.

The way round this would be to give them plate armour (halbediers that is) as standard, maybe if you want to be picky reduce the movement by an inch.

also allow them to attack in 2 ranks when charged, would be more realistic.
Title: Re: Halberdiers as in Nick Lund's Fantasy Warriors?
Post by: Grudgie on June 05, 2010, 06:58:02 PM
I like the idea but they shouldn't be full great weapons. Just +1S and armour piercing. They aren't fully great weapons but aren't fully spears either. They shouldn't get the best of both worlds.

I like just having a universal pole arm special rule that counts halberds and spears as defended obstacles when charged to the front.

Grudgie.