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The General Archive => Empire Army Book 8th Edition => Topic started by: Draccan on October 16, 2010, 06:48:46 PM

Title: Bring back the fantasy to Empire
Post by: Draccan on October 16, 2010, 06:48:46 PM
I would like to have these units again in my Empire army:

* Giants
* Ogres
* Halflings
* (dwarfs)

Also it would be nice to have an Imperial Dragon for a Non Franz general!

oh and I would love to have the War Wagon as well. Though preferably with a unit of handgunners rather than the odd and not so useful mix from before!
Title: Re: Bring back the fantasy to Empire
Post by: ein on October 19, 2010, 10:13:26 PM
I think for Giants and Ogres you're supposed to pick up some allies these days.

Halflings I agree with- but just as a line in units like Archers, Swordsmen and Mortars to provide an alternative profile and a special rule.

For Dwarfs in an Empire Army you could do the same for the Master Engineer- any more and allies is the way to go.

The Imperial Dragon is THE Imperial Dragon.
Title: Re: Bring back the fantasy to Empire
Post by: Johedl on October 28, 2010, 08:17:53 PM
I do not think the gigant fits in the Empire these days. It is just to alien to survive the church of Sigmar.
Ogres can still be bought as rare due to the dog of war rule in their army book. I think?
Halflings would be nice! I have a bunch of them as archers in my Stirland army but their own stats would fit into the fluff. Perhaps as a special unit.
I agree with ein on dwarfs, they are better as an allied army than an unit choice. 
Title: Re: Bring back the fantasy to Empire
Post by: Redstorm Rising on October 31, 2010, 11:11:21 AM
There is really no need for dragons, ogres and giants in my eyes, but i totally agree to the halflings. They are a part of the Empire and should be selectable for our army. 0-1 core unit without counting to core points. 5-20 skirmishing archers with normal bows, experienced in woods and so on.

On the other side they would have to change the bowmen of the empire. A good thing would be to give them longbows and scout ability (and no scouting ability for the halflings to include some important differences between the units).

The War-Wagon would be a cool rejoin.
Title: Re: Bring back the fantasy to Empire
Post by: Wolfgang aus Wien on November 07, 2010, 03:41:35 PM
Agree with the OP.
Depending on the type of people you normally play with, this can be accomplished to some extent or another.
For example, my Free Company are BTD Halflings led by a BTD Dwarf captain, my Greatswords are Mirliton/Grenadier Elves.
They do use current 'normal' stats, but also provide a little bit of that 'multicultural' look that was so cool about pre-6th edition Empire.
Title: Re: Bring back the fantasy to Empire
Post by: Warlord on November 08, 2010, 03:54:56 AM
Halflings (+Hot Pot), Kislev (all unit types) and War Wagon should be brought back into the Empire.

Of these, I only think the War Wagon will make it in 8th ed.

Ogres, Giants and Dwarfs belong in other armies, and allies should not be frowned upon like they are currently.
Title: Re: Bring back the fantasy to Empire
Post by: Clymer on December 27, 2010, 12:24:21 AM
Sorry for the thread resurrection, but I've been wondering about this lately. Assuming the following:
- GW releasing 2-6 new plastic kits with each army book
- GW releasing a large monster with each new army book
- GW expanding the range of new army books
- GW moving armies as much as possible into plastic
- Empire already existing entirely in plastic and with a good, unified look

What will be replaced?
Probably knights
... and?????

What will be added?
Something big... maybe a War Altar/War Wagon Kit?
Something different... maybe halflings and more?

Anyone have any better guesses/knowledge? Any guesses when the new book will be out? I'm guessing we're looking at 24-36 months.

Title: Re: Bring back the fantasy to Empire
Post by: Wolfgang aus Wien on December 27, 2010, 02:49:06 PM
Won't be that long, Empire is one of the most popular armies and will therefore get a new army book fairly soon.
In 36 months...it'll be almost time for a new edition of the whole game.......
Title: Re: Bring back the fantasy to Empire
Post by: Jerseyboy381 on December 27, 2010, 03:13:09 PM
What will be replaced?
Probably knights
... and?????

Considering the pattern GW has established we are due for some more overpriced Specials.  Look at the greatswords and the new HE kits...$45 for 10 plastic models...the metal ones weren't that much more.  We'll probably get a more detailed State troops box (with the standard price hike) and maybe a box like the wizard one that lets you make plastic warrior priests.  It would also be nice if they brought back a mounted wizard...
Title: Re: Bring back the fantasy to Empire
Post by: Johedl on December 28, 2010, 12:49:41 AM
I think we are going to ne one of the last to get a new army book. The new rules fixed alot of the problems with empire and now we have one of the good lists. When we get one it might only be an upgrade to what we have and as we already have a an all plastic army the new modells will probably be replacements for FC and Knights and demigriffon cavalry and new charcters (Including a new metall war altar).
Title: Re: Bring back the fantasy to Empire
Post by: Clymer on January 19, 2011, 11:53:49 AM
Demi Griffon Cav is an interesting idea... the FW model looks awfully big though, so I would expect a different or at least smaller sculpt if it came to pass. It does fit in nicely with GW's move to more monsters and bigger kits.

I do think the new book is a long way out though. There are already fairly reliable rumors of TK and Ogres getting books soon and I would be surprised if at least two of the following weren't released before a new Empire book: Dwarves, Brettonians, Wood Elves. At 2 books per year, that puts us at least 24 months out. But then again, GW has surprised me before. I certainly wouldn't have guessed that OnG stood a chance to be released this year.

I think we'll keep the state troops for a while though. They're much newer than OnG core choices, and much better, and the OnG core choices won't be replaced, at least not with the Army Book release.
Title: Re: Bring back the fantasy to Empire
Post by: Eisenblume on February 19, 2011, 10:14:14 AM
I don't agree OP. I like the "Men of the Empire" approach. Let the other swagger with the elves or hulk it with the orcs, if you wanna play with Empire then you should have to compete knowing that every single creature out there is stronger than you AND WIN REGARDLESS!  :ph34r:

That is my opinion, as such. =)
Title: Re: Bring back the fantasy to Empire
Post by: Algovil on February 22, 2011, 09:36:20 AM
The only think I find missing in the Empire supply is:

Plastic War Altar

and... no that is it really, the empire clearly has the best variety of all WHFB armies!

Though it would be really nice to see new Knights.

Can not think of anything more!!!

They really are the perfectly designed army to me. And bringing in monsters and such only takes away from the other armies, I like to see varied armies with different themes. Not just different looks. Skaven for example is on the verge of having too many choices IMHO, but they are fine I guess! Giving empire access to monsterous infantery, monsters etc, would make it possible to build an army without statetroopers, or without warmachines both which are unthinklable :) The theme now is perfect! GW should not have to increase the unit choices of all armiers because there are always some choices better than others anyway, instead focus on a theme for each armies, and balance them!

Title: Re: Bring back the fantasy to Empire
Post by: jaggedjimmyj on March 25, 2011, 09:41:37 AM
I don't agree OP. I like the "Men of the Empire" approach. Let the other swagger with the elves or hulk it with the orcs, if you wanna play with Empire then you should have to compete knowing that every single creature out there is stronger than you AND WIN REGARDLESS!  :ph34r:

That is my opinion, as such. =)

I agree. I like the empire because of the lack of fantasy elements in our army, the whole struggle for survival in a hostile world thingy. I'm not very keen on big monsters, ogres of empire giants.

We rilly need new state troop models, the ones we have are awful.
I can live with the current knights since they, unlike the state troops, actually rank up.
What I'd like to see though is a mid priced state troop unit type at 7-8 points that can replace the free company (if anything). Not sure what it'd be tho'.
Title: Re: Bring back the fantasy to Empire
Post by: Shield of Freedom on May 19, 2011, 07:19:15 PM
I think it would be neat to see:

Halfling archer units that can use feigned flight.

Melee state troops (not including Greatswords) to be able to take ONE Ogre as an upgrade (think Kroxigor in Skink unit).  He must be placed in the second row as centrally as possible, can make his standard of 3 supporting attacks as monsterous infantry, etc.  Let Free Company take two!

A plastic Warwagon/War Alter kit in one box.

New Knight models.

Otherwise, yeah.  The book is pretty solid. 

Don't forget that magic items will be severely reduced if the Orcs and Goblins and the Tomb Kings books are any indication.  Be prepared for that.  It looks like one from each catagory.
Title: Re: Bring back the fantasy to Empire
Post by: Claus79 on May 20, 2011, 12:55:36 PM
GW is currently releasing a Fantasy army book every second month, and a 40K one every other.. so even if empire is far down the line.. it wont be as bad as... well as it always was.. at least thats one thing GW has managed to actually improve upon.. on the other hand.. no option for a softback army book....

Claus
Title: Re: Bring back the fantasy to Empire
Post by: Derek Contyre on May 22, 2011, 09:06:13 AM
I would love to see some Kislev units in the empire army, that would make me happy. Or even better, a Kislev army book... I would buy them straight away  :biggriin:
Title: Re: Bring back the fantasy to Empire
Post by: Athiuen on June 20, 2011, 12:51:59 AM
I disagree with you all, not that I wouldn't like to see some interesting combinations like:
Customisable Knightly Orders
Halflings
Race specific Regiments of Renown

But GW has not been expanding with their new releases.  Everything we've seen so for has added very little and taken away so much more.
Items are being simplified, race specific special rules are being destroyed and replaced with near equivalents from the main rules.

With GW's recent ban on Maelstrom Games exporting to other countries, and the fact that i'm a poor student, I'm having a hard time even seeing myself buying anything from them in the near future.
Title: Re: Bring back the fantasy to Empire
Post by: Forsaken on June 28, 2011, 03:52:49 AM
 :dry: iIwould like to see the halflings come back as 0-1 choice. But the dwarfs and ogers were removed from the list becouse players quit takeing the human part of the empire army. I use dwarfs as allies my allied dwarf or Empire Dwarfs collection are as follows and ogers can still be taken as a rare. I think Pikes if taken should be count as a special choice. and yes spears were used in the early 15th century pikes did not begin to take hold untill the early to mid 16th century, 1400s and 1500s.

Master Enginner

Core
1 unit of Thunderers
1 Unit of Quarrlers
1 unit of Rangers
1 unit of warriors

Special
1 Cannon
1 unit of slayers i happen to like the models

Rare
1 organ gun
1 Gryocopter
Title: Re: Bring back the fantasy to Empire
Post by: Wolfgang aus Wien on October 23, 2011, 02:29:04 PM
Yes, I'm sure I want to reply.....

The reason why people quit taking humans in their Empire armies is powergaming, pure and simple.
In the heady days of 5th edition, you could see Goblin armies with a grand total of one (1) single Goblin: the General.
The rest?
10 Giants (represented by 1 plastic Battlemaster Ogre and 9 empty monster bases, the guy couldn't actually afford 10 Giant models)

Or Empire armies with more cannon than the Normandy defenses in 1944. And hardly a Halberdier in sight......

Bretonnian armies of Knights, Knights, Knights and more Knights.
Perhaps a few archers (the ones that came in the basic box, no more....), 0 infantry.

The list goes on.

To some extent, this problem has been adressed with the core/special/rare division, but determined cheesemeisters can still cheese quite liberally indeed.
For example, to my way of thinking, Knights can NEVER be 'core' in any army. Goes against everything the word 'Knight' stands for.
Don't even get me started on special characters, who would, realistically, never even get out of bed for anything smaller than a 5000 point battle.
Title: Re: Bring back the fantasy to Empire
Post by: Inarticulate on October 30, 2011, 06:39:39 PM
If I had my way, I'd get rid of Wizards, Steam tanks, Griffons and Outriders.

Damn kids with their fantasy. Grumble grumble.
Title: Re: Bring back the fantasy to Empire
Post by: Thomas Aagaard on October 31, 2011, 12:15:06 AM
Actually the scots, the swiss and Flemings all used long spears well before the 16th century.
Title: Re: Bring back the fantasy to Empire
Post by: Silic on October 31, 2011, 03:27:42 AM
I wouldn't be against the Empire taking a more high fantasy route for the army book; think Warmachine's Arcane Gun Mages.

Really... lets keep the halflings out of our army list.
Title: Re: Bring back the fantasy to Empire
Post by: malladin_ben on November 03, 2011, 04:08:54 PM
Some rumours I've heard:

1. Empire is going to be the next but one or two, probably April next year (Vamps in Jan, so maybe another in feb or march).
2. We're also due a WD update like the Vamps got in the summer. This will probably include a new war altar and new warrior priest rules, including (and this is the bit I'm really excited about) priests of ulric and morr.
3. I've also heard of a new war wagon, demigryph cavalry and priestess of myrmidia, but I'm not sure whether these are due in teh update or just in the army book.

What I'd like to see:
1. custmisable knights, a bit like the maneaters with their "pick two special rules", although possibly some variable +1 stat options, so that you can build your own knightly orders. I'd also like to see the fluffy orders specified as to what rules combos they get, but perhaps a point cheaper as a result.
2. Halflings - I like halflings, and they're there in the fluff, but I'd like to see them done with a bit more grit and a bit less of the "comedy fat man". My suggestion would be skirmishing sling guys, like the field wardens in 2nd ed roleplay (they might be in the other editions too, but my knowledge is limited to 2nd)
3. A war altar that you can push around with a unit of flagellants like a screaming bell (but possibly this is just because I have one as a conversion).
4. minor fluffy bonuses for different regions, possibly that you had to swap the detachments rule to make use of, possibly attributed through special characters like space marines special characters. For example, if you select johnny forrest, a talabecland special character you can choose to give all the units in your army the forest strider and river strider special rules, but if you do so they cannot make use of the detachments special rules.

Cheerio,

Ben
Title: Re: Bring back the fantasy to Empire
Post by: Derek Contyre on November 09, 2011, 09:00:12 PM

For the new Empire I wouldn't mind dwarfs and halflings.
But make them rare choices. I mean, they would be rare in an Imperial Army(unless your dwarfs are manning all your cannon crews) as the Empire is a little racist to them.

I would love the Empire to be allowed Kislevite units, lots more light and heavy cav options, with some more infantry with different weapons rather than our state troops.
Just to add a little more flavour to it.
Title: Re: Bring back the fantasy to Empire
Post by: Wolfgang aus Wien on November 10, 2011, 12:17:24 PM
Halflings as specials, Dwarves and Ogres as rares sounds about right.
Maybe restricted to 1 unit of such per 2000 points
Title: Re: Bring back the fantasy to Empire
Post by: Tengel on November 11, 2011, 07:55:10 PM
I think, halflings should be specials for human provincial armies.
But for me the idea of providing different choise for different armies (as it used to be in the 6th ed.) sounds great.
For the army of Moot the situation should be vice-versa. Halfling units are core, human core units are special, human special units are rare. Human rare units are forbidden.
Then, halfling units might be like that:
-- Infantry w\bows
-- Infantry w\spears
-- Warmashine, Hot pot (may be special?), looking more like a catapult, rather than a slingshot
-- Halfling wizard (probably lores of life, beasts, metal only)
-- Halfling captain\lord

That would be an army of good fun
Title: Re: Bring back the fantasy to Empire
Post by: Nils Ingvar on March 01, 2012, 01:33:11 PM
I know im a bit late on this thread but you  can easily have ogres in an imperial army as ogres are mercenaries. There is also an Imperial Ogre Maneater model on games workshop. So having them in your army shouldn't be a problem nor is it against the lore either.