Topic: Up-to-date Empire Army Book Rumor Compilation

[Gary]

Short question about the new HBVG. So the S5 is for the whole range up to 24", but for the fact that there are no more autohits is there a longe range penalty for the HBVG?
Some say yes, some say no. Any proofed information? Because if there isn´t, it aint got nerfed that bad.

Obviously I can't say with any authority, but if it is subject to having to roll to hit now, then I would suspect all 'to hit' penalties would apply just like to all other such shooting attacks. To rule otherwise would require a specific caveat in the rules. Not to say they wouldn't add it, but personally I doubt it very much.

Cheers, Gary

[erik maas]

i'll trie and find out next friday

[Midaski]

I've moved the 'army list' from here to the Parade Ground.

That is the place for new and prospective lists - NOT in this thread.

[Mark Perry]

Checked out the book today, all pretty much as posted but did notice that Holy Relic is still 45 pts still. HBVG if I remember right is roll for hits as normal then use the BS of the troops with ALL NORMAL MODS.

I will never take a HBVG now it is SHITE.

Won a 2K game against STINKS tho he had nothing that could harm the stank

[Lord Wyant]

I know the issue of animosity over the lack of recognition of the CoU list and Army of Middenheim is nothing new, but after reading some of the entries on the topic I can't help but weigh in on the matter. I am a big fan of the army of Middenland, and so I too feel the frustration of my fellow CoU and AoM fans. I understand that  the banning of their use only applies to UK tournaments, but I can't help but feel that it is the fact that I would need permission to use such lists by my opponent that bothers me. I believe that if GW "blessed" at least the AoM with the same respect as it does the full approved use of the mainstream Empire Army (or any other army), then all would be fine. Even just a mention of the legal use in the NEB would have been nice.

[Lord Wyant]

  What I think would have been neat would have been the option to customize troop choices under the core, special and rare categories, i.e.   to switch using TTG over Greatswords or Wolkin over flagellants to create the desired army theme.

[Rune]

  What I think would have been neat would have been the option to customize troop choices under the core, special and rare categories, i.e.   to switch using TTG over Greatswords or Wolkin over flagellants to create the desired army theme.

Well, we still can do that, and I certainly will at some point if people really start complaining over using CoU. Not a bad idea, really, but it's still not the Cult.

AND we're still lacking the doggies. The puppies, my friend, the puppies...  Someone had this idea of using DoW light cavalry rules for the hounds, but then again the Dogs of War option from the rare has been dissapearing from the recent army books, and every omen is pointing towards a future without Dogs of War units at all, save for giants and ogres. Possibly some allied continent systems or dogs of war army book in some distant reality.

[Dendo Star]

Warhammer website has the DoW "armybook" as a download.  It states which units can be in an Empire Army, and what slots they take up.  Until GW says otherwise, we can use DoW.  Unless they type "EMPIRE CANNOT USE DOGS OF WAR FORCES."  Which they won't.

[Lord Wyant]

Considering the Army of Middenland list is based on 6th ed rules, how will the NEB rules affect the AoM list for those choosing to continue using the list ( like myself). The way the AoM list is set up, it assumes the same rules writeups for empire state troops and Knights as is in the empire rulebook as such units are not specified differently in SoC. This poses an interesting question when it comes to Knights. Would Knight choices for the AoM list made IC then be considered to be specials? If not, and your answer is to use the list with the 6th ed. rules, does that mean not using the lower points cost for state troops? Can one use the benefits of the old list to debunk the upgrade to IC being special while using the benefit of lower points cost for state troops. Without recognition of CoU or AoM as feasible lists in the NEB, it more than leaves such lists as less official but makes them broken. To all my fellow AoM and CoU players, I too feel your frustration.

Oh, another thing, Would the White Wolf Hammer still maintain its rules for the TTG as in the SoC, as well for the WW knights, or would the WW Knights have to be considered regular or IC knights w\ great weapons per the NEB, while TTG maintains the whte wolf hammer rules per SoC?

My biggest issue w\ AoM being unofficial is that I find the TTG much more appealing than the greatswords, I like the figures themselves better. They have a more rugged look. The greatswords pale in comparison. I guess I could use them as a second greatswords unit though given that is more or less what they are now anyway considering the WW hammer is now just an ordinary great weapon. I have to wonder though, since they are dismounted knights then the IC option would still be open to them, does that mean they could be S6? (S4 IC + greatweapon at 12 points given 10 pts ea for greatswords +2 per model for IC)

[Patch]

Inner Circle Greatswords? I'll drink to that! 

[Will Waddington]

About the dogs of war,

My brother collects ogre kingdoms, and in the book it says:
" If the entry for a given Ogre unit type has the special rule, Dogs of War, they may be taken in a warhammer army with the option of taking dogs of war as rare choice."
Since the new O&G book dosen't have them as an option for a rare choice, and probaly the NEB won't have it, does this mean we can't take Ogres?

[Patch]

The Village Idiot has the NEB! Everyones bombarding him with questions, so there may be a [dis-]orderly que forming!

[Mark Perry]

About the dogs of war,

My brother collects ogre kingdoms, and in the book it says:
" If the entry for a given Ogre unit type has the special rule, Dogs of War, they may be taken in a warhammer army with the option of taking dogs of war as rare choice."
Since the new O&G book dosen't have them as an option for a rare choice, and probably the NEB won't have it, does this mean we can't take Ogres?

The GW web site had DOW and ROR (Regiments of Renown) rules on listed on it which you can download. Each ROR states which army's it can work with, and which slot they take up.

Until GW updates the DOW book that should be the rules to run with

Hope that helps

[Rune]

There.

That means we can indeed use DoW light cavalry in rare as hunting hounds. Take that, no-CoU people!

[Talonz]

Wow...I wish I had read all of this a few weeks ago when I started to recollect my empire army...sheez.

Who the heck is writing this crap? I can live with some of the changes, but alot of them (helblaster for example) are completely unnecesary and what do we get in return? goofy clockwork horse, goofy outriders, goofy engineer equipment...totally lame.

Im hard pressed to bother buying the new book, playing with my very good 6th ed book seems just fine to me.

[Marcus_Octavius]

About the dogs of war,

My brother collects ogre kingdoms, and in the book it says:
" If the entry for a given Ogre unit type has the special rule, Dogs of War, they may be taken in a warhammer army with the option of taking dogs of war as rare choice."
Since the new O&G book dosen't have them as an option for a rare choice, and probaly the NEB won't have it, does this mean we can't take Ogres?

while this is very silly, the wording does make it illegal to use ogres in the new books!  that said, all tournaments save those who restrict DoW all together of GW tournaments who follow the "Rule as Written" concept will be the onyl folks not allowign them in your army.  if there is a question, ask the organizer or shop keeper, but usualyl they won't care as it is not unfair to thers and would be unfair to you to restrict the units.

[Stryder]

So does anyone know if they are making a new war altar or is the old one just being re-released?

[Warlord]

Is there a point to further updating this thread? It would be a mammoth task, also with TVI's NEB thread...

[General Lee Stupid]

So is GW still going to make the old models?  I can't find any spearmen in the GW store.

[Mark Perry]

So is GW still going to make the old models?  I can't find any spearmen in the GW store.

No probably not, but you should still be able to get them on-line, GW still has loads left and will flog them in the "Classic section" I imagine

[JohnHwangEmp]

ogre kingdoms says:
" If the entry for a given Ogre unit type has the special rule, Dogs of War, they may be taken in a warhammer army with the option of taking dogs of war as rare choice."
Since the new O&G book dosen't have them as an option for a rare choice, and probaly the NEB won't have it, does this mean we can't take Ogres?

Sorta.  Neither Empire nor O&G can take Ogres because they don't have the option of taking DoW as a Rare. This is either a major oversight of the OK book, or else it's a major rethink of how Ogres fit into the various armies with Empire and O&G are the first books to see the change.

I suspect the latter. 

The RH DoW list still allows armies to take generic Ogres, so those would be available to Empire along 4with Golfag.  However "special" Ogres like Bulls, Ironguts, Leadbelchers, and Maneaters would all be illegal to most armies.

This change forces O&G to take their native Trolls, and Empire to take Machines instead of brutes.  I suspect Chaos will be forced to take their native Minotaurs & Chaos Ogres, the Skaven will have their Rat Ogres, Wood Elves have Treekin, and the Lizardmen their Kroxes.  The Dark Elves should get DE-specific Ogre-class models of their own (Fimir?) to extend their Monster Mash options.  The High Elves should be like Empire and lose the option to field non-Elfy OK Ogres. 

This isn't really a bad thing, as the Ogres just get a lot more army specific and thematic.

[Traumaron]

Straight from the NEB:

Special Characters:

Lords:
1. The Emperor Karl Franz (350 pts base).  Can take different mounts including Deathclaw (+225), Imperial Dragon (+320), Imperial Pegasus (+50), or Barded Warhorse (+21).
2. Kurt Helborg
3. Grand Theolognist Volkmar
4. Balthasar Gelt

Heroes:
1. Ludwig Schwarzhelm
2. Luthor Hess

Flagellant Warband (Rare)
10pts/model
                            M  WS  BS  S  T  W  I  A  LD
Flagellant                4    2    2   3  3   1  3  1  10
Prophet of Doom     4    2    2   3  3   1  3  2  10

Crazed:  Use Frenzy Rules
The End is Nigh!:  Sacrafice flagellants to create Martys.  Roll 1d3 and to see how many die.  The result depends on the number.

1  The flagellants hate all enemies
2  The flagellants may re-roll failed rolls to wound
3  Add +1 to the flagellants combat resolution at the end of close combat

Effects last till the end of the close combat phase and are cumulative

[Traumaron]

Master Engineer cannot join Hellblaster or Hellstorm

"-weapons are still too experimental for anyone to be an expert with"  pg. 46 NEB

[Traumaron]

So is GW still going to make the old models?  I can't find any spearmen in the GW store.

The new Empire State Troops can be made into Swordsman, Spearman or Halberdiers.  10 to a box

[Traumaron]

With regard to the steam Tank, the current system of armour points is in essence the same

25 Armour Points roll D 6 for each point and add the total if less than armour points then fine if over then damage.

The new system may be less complicated, but we will have to wait to see the details before we know how the tank has been affected.

With such an expensive unit you need to protect it until it can get into a position it can hurt the enemy ie impact hits and firing into combat. I use a unit of Nilla Knights to screen it until it can get into battle.

I suppose you could use a Lore of Light Spell to give it a Ward save?

Warrior Priests and the Arch Lector are going to be the mainstay for most players I think the wizard will depend on who your facing as to if you use him or not, the same for the Captain on a Pegasus with the Casket.

I like the idea of using the War Alter and the Stank as 2 units that can give impact hits, I think the tactics will have to be thought through tho. With Hatred I will be attacking more as we have a greater chance of inflicting damage on our opponents and still benefit from the supporting charge of the Detachment.

Against Skaven and Horde army's I think the tactics will stay the same but I think I will try a few co-ordinated charges across the battle line just before I'm charged as I think the new hatred rules will give us a better chance of success.

With the HBVG seriously down graded I will use either 2 cannons or 2 mortars.

I found this article recently but I think the NEB over rules it now:
http://uk.games-workshop.com/empire/steam-tank/2/