Topic: The City State of NULN

[wissenlander]

I just did a little bit of research, and this was found due to me reading some fluff from Giladis.  The Toppenheimers were the ruling family of Sudenland and handed it over to Wissenland.  If we can make the conclusion that Sudenland=Solland (which is difficult, but let's just say so) then the Toppenheimers could indeed have Solland tendancies.

[Karl Voss of Averland]

I thought the only difference between Sudenland and Solland was a change in fluff? As in the started calling Sudenland in the begining but changed it to Solland?

[wissenlander]

Sort of...

Sudenland was a province sandwiched between Averland and Wissenland in 3rd edition (and I believe earlier), much as Solland was.  Once 4th edition hit, Sudenland never existed and GW created Solland.  However, the whole existence of Solland was based upon it's destruction.  It was never a 'living' province under GW fluff. 

In some regards they could be considered the same but they really aren't.  Solland was destroyed over 800 years ago IC and Sudenland was just recently (50 years or less) absorbed back into Wissenland.  Sudenland actually was a later developing province as well IIRC, based upon noble deeds in the Great War against Chaos.  So it wasn't one of the originals during the time of Sigmar.  Not until the latest Empire book did they attempt to reconcile the Sudenland issue, saying that it was Sollanders that remained independent and referred to it as such.

That started the simplification of WFB and the Empire.  It was very much more complicated and Holy Roman Empireesque.

[Karl Voss of Averland]

Interesting, them Wissenlanders are an Ornery bunch aren't they? So it is the Sollanders that wanted to split back into a province called Sudenland (different from Solland in location as in along the Upper Reik?) during the Storm of Chaos? I'm sure they aren't happy that Kurt Helborg is riding around with their Runefang aswell.

Let's just call it: Sudenissenolland? 

[wissenlander]

I don't really know if it was a Solland plot to get a province back, but that's what happened.  I think Critical Hit has some info on Sudenland, and it might be a decent enough source to find out about it.  It's really confusing, and it's hard to get a handle on sometimes.

And no, Sollanders don't like the Reiksmarshal with the Runefang. Veldemere is quite upset that Kurt has 'his' sword.

[offroadfury88]

Yeah but critical hit isn't official fluff. Use it if you want, but I would go with GW everytime, even if it is inconsistent.

[Giladis]

Maybe I can shed a little light with a short chronology.

0-1707 Imperial Province of Solland

1712 Province of Solland is divided between Wissenland and Averland with the majority going to Wissenland.

2303 Due to their actions in the great war against chaos emperor Magnus grants Mecklenburg family Electoral status and creates for them the province of Sudenland. It is exclusevly made out of most of Sollands territories in Wissenland along with a small triangle of Wissenlands land between rivers Sol and Upper Reik

2505 The Mecklenburg counts abdicate and transfer the Electoral Status upon their cousins the Toppenheimers

2515 The Toppenheimers abdicate their Electoral Status and the province is joined back with Wissenland

Both these abdications were under unknown circumstances

Though some might speculate that it had something to do with the rise of power of Grand Countess Emmanuelle von Liebewitz of Nuln to the rank of Elector Countess of Wissenland in 2514 and Emperors potential interest in her. Ensuring her to get as much land as possible before marrying her would have been a prudent move that GW might have though of in the past but forgot.

[wissenlander]

Is that from WFRP v. 1?  I don't think I've ever seen such a timeline in one place, and it probably isn't.  Just curious.

[Giladis]

Is that from WFRP v. 1?  I don't think I've ever seen such a timeline in one place, and it probably isn't.  Just curious.

I created this timeline based on the information available to me from WHFB, WHFRP v. 1 & 2.

I am waiting for Sigmar's Heir to arrive over the next few months. 

[wissenlander]

Cool, thanks for the info.  You'll like Sigmar's Heirs, Giladis.

[Johann Q Peasant]

New Nuln Player here,


I like to think of an army theme before jumping in.  The Nuln River Guard was created when I decided that I wanted a Nuln army, but with distinct flavor.  It's not directly from Nuln, but from the town of Grissenwald, which is a town north of Nuln upon the Reik River, near the border with Reikland.  The paint scheme will be a the Nuln black with a bit of Reikland Red as trim.  I plan on using them without as much guns as a Nuln army, as the river guard cant afford same forces as the State troops from the City.

Why not all red? Well, I already had a unit of Free Company that used to be mordheim pirates, and their main color was red.  And I like Red and black.  I'm just going to need alot of practice painting...

[GamesPoet]

I like your idea.  Although I believe Reikland's main color is white, not red.

[Johann Q Peasant]

I like your idea.  Although I believe Reikland's main color is white, not red.

Whoops There Red and white banner threw me off.  Well, now its because they like red. 

[Union General]

Perhaps...
It could be simply the fact that they are not part of the Reikland State Troops per se, but wish to keep ties with the province of Reikland whilst maintaining their ties to Nuln.
Good idea, though. 

[Sigmar's son]

How do you do Giladis?
You were waiting for my arrival were you?
well here I am

[Aiglos]

Okay I really want to make a Warhammer army based on lore so it actually makes sense.  For Nuln, I'm still a little unclear on the type of soldiers I need.  Do I just need riflemen and pikesmen mainly?  I am looking to build a 2k point army in the near future and would like a little direction for this army.  Thanks!

[GamesPoet]

There are likely some Nuln based army lists in the Parade Ground area of these forums.

It is my understanding military units that use gunpowder are common for Nuln, and this could include things like handgunners, pistoliers, outriders, and various types of artillery.  The use of pikes and half pikes is also common, although perhaps this can be represented by units of spears for certain competitions.  However, there is no reason in my mind why you couldn't use other types of units as well because I suspect there could be other types possible, although perhaps in lesser quantity then one might find in other armies.

[der Hurenwiebel]

With all the talk about wissenland being poor and Emmanuelle being the current absentee countess of it I got to thinking of the provinces proximity to the southern mountains.  I got to thinking about this especially considering our own world's geological world wide phenomena, and living in the Canadian province of Alberta, I've got to ask does wissenland have all hell for a basement?  If so would the college of engineers in Nuln have an interest in sending out Steam engines and steam powerplants to drill for that devilish commodity to fuel their machinery of war.  If so, seperation and an absentee countess who disregards the inhabitants, may be encouraged from the Wissenlander's side.  Especially if they aren't seeing what they perceive as their fair share of the rewards from their own resources.  Suddenly in my own mind there are all kinds of story arcs involving entrepeneurial engineer college graduates, combining forces with merchant prince venture capitalists, mercenary captain security professionals, oh my oh my what fun.  Especially when the sleepy snob herself realizes the error of her assumption of the poverty and dullness of her province after it tries to seperate from her, while the engineers guild silly tinkerers that they are sob, cry, and beg her not to let them.  This is not even counting the Emperor himself becoming interested in the goings on of wissenland, and demands his cut of the pie. 

[wissenlander]

Halibergen and Schwarzwasser employees crawling all over the place.

[der Hurenwiebel]

Yup and "Schnell Wissenland", "PetroSolland",  I could see it as a whole Fluff campaign, confused orcs, and wood elves watching as teams of empire engineers drill deeeeeeeeep holes only to pointlessly dynamite them and have Amber wizards meditating about the earth on nearby hilltops.  All while the imperial corps of surveyors carefully map the terrain far more intricately that seems sensible.  Eventually they would, of course, become bored of simply watching, (about as long as it takes to sneak up on the surveyors anyways) and attack.  I think I want to build a steam punk oil derrick, complete with landesknecht roughnecks, motorhand and Toolpush.  This would have to consist of several steam engine chassis to move the tower provide power to the drill move the crew's portable homes etc. 

Later on of course the wissenlanders will have the prayer " Lord Sigmar please let there be another oil boom, and this time I promise I will not just piss it away"

[Inarticulate]

Well currently there's a civil war going on in Wissenland, so rather perfect for some entrepreneurial Merchant Engineer to take advantage of the current situation!

Drop by the Solland thread!

[der Hurenwiebel]

been reading up and catching up on the story lines you've got going on there and am wishing I had an extra 12 hours a day to dedicate to writing here as well as the other "day job" stuff I've got to do. oh well I'll just have to sit on the idea for a while then

[Burgermeiser]

I have a touch over 2500pts of Nuln. People whine about the excessive artillery but what is Nuln all about.

They're just jealous 'cause they don't have as many guns! 

[Burgermeiser]

I too have heard of Liebwitz making advances on the Emperor, but I'm not sure where I heard it. Knowing the bad fluff writers from GW, they might just marry off Franz to her in some bad story. They should hire some of the fluff writers from here

Here is what Sigmar's Heirs says about Nuln and Liebwitz:

Niln is a city-state, technically free of Wissenland, but still owing allegiance to its Elector Count. This poses little problem for the freewheeling people of the city, for the Elector of Wissenland is also Countess of Nuln. Emmanuelle von Leibwitz, still beautiful in her middle age, loves Nuln and spends almost all her time there, giving grand balls and hosting dinners that last for days. She barely conceals her contempt for the "po-faced burghers" and the utter boredom that tortures her when she has to attend to provincial business. To rid herself of dreary Wissenland, Countess von Leibwitz is negotiating with the emperor to completely separate Nuln and Wissenland. She would retain Nuln and her electoral vote, whilst the province would be given to the Toppenheimer family, which would also receive an electoral vote. All this would be dine in return for large loans to the Emperor's war coffers, a strategy she is coordinating with her colleague in Talabheim.

So this indicates that basicly Leibwitz is like those spoiled brats on MTV's Sweet Sixteen. She could doesn't care about Wissenland in the slightest and would rather pay the Emperor (Bribe) to have control of Nuln. The Toppenheimer Family, headed by Baroness Molly Toppenheimer would take over should Leibwitz take Nuln.

The Gazetteer says these people control the cities
Wissenburg-Elector Countess Emmanuelle von Leibwitz
Geschburg-Baroness Molly Toppenheimer
Kreutzhofen- Count Pfeifraucher
Kropenleben- Baron Johan von Kalb
Meissen-Elector Countess Emmanuelle von Leibwitz
Pfeildorf (former capital of Solland) - Baroness Molly Toppenheimer
Scharmbeck- Baron Vincentus Preiss
Sonnefurt- Baroness Katrina von Heisenberg
Steingart-Baron Frederich Herbart
Wusterburg- Baron Manfred von Eigenhof

It seems that the Solland family (maybe some ties) would return to power if Nuln broke away. The Toppenheimers wouldn't have a military force to compete with Leibwitz's army of Nuln if she wanted to break away via force, or if the Toppenheimers wanted to resist her succession. From what I read, some of the other towns want to break away and become chartered free towns also. Where do you think Graf Olenbay's loyalties would lie?

Sounds like a campaign idea? 

~Karl Voss of Averland

I read somewhere about Karl Franz already has a wife and two children. They'd have to kill the wife off first. 

[Burgermeiser]

Well, the Knights of the Blazing Sun appeal to me - and their Black/Gold stands out from, but doesn't clash with, the state troops' Black/White uniforms.

But I was curious which orders are close to Nuln.

The only one I know of based primarily in Nuln is the Knights Griffon. Technically, they're like Space Marine chapters from 40k. You can make up your own if you want, I try to stick to the established ones, but the only ones close to Nuln are from what I've gathered, the Knights Griffon (though they moved their main chapter house to Altdorf), the Knights Panther (possibly since they are the father order of the Knights Griffon), and the Knights of the Blazing Sun (who are everywhere in the Empire, especially after the advent of Warhammer Online where you can be a Blazing Sun Knight!)