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Author Topic: It's only fair...  (Read 4631 times)

Offline VDK

  • Posts: 24
It's only fair...
« Reply #25 on: July 31, 2003, 02:27:50 PM »
I agree with atch, go with a Steam Tank. Its only cheesy if your opposing army lacks high St attacks - the VC have their tooled up characters for that job, which allows you to divert attention.

Upon looking at your list I see a few weaknesses.

1. No fast fav, pistoliers, which will assist the main heavy cav unit with a flank or rear chrage, and march blockers, wizard chaser etc.

2. Warrior priest is better than captain since you get +1 DD, hate to the unit of your choice and the WP is way cooler.

3. FC detachments are cheaper and should replace swordmen detachments

4. No griffen banner.

5. No detachment on your greatswords. You gonna let empire's finest troops to be cut down without support? imho its unfluffy.

Other suggestions.
*S Tank. You need something that can take a hit for the team, plug choke points and generally be the 'work horse'. Steam tank fits the profile.
*Laurel of Vicotry is too expensive imo. Maybe a warbanner in the heavy cav is a much cheaper option

Offline IH8Skaven

  • Posts: 317
It's only fair...
« Reply #26 on: July 31, 2003, 03:28:31 PM »
VDK: I think you're reading the wrong list.  The lastest version is two posts up from yours.  : )  I do use the Griffon Banner now, and use only FC detachments.

Even though, you might be on to something with the WP.  I'll have to see how the points shake out.  I've gotten by pretty alright w/o the pistoliers.  I use fast cav in just about every other army I play (DE, Chaos, O&G) so I understand their effectiveness, but I that between my two fliers I will have the support that I need.  

Atch & VDK: NO STEAMTANK.  Nope.  Won't do it.  1. I don't like it's convoluted ruleset.  (No  I don't think it's overpowering, just stupid.)  2. I am on a holy quest to show the world that the Empire doesn't need a ST to mop up the floor with their collective sorry carcass.

Offline Atchman

  • The Old Ones
  • Posts: 4145
It's only fair...
« Reply #27 on: August 01, 2003, 12:53:26 PM »
Have you found the Captain with the Icon better than a WP with the Icon?  

The WP gets less swings, but the re-roll missed hits against the armies you face the most, I think, more than make up for the loss of a swing.  

The WP has less armor generally, but in my knight units I find that if he doesnt' break the enemy on the charge he is toast anyway.  

In your list, my only question is the Captain vs a WP.  

Like I've said before, I have used almost that exact configuration in a tourney before, but the WP instead of the captain.  

Also, I've never used more than 5 knights plus a character in a unit that has a War Banner.  Is the extra points worth the CR bonus?  If you throw in the WP, the hatred re-rolls and 6 wide front rank it is just as good as two ranks of 5 and the captain IMHO.  The look when you play a Skaven player when you hit 8 times at S6 is priceless!  Then your horses whack a couple more!  

My best showing with the WP unit was against a unit with a Skaven Grey Seer.  I rolled and hit the unit 6 times and used the hatred re-rolls to get it up to 8.  Then my horses hit 4 times and wounded and killed another 2 Skaven.  He lost by 5 and I ran down probably 500 VPs.  How fun was that!  

Just a thought your list is absolutely fine like it is, I would play it in a heartbeat.
"Do not gloat when your enemy falls; when he stumbles, do no let your heart rejoice"

Offline IH8Skaven

  • Posts: 317
It's only fair...
« Reply #28 on: August 01, 2003, 01:39:28 PM »
The war banner has saved my bacon too many times in the past to not bring it.  When your knights all decide to miss with their attacks on the charge, and you eventually win combat by only 1, it's not that much of stretch for your opponent to not break.  Add the warbanner on top, and then you win be 2.  I think we could all atest to the fact that it's very hard to stay put if you lose by two or more.  

It comes down to a points issue with the WP.  I can't afford to pay the premium for a guy that hates some armies, has a bound item that will never go off, and gives me a dispell die that isn't all that useful.  Going from 3 to 4 dice doesn't really help much, as I'm always rolling three dice to block spells that are cast 7-11 anyways.  If it's 12+, I use a scroll.  Now, if you go from 4 dispell to 5, that's a much better jump for magic defense.  5 to 6 is even better yet.

Offline Atchman

  • The Old Ones
  • Posts: 4145
It's only fair...
« Reply #29 on: August 01, 2003, 02:51:17 PM »
Quote from: IH8Skaven
The war banner has saved my bacon too many times in the past to not bring it.  When your knights all decide to miss with their attacks on the charge, and you eventually win combat by only 1, it's not that much of stretch for your opponent to not break.  Add the warbanner on top, and then you win be 2.  I think we could all atest to the fact that it's very hard to stay put if you lose by two or more.  

It comes down to a points issue with the WP.  I can't afford to pay the premium for a guy that hates some armies, has a bound item that will never go off, and gives me a dispell die that isn't all that useful.  Going from 3 to 4 dice doesn't really help much, as I'm always rolling three dice to block spells that are cast 7-11 anyways.  If it's 12+, I use a scroll.  Now, if you go from 4 dispell to 5, that's a much better jump for magic defense.  5 to 6 is even better yet.


I know but he hates the most important army-Skaven!  

All I was saying is scrap a couple of knights or a shave off a few from the detachments to pay for him.  

Many times I use the WP with two magic users, then his bound spells work, and his dispel dice is useful.  Five dispel dice, 6 casting dice, wizards staff, and three scrolls make for a dull magic phase for the other guy.  However, I only use this combination with my semi-shooty army.  The semi-shooty army needs to participate in every phase of the game to be effective.
"Do not gloat when your enemy falls; when he stumbles, do no let your heart rejoice"