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Author Topic: Flames of War!  (Read 22324 times)

Offline MrDWhitey

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Re: Flames of War!
« Reply #25 on: April 21, 2009, 07:14:31 PM »
I'm probably going to write one Mathi (well, for 28mm real scale, but 20mm will work too), and by write, I mean steal from various other systems and mix them together to get something my group likes.  :icon_mrgreen:
I thought he should act responsibly and just kill himself.

Offline Mathi Alfblut

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Re: Flames of War!
« Reply #26 on: April 21, 2009, 07:18:18 PM »
That´s ambition, lad!  :::cheers:::
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Offline GamesPoet

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Re: Flames of War!
« Reply #27 on: April 21, 2009, 10:05:13 PM »
Yeah what he said.  Basically the Late War has too many supers that dominate the game and becomes FoW version of HeroHammer.
Well unfortunately, no one is playing early nor mid war locally.  I'm going to give it a try, and try to keep my purchases as wise as possible, enjoy the modeling and research side of the hobby, and so that if I end up not liking it, then I won't have spent too much, and instead still have some nice miniatures for other games thta I might discover that I like more.
"Not all who wander are lost ... " Tolkien

"... my old suggestion is forget it, take two aspirins and go paint" steveb

"The beauty of curiosity and creativity is so much more useful than the passion of fear." me

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Offline GamesPoet

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Re: Flames of War!
« Reply #28 on: April 21, 2009, 10:29:18 PM »
Thats my understanding, except for tournaments, just like GW, they'd prefer you ahev their line of miniatures.
Actually, you don't have to, if I'm not misinformed. You may not advertise other manufacturers on their website, and they might insist on the proper scale. Can't be sure though, no such thing as an official tournament (or any) in my area.
Not the first time I've been misinformed, probably not the last.  Thanks for the heads up.

The Wessex guys are currently just a standard British Rifle Company from the Fortress Europe book, there is no divisional briefing (though they might get one soon-ish, having been involved in Market Garden). It's quite an interesting unit that saw action all across the North West Europe campaign.

The 2eme DB was part of De Gaulles Free French Forces, formed around a core of units that fought in Africa, and was reequipped to fight in France, where it took part in the Liberation of Paris and Strassburg. The list is available as a download from Battlefront, though it requires the Cobra Briefing for full usability.
I'm curious about the French unit, so I'll see if I can find what you mention.  Is there actually mention of the French unit in the Cobra supplement?

(Not that I'll be switching from modeling a German unit at the moment.)

And by the way, do you have pictures of your guys somewhere?  Feel free to pm me.
"Not all who wander are lost ... " Tolkien

"... my old suggestion is forget it, take two aspirins and go paint" steveb

"The beauty of curiosity and creativity is so much more useful than the passion of fear." me

"Until death it is all life." Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra

Offline Oss

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Re: Flames of War!
« Reply #29 on: April 22, 2009, 09:31:10 PM »
Here's a link to the article about the french, which in turn links to the PDF with the army list:

http://www.flamesofwar.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=842

I don't know if they are actually mentioned in Cobra, they probably should show up in some diagrams of force deployments, as they took part in the operation (actually linked the British and the Americans). Point is, they share some special rules and units with the 2nd and 3rd Armoured Division that are described in Cobra.

Concerning pictures, its not all painted yet, and I'm a pretty bad painter anyway, but I'll try to get some taken this weekend.
Quoted From Wyzer1: "Actually I believe most of the game is fairly well balanced, and I applaud GW for this awesome game. Thats why we pay $300++ for their models. That and we all have mental issues."

Offline GamesPoet

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Re: Flames of War!
« Reply #30 on: April 22, 2009, 10:37:42 PM »
Thanks! :icon_biggrin: :icon_cool:

I printed off the pdf, and event the page with the history info.  Looks like something that might be neat to model at some point, but I'm reminding myself to do one thing at a time.  I'm in the process of doing research on German grenadier units to find one I'd like to base my force on for my first FoW army.

Much appreciated. :::cheers:::
"Not all who wander are lost ... " Tolkien

"... my old suggestion is forget it, take two aspirins and go paint" steveb

"The beauty of curiosity and creativity is so much more useful than the passion of fear." me

"Until death it is all life." Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra

Offline MrDWhitey

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Re: Flames of War!
« Reply #31 on: April 22, 2009, 10:43:42 PM »
Still, get a Tiger Tank.
I thought he should act responsibly and just kill himself.

Offline Ad A Dglgmut

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Re: Flames of War!
« Reply #32 on: April 22, 2009, 11:49:28 PM »
Hah, I LOVED Flames of War for about 2-3 years, until growing out of it.  I started right before they pulled all the late and early war figures so they could focus on midwar.  As far as I know they are sticking with Latewar for another 3 or so years, as each year they (Battlefront) are focusing on each area of the Latewar time frame (1944-1945).  The areas (well unless they changed them, but probably didn't) are Normandy, Bagration(current one they are working on), Market Garden, Bulge (this MIGHT make me want to start up again) and the last stages of the war in Germany itself. 

And for those wondering the scale is 1/100 in relation to the 15mm figures.

The prices aren't too bad, especially considering the figures are a good quality, especially compared to brand such as Old Glory (real cheap, but real poor quality).  And of course the prices aren't much different that what we pay for GW figures, and forces are usually smaller, purcase wise, so it can be cheaper. 

I always liked midwar for the North Africa and Italy/Sicily battles.  But then again latewar battles in Normandy were sweet too.   

Now, that aside, as I mentioned, I used to play Flames of War, and thus have tons (ie I went nuts like a kid in a toy store, err bad analogy  :laugh:) of figures that I bought in hopes of creating different forces, but realized I went overboard.  I literally bought just about every type of force BF makes except for Russians.  And thus, I am looking to get rid of most of them.  I mostly have US troops and German troops, but have a few other random figures here and there.  Not many vehicles as I just sold a bunch on eBay.  If anyone is interested in some for a slightly cheaper price than through BF let me know.  Everything is out of the blister packs and in bags, but ready to be built up.  The main figures that stand out to me that I have are US infantry platoons, such as Ranger and Paratrooper platoons, and various German (SS and Winter gear) infantry platoons.  But I have so much I hate to list it.

Thought I would just throw that out there for those interested. :-) (Located in the US btw)
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Offline Parka

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Re: Flames of War!
« Reply #33 on: April 23, 2009, 12:38:51 AM »
Quote
I'm curious about the French unit, so I'll see if I can find what you mention.  Is there actually mention of the French unit in the Cobra supplement?

French unit?  I didn't think they played a roll in WW2 outside of putting a bunch of huge guns in the wrong place and surrendering in 12 seconds.

Offline Ad A Dglgmut

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Re: Flames of War!
« Reply #34 on: April 23, 2009, 01:19:24 AM »
My history isn't up to date, but I know there were plenty of French that fought in Africa and had other smaller units that didn't really represent the entire of country of France, such as the beginning of the war. 
Usually I have a female mage holding my Rod of Power   :-D

Offline Nicholas Bies

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Re: Flames of War!
« Reply #35 on: April 23, 2009, 03:27:04 AM »
Parka...the french put the guns in the RIGHT place, just turned out the Germans knew about'em. Mind you The Germans went through Belgium in WWI so the idea they'd do it again in WWII shouldn't have been a huge surprise.
The greatest form of control which can go on forever until it is exposed is a tyranny you can't see, touch and taste (unlike totalitarian Govts). When you sit in a prison cell but can't see the bars, because people don't rebel against not being free when they think they're are.

Offline GamesPoet

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Re: Flames of War!
« Reply #36 on: April 23, 2009, 03:30:06 AM »
Still, get a Tiger Tank.
Oh I will. :icon_wink:
"Not all who wander are lost ... " Tolkien

"... my old suggestion is forget it, take two aspirins and go paint" steveb

"The beauty of curiosity and creativity is so much more useful than the passion of fear." me

"Until death it is all life." Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra

Offline GamesPoet

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Re: Flames of War!
« Reply #37 on: April 23, 2009, 03:36:57 AM »
Hah, I LOVED Flames of War for about 2-3 years, until growing out of it.  I started right before they pulled all the late and early war figures so they could focus on midwar.  As far as I know they are sticking with Latewar for another 3 or so years, as each year they (Battlefront) are focusing on each area of the Latewar time frame (1944-1945).  The areas (well unless they changed them, but probably didn't) are Normandy, Bagration(current one they are working on), Market Garden, Bulge (this MIGHT make me want to start up again) and the last stages of the war in Germany itself.
Yes, this is my understanding as well. 

Regarding the Germans that you have, are the late war items from their old series, and if so how much do they differ from what is being sold currently for late war?
"Not all who wander are lost ... " Tolkien

"... my old suggestion is forget it, take two aspirins and go paint" steveb

"The beauty of curiosity and creativity is so much more useful than the passion of fear." me

"Until death it is all life." Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra

Offline GamesPoet

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Re: Flames of War!
« Reply #38 on: April 23, 2009, 03:39:53 AM »
Quote
I'm curious about the French unit, so I'll see if I can find what you mention.  Is there actually mention of the French unit in the Cobra supplement?

French unit?  I didn't think they played a roll in WW2 outside of putting a bunch of huge guns in the wrong place and surrendering in 12 seconds.
Oss provided a link regarding info available for the French on the FoW website in a post furhter back on this thread. :icon_wink:
"Not all who wander are lost ... " Tolkien

"... my old suggestion is forget it, take two aspirins and go paint" steveb

"The beauty of curiosity and creativity is so much more useful than the passion of fear." me

"Until death it is all life." Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra

Offline Mathi Alfblut

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Re: Flames of War!
« Reply #39 on: April 23, 2009, 09:23:03 AM »
Indeed, the French put the guns along their border to Germany, with a weaker section in the Ardennes, since it was deemed unpassable for mechanized units by the wisdom of the time.
The Belgians also fortified their border to match with the french, and the dutch did aswell.

The French and british belived that they main punch would be a repeat of the right hook through Belgium, executed during WWI, since the fortifications where not as extensive as the Maginot line.

The germans however, made a variation of their old plan, sending a wing smashing into Belgium and the Netherlands, using suprise attacks, ruses and airborne assault to take out for example the strong fortress of Eben Emael where they destroyed the heavy guns, allowing the armoured spearheads to get past unscratched. But the fortress itself held for a good time.

As the french and british field armies raced north to meet the german punch, a second german army attacked via the Ardennes, where the fortifications where weaker. Weaker fortification and the big suprise about such a daring move caught the french on the backfoot and after having battled their way out of the Ardennes, the german panzer divisons raced forward, while the bulk of the allied forces was in Belgium, thereby threatening them with catching them in a big sack and going for the almost undefended Paris.

Add to this that the germans gain a strong air superiority, which was just as important as their armoured divisions rapid advances. I belive that had the allied maintained parity in the air, the german advance would have been sloved, and it would have robbed them of much of the aerial recon they needed.

For example, on two occasions, german panzer divisions where caught strung out by first a french armoured counterattack, commanded by non other than Charles DeGaulle. It was initially succesful but german airpower saved the day.
The second is a more well known incident, more well known to the anglo audience cause it involved a british unit and that it was Rommels famed 7th "Ghost" division, that took the hit.
A british force of motorized infantry and armour, about two tank battalions, one with the machinegun armed Matilda 1, and another with the famous Matilda II, who at least had a 2-pounder cannon.

The massive ambush hit the germans in the flanks, as they where rushing forward, the machinegun armed Matilda 1 focusing on softskin vehicles, infantry and artillery, while the heavier Matilda II contested with the german tanks. The germans got absolutely freaked as they faced lots of tanks that their guns could not penetrate. Rommel ordered in desperation a unit of 88mm AA guns to open up, and finally managed to make a dent in the british onslaught. But in the end, it was once again the wailing Stukas of the Luftwaffe that shattered the british attack.

But this attack had one huge impact. The germans where not certain of how large the british formation had been, and overestimated the size to at least a division! Neither where they certain how many still battleworthy enemy armoured formations there might be around, ready to pounce on the strung out panzers. People say Hitler chickened out, he was later blamed by german generals for being to cautious there. However, the truth is that most of the german commanders agreed. They where not certain about all the enemy ahead, aka, they did not fully know their enemy. They knew that even if their units outclassed the french and british tactically, the french and british had tanks that outclassed their german ones. The best tank of the early war was the French Somua, a well built and well balanced tank, with a 47mm cannon and two machineguns, good mobility and good armour. The only drawback was the tower only big for two men, meaning the commander must also do some weapon duty.

More Somuas (it was a very new design) and the germans might not have been so happy. Also, the french airforce where also in a transition period, having just started introducing a new line of fighters. Among them where a design from Bloch, who was outclassing the german fighters in almost every way. In one air battle, the only french squadron that had been equipped with these new fighters, riped apart and opposing german Messerschmidt 109 squadron.

All in all, if you forget all kind of silly hindsights, the germans desicion to pull the brakes and resupply their panzers and allow infantry to catch up, was a sound military desicion. And that meant the british counterattack saved the BEF and a large number of french troops that was evaquated via Dunkirk.

Sure, the French could have fought better, but the germans just proved a bit more sneaky.

And if you are going to blame the french for misjudging the passability of the Ardennes to large armoured formation, well, then you should know that most allied commanders tought the same about it in December 1944. But we all love hindsight, don´t we.  :dry:
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Offline t12161991

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Re: Flames of War!
« Reply #40 on: April 23, 2009, 10:56:12 AM »
Actually, that'd be December 16 Mathi. My birthday. Get your facts straight :-P.

Oh, and I couldn't have put it better myself.
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Offline Ad A Dglgmut

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Re: Flames of War!
« Reply #41 on: April 23, 2009, 11:45:40 AM »
Regarding the Germans that you have, are the late war items from their old series, and if so how much do they differ from what is being sold currently for late war?

For infantry wise, the only Latwar ones I have are the main Panzergrenadier/Grenadier set and the Assault Rifle figures:

http://www.flamesofwar.com/Default.aspx?tabId=117&CategoryID=7797&ProductID=290&PageIndex=2

http://www.flamesofwar.com/Default.aspx?tabId=117&CategoryID=7797&ProductID=298&PageIndex=2

Those sets do date back to the original Late War times, but appear to be still sold by BF.  Now in regards to the late war figures, I would have to go through them, as I mixed up several different figure types to add variety (LW Panzergrenadiers, LW Panzergrenadiers from Halftrack box set, MW SS Panzergrenadiers and EW/MW Panzergrenadiers).  I will go through my figures tonight when I have more time to give you an exact idea (and will post pictures). 

I also have some of the EW/MW SS and Winter grenadier figures, mostly full platoon size.

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Offline t12161991

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Re: Flames of War!
« Reply #42 on: April 23, 2009, 11:48:29 AM »
I may have to check this out. Fairly cheap you say? Hm... IG or new game... IG or new game...
Grutch:  Careful, someone I know on a forum I visit works for Sony.  He says they aren't to be trusted.

Hail! to the victors valiant
Hail! to the conqu'ring heroes
Hail! Hail! to Michigan
The leaders and best!

10-2

Offline MrDWhitey

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Re: Flames of War!
« Reply #43 on: April 23, 2009, 11:51:19 AM »
Flames of War was originally WW2 for 40k.
I thought he should act responsibly and just kill himself.

Offline t12161991

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Re: Flames of War!
« Reply #44 on: April 23, 2009, 11:52:54 AM »
Oh really? Then I may be able to use the same models...
Grutch:  Careful, someone I know on a forum I visit works for Sony.  He says they aren't to be trusted.

Hail! to the victors valiant
Hail! to the conqu'ring heroes
Hail! Hail! to Michigan
The leaders and best!

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Offline MrDWhitey

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Re: Flames of War!
« Reply #45 on: April 23, 2009, 11:53:58 AM »
 :roll:

Naw.
I thought he should act responsibly and just kill himself.

Offline Nicholas Bies

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Re: Flames of War!
« Reply #46 on: April 23, 2009, 01:27:29 PM »
FoW isn't nearly the dice chucking game 40k.



Mathi, the Panzer II's couldn't penetrate Sumua front armour if I remember correctly, neither could the Pak 36 or 38's. But from memory again (been a while since I focused on French and Germans WWI not Australians) they just got surrounded and left behind the advance.

Great write up btw.
The greatest form of control which can go on forever until it is exposed is a tyranny you can't see, touch and taste (unlike totalitarian Govts). When you sit in a prison cell but can't see the bars, because people don't rebel against not being free when they think they're are.

Offline MrDWhitey

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Re: Flames of War!
« Reply #47 on: April 23, 2009, 01:31:00 PM »
When I saw FoW being played, I saw just as much dice chucking, if not more, than with 40k.

I only saw less dice chucking when I played it because my entire army consisted of 5 Tigers. That's only like, 10 dice a turn at most, unless I use the machineguns. Or used Stormtrooper. Which admittedly, I always tried to. So that's another 5 dice.

Although when my Tigers hit something, it generally didn't like it.
I thought he should act responsibly and just kill himself.

Offline Mathi Alfblut

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Re: Flames of War!
« Reply #48 on: April 23, 2009, 02:29:26 PM »
Still Chheeeesssyyyy as hell, MrD... :icon_razz:
How many such german unit do you think there was in the war? Not that many. Why not play an honest, proper, manly and... and... what epitet am I looking for... well, HONEST Pzkw IV unit? The most numerous and the sounded of all the german designs.  :closed-eyes:
That would make you look manly in my eyes.  :icon_razz:
Or better, if you reeallllyyyy wanna be a man, go all out Volksturm. Now, that is what I call proper representation of the late german army. :icon_wink:

Anyway, I found this game system and I am thinking of buying it, since the basic book is cheaper than the Warhammer rulesystems, PLUS you can use 20mm 1/72 scale plastic soldiers with it and tanks! Cheap, cheap, cheap!
http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/home/detail.php?qsID=1591&qsSeries=47

Anyone having any expirience with this gamesystem?
Oh, and remember GW made it personal, not you!

Offline MrDWhitey

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Re: Flames of War!
« Reply #49 on: April 23, 2009, 02:36:23 PM »
Oh Mathi, it's an easy army to beat. And I didn't even realise it was horrible for some armies. I just wanted a very cheap intro into that game, as everyone played 1500 points. A normal army at that cost something like £150. Tigers Marsch was £40.  :icon_mrgreen:
I thought he should act responsibly and just kill himself.