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Author Topic: Remove Flagies as Core?  (Read 12068 times)

Offline WallyTWest

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Remove Flagies as Core?
« on: May 20, 2009, 02:08:16 AM »
It is my personal opinion that Flaggalants serve no fuction as a core choice and fail to do much accept allow low point forces be tailored to a sigmarite theme. They are a rare, as they have as an abilitiy the imunity to flight that so many other empire units are prone to.

I also say take out martyrs, its wasteful and an poor rule. Replace it with something better.
Itís all about Renaissance Punk.

Offline Toro_Blanco

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Re: Remove Flagies as Core?
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2009, 04:23:01 AM »
I disagree, but only because I like being able to build an army around fluff and theme, and the idea of a wandering sigmarite horde for an army appeals to me as a fluffy option.

If anything, I say eliminate the ability to take two stanks and a war altar; this makes far less sense fluff wise than a wandering band of mental peasants.  However, neither bothers me enough to really push for it, just sayin'.

As for martyrs, I wouldn't mind seeing something better or different.  Any ideas?
The first school of thought is that the ragged-assed Stirlanders, not having two coppers to rub together, nicked it when an elven envoy was passing through the area and had hopped off it to take a pee behind a tree

Offline Warlord

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Re: Remove Flagies as Core?
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2009, 04:34:46 AM »
Their Martyr and special frenzy rule should be updated to be something like this:

Crazed
Flagellants subject to Frenzy, and can never lose it. Furthermore they are also subject to Hatred.

Martyr
Each combat round, you can choose to Martyr D3 flagellants. As a result, you may reroll all missed hits and wounds. If a warrior priest joins the unit, he may not leave, and the flagellants will automatically gain the reroll hits and wounds ability without needed to martyr any models.
Quote from: Gneisenau
I hate people who don't paint their armies, hate them with all my guts. Beats me how they value other things over painting, like eating or brushing teeth.

Offline Obi

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Re: Remove Flagies as Core?
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2009, 12:13:42 PM »
A WP can't join. That's in the FAQ. (GW's, not ours- that one is in need of an update :engel:)

You prefer to only have one martyr result?
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Offline commandant

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Re: Remove Flagies as Core?
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2009, 02:48:27 PM »
Their Martyr and special frenzy rule should be updated to be something like this:

Crazed
Flagellants subject to Frenzy, and can never lose it. Furthermore they are also subject to Hatred.

Martyr
Each combat round, you can choose to Martyr D3 flagellants. As a result, you may reroll all missed hits and wounds. If a warrior priest joins the unit, he may not leave, and the flagellants will automatically gain the reroll hits and wounds ability without needed to martyr any models.

I would accept those rules.   By the way if a warrior priest joins dose he become effected by the crazed rule.
Maybe let him try to leave but suffer d3 S4 hits as the crazy people try and stop him

Offline Warlord

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Re: Remove Flagies as Core?
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2009, 03:17:54 PM »
A WP can't join. That's in the FAQ. (GW's, not ours- that one is in need of an update :engel:)

You prefer to only have one martyr result?

I know. I thought this was blue sky 8th ed thinking... I was hinting that Warrior Priests can join flagellants but not leave once there. Though commandant's rule looks good too - taking hits for leaving...

Yes. Having a chart is needlessly complex and random. Having one results, should you decide to martyr d3 flagellants makes it actually worth it (you are removing models afterall).
Quote from: Gneisenau
I hate people who don't paint their armies, hate them with all my guts. Beats me how they value other things over painting, like eating or brushing teeth.

Offline WallyTWest

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Re: Remove Flagies as Core?
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2009, 02:01:00 AM »
Idea,  Martyr a flagie in order to restore frenzy and make it so they loose frenzy if they loose combat like normal troops.
Itís all about Renaissance Punk.

Offline Warlord

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Re: Remove Flagies as Core?
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2009, 04:28:09 AM »
Idea,  Martyr a flagie in order to restore frenzy and make it so they loose frenzy if they loose combat like normal troops.

Thats a good one too actually!
Quote from: Gneisenau
I hate people who don't paint their armies, hate them with all my guts. Beats me how they value other things over painting, like eating or brushing teeth.

Offline Inarticulate

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Re: Remove Flagies as Core?
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2009, 03:44:09 PM »
Lmao can just see a bunch of raving lunatics losing a fight, them just thwocking the guy next to them before getting really angry.
I for one welcome our new flying cat overlords.

Offline sniperjolly

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Re: Remove Flagies as Core?
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2009, 06:25:44 PM »
if they're going to be rare-only again, I think they should get their T4 back.
What's up with that Phillyt guy... he's not what I would call '' pleasant''.

Offline MagicJuggler

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Re: Remove Flagies as Core?
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2009, 01:39:59 PM »
I say we need a funkier marytr chart.

Roll a d6 and lose that many flagellants. Yes. A D6. Then consult the chart below use all blessings up until that point. The bonuses last for this combat alone; martyred models do not count towards CR.

1) Blessing of Sigmar: The Flagellant unit's attacks count as magical for this turn.
2) Divine Guidance: The Flagellants may reroll to hit this turn.
3) Smite the Impure: The Flagellants may reroll to wound.
4) Fury of Whirling Steel: Killing Blow
5) Lunatic Strength: The Flagellants receive +2 strength.
6) Sigmar's Wrath: The Flagellants ignore armor saves.

Offline Captain Tineal

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Re: Remove Flagies as Core?
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2009, 03:48:48 PM »
I say we need a funkier marytr chart.

Roll a d6 and lose that many flagellants. Yes. A D6. Then consult the chart below use all blessings up until that point. The bonuses last for this combat alone; martyred models do not count towards CR.

1) Blessing of Sigmar: The Flagellant unit's attacks count as magical for this turn.
2) Divine Guidance: The Flagellants may reroll to hit this turn.
3) Smite the Impure: The Flagellants may reroll to wound.
4) Fury of Whirling Steel: Killing Blow
5) Lunatic Strength: The Flagellants receive +2 strength.
6) Sigmar's Wrath: The Flagellants ignore armor saves.

So for the price of 6 Flaggies, on the charge you could have S7, KB, reroll to hit and wound attacks that ignore armour?  With 2 attack each... that would be crazyness!
I don't know what a pisolires is but it sounds like a musical instrument you play with urine...

Offline Obi

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Re: Remove Flagies as Core?
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2009, 10:11:30 AM »
Yeah, pretty much. But it would still cost you 60 points. This setup would make them hero-killers though. Always magical attacks, and almost always reroll to hit and wound and if you roll a 4+ you enemy is done for.

I shout "Overpowered!"
Hello Athiuen and welcome to the Back Table.

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I killed a duck with a spear, can't read train timetables though
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"Do Be Do Be Do"-Sinatra

Offline Boldrick

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Re: Remove Flagies as Core?
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2009, 12:29:37 PM »
Idea,  Martyr a flagie in order to restore frenzy and make it so they loose frenzy if they loose combat like normal troops.
Why make them worse?
I think warlord gave us the best rules  :happy:

Offline MagicJuggler

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Re: Remove Flagies as Core?
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2009, 04:23:38 PM »
I doubt they would be overpowered, and here's why. They still are ultimately I3 T3 soldiers costing 10 pts apiece with no armor. The idea is they are a glass cannon, and against ASF armies, or if the enemy gets the charge against them (how hard should it be? They're frenzied infantry...marchblock them, shoot them...how hard can it be?), they won't have enough troops to return fire...seriously.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2009, 04:47:57 PM by MagicJuggler »

Offline Toro_Blanco

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Re: Remove Flagies as Core?
« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2009, 04:37:42 PM »
I doubt they would be overpowered, and here's why. They still are ultimately I3 T3 soldiers costing 10 pts apiece with no weapons. The idea is they are a glass cannon, and against ASF armies, or if the enemy gets the charge against them (how hard should it be? They're frenzied infantry...marchblock them, shoot them...how hard can it be?), they won't have enough troops to return fire...seriously.

To say nothing of how easily shredded they could be at range.  With T3 and no armor save, this is a unit that can be torn to pieces by magical fire or artillery. 
The first school of thought is that the ragged-assed Stirlanders, not having two coppers to rub together, nicked it when an elven envoy was passing through the area and had hopped off it to take a pee behind a tree

Offline Obi

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Re: Remove Flagies as Core?
« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2009, 04:39:27 PM »
No weapons? What, you mean flails =/= weapons?

Yeah, if the enemy gets the charged they're screwed. But right now they would also be screwd if they get charged. That's been taken into calculation already. They are balanced now, so if you make them better, they will become  unblanced. Simple logic. And you should screen your flagellants anyway.
Hello Athiuen and welcome to the Back Table.

caveat lector
I killed a duck with a spear, can't read train timetables though
"To be is to do"-Socrates;
"To do is to be"-Sartre;
"Do Be Do Be Do"-Sinatra

Offline MagicJuggler

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Re: Remove Flagies as Core?
« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2009, 04:51:47 PM »
Meant to say no armor although after the first charge their flails don't mean much anyway. Poison of course screws them badly too. Of course we screen flaggies but as it stands they're good but not great. Part of the interest in powering them up is of course to create an alternative to the Steam Tank, as well as to take into account the fact that after the first round of combat they're pretty weak anyway. They don't gain the benefits of charging into cover, they're slow, fragile, and incredibly easy to hit. They're not a tarpit...sorry.

Offline Freman Bloodglaive

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Re: Remove Flagies as Core?
« Reply #18 on: August 10, 2009, 09:21:10 AM »
What they need is to be WS and T 4 and be armed with so many pistols that they always count as shooting a brace of pistols even in combat.
"Reason is a thing of God, inasmuch as there is nothing which God the Maker of all has not provided, disposed, ordained by reason - nothing which He has not willed should be handled and understood by reason" Quintus Tertullian

Offline Toro_Blanco

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Re: Remove Flagies as Core?
« Reply #19 on: August 10, 2009, 06:31:48 PM »
What they need is to be WS and T 4 and be armed with so many pistols that they always count as shooting a brace of pistols even in combat.

I'm going to assume this is some variety of trolling, and not dignify it with an argument.
The first school of thought is that the ragged-assed Stirlanders, not having two coppers to rub together, nicked it when an elven envoy was passing through the area and had hopped off it to take a pee behind a tree

Offline Ganymede

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Re: Remove Flagies as Core?
« Reply #20 on: August 10, 2009, 06:36:29 PM »

I think that any revision of the flagellants would take a good critical reevaluation of their role in the army. Are they supposed to be a hard hitting troop choice? Are they supposed to be a tarpit? Can they be both at once? These are all questions that need to be approached.


What they need is to be WS and T 4 and be armed with so many pistols that they always count as shooting a brace of pistols even in combat.

I'm going to assume this is some variety of trolling, and not dignify it with an argument.

The proper tact is to not dignify it with a response. Otherwise, you're just taking the bait.

Offline Rodman49

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Re: Remove Flagies as Core?
« Reply #21 on: August 10, 2009, 08:36:44 PM »
if they're going to be rare-only again, I think they should get their T4 back.

I find this the simplest solution if they must be rare only again. However I feel the current Warrior Priest allows one unit to be core a great idea and should be extended to all the other character options.

Arch Lector/Warrior Priest - 1 Flagellants as Core
General/Elector Count - 1 Greatswords as Core
Grand Templar - 1 IC Knights as Core
Master Engineer - 1 Outriders as Core

Offline MagicJuggler

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Re: Remove Flagies as Core?
« Reply #22 on: August 10, 2009, 11:06:56 PM »

I think that any revision of the flagellants would take a good critical reevaluation of their role in the army. Are they supposed to be a hard hitting troop choice? Are they supposed to be a tarpit? Can they be both at once? These are all questions that need to be approached.


What they need is to be WS and T 4 and be armed with so many pistols that they always count as shooting a brace of pistols even in combat.

I'm going to assume this is some variety of trolling, and not dignify it with an argument.

The proper tact is to not dignify it with a response. Otherwise, you're just taking the bait.

It's a reference to Long Drong's Slayer Pirates; the question being why take Flagellants instead when you can get the pirates for similar cost?

Offline MrDWhitey

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Re: Remove Flagies as Core?
« Reply #23 on: August 11, 2009, 12:57:49 AM »
Because Long Drongs are Dogs of War. The implications of this are obvious.
I thought he should act responsibly and just kill himself.

Offline Freman Bloodglaive

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Re: Remove Flagies as Core?
« Reply #24 on: August 11, 2009, 10:49:42 AM »
However Long Drong's do count as a rare choice so they technically compete for the same position.

Toughness 4 flagellents would have slightly better survivability against most troops and missile weapons. They would go from a tarpit, to a tarpit that might actually survive long enough to do some damage.

If it were my points I'd take steam tanks as rare (if I wasn't intent on taking Mercenaries) as Flaggies just aren't worth it.

Being able to take one as core means that occasionally one might be fielded. Taking that away means you got nothing.
"Reason is a thing of God, inasmuch as there is nothing which God the Maker of all has not provided, disposed, ordained by reason - nothing which He has not willed should be handled and understood by reason" Quintus Tertullian