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Author Topic: A more balanced Mordheim- opinions on chaos warbands?  (Read 31767 times)

Offline Pistol Pete

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Re: A more balanced Mordheim- Gripes, bitches, and complaints?
« Reply #25 on: October 13, 2009, 06:13:08 AM »
Quote
pistol pete: is that your table?!   

If so I'd love some close ups, tutorials etc !

Don't I wish!

No, this table was made by a German guy named Wolfgang.  Von Kurst posted links to his site, but it's in German so I can't tell what he's talking about for the most part.

The good news is that there are tons of pictures, and a lot of them show his techniques pretty well.
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Offline rufus sparkfire

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Re: A more balanced Mordheim- Gripes, bitches, and complaints?
« Reply #26 on: October 13, 2009, 10:08:06 AM »
This is why you shouldn't post pictures of other people's things...
Hey, I could still beat up a woman!
If I wanted to.

Offline rufus sparkfire

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Re: A more balanced Mordheim- Gripes, bitches, and complaints?
« Reply #27 on: October 13, 2009, 11:16:24 AM »
Also:

Pistols and crossbow pistols. One is used as a weapon in the first round of combat. The other actually shoots in the first round, and you get your normal attacks too.

The thing is, they are essentially doing the same thing, but the rules are modelling it in two different ways. It's awkward and unnecessary, and I think it's a consequence of a warhammer import (pistol rules) and a new weapon (the crossbow pistol) both being added to the rules without really considering why they function as they do.

Does it need changing? Maybe not. But it's weird and it upsets my sense of order!
Hey, I could still beat up a woman!
If I wanted to.

Offline Fandir Nightshade

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Re: A more balanced Mordheim- Gripes, bitches, and complaints?
« Reply #28 on: October 13, 2009, 11:22:47 AM »
Quote
pistol pete: is that your table?!   

If so I'd love some close ups, tutorials etc !

Don't I wish!

No, this table was made by a German guy named Wolfgang.  Von Kurst posted links to his site, but it's in German so I can't tell what he's talking about for the most part.

The good news is that there are tons of pictures, and a lot of them show his techniques pretty well.

if you dig out the link I might translate the stuff interesting for you. (and try to find out where he lives so I can steal that table).

Offline rufus sparkfire

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Re: A more balanced Mordheim- Gripes, bitches, and complaints?
« Reply #29 on: October 13, 2009, 12:20:21 PM »
And also, handguns.

The way they are at the moment, there is no reason to ever use them. They either need to be cheaper, or more powerful.
Hey, I could still beat up a woman!
If I wanted to.

Offline Pistol Pete

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Re: A more balanced Mordheim- Gripes, bitches, and complaints?
« Reply #30 on: October 13, 2009, 04:44:26 PM »
Quote
And also, handguns.

The way they are at the moment, there is no reason to ever use them. They either need to be cheaper, or more powerful.

You're a wealth of complaints, rufas.  Please keep it up.   :icon_mrgreen:

But yes, blackpowder weapons need a major overhaul.

The main reason that handguns are useless is that armor is useless.  I'm changing that, so that armor is more abundant.  Handguns will be a little cheaper, too.

And yes, I'll giviing the crossbow pistol the once-over as well.
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Offline rufus sparkfire

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Re: A more balanced Mordheim- Gripes, bitches, and complaints?
« Reply #31 on: October 13, 2009, 06:12:20 PM »
Complaining is my speciality.

Handguns are still weak even if armour is good, because they cost more than crossbows, fire only every other turn and have a shorter range. They need a lot of fixing before they become useable.
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If I wanted to.

Offline ZeroTwentythree

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Re: A more balanced Mordheim- Gripes, bitches, and complaints?
« Reply #32 on: October 13, 2009, 07:08:26 PM »
But yes, blackpowder weapons need a major overhaul.

The main reason that handguns are useless is that armor is useless.  I'm changing that, so that armor is more abundant.  Handguns will be a little cheaper, too.


Fixing pistols by changing armour is just asking for other game imbalances two steps removed from handguns. Fix handguns by fixing handguns.  :wink:


Offline Pistol Pete

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Re: A more balanced Mordheim- Gripes, bitches, and complaints?
« Reply #33 on: October 13, 2009, 08:11:10 PM »
Quote
Fixing pistols by changing armour is just asking for other game imbalances two steps removed from handguns. Fix handguns by fixing handguns.

Armor is getting an overhual because it's worthless right now.  However, as armor becomes more useful, handguns will become more attractive.

I'm not planning to make pistols any better.  They're good enough already, thanks.   :icon_mrgreen:  I may actually make them a little less good than they already are.   :icon_eek:

I *will* be looking at the rest of the blackpowder family, and doing some tweaking to make sure they're a viable choice.

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Offline Pistol Pete

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Re: A more balanced Mordheim- Gripes, bitches, and complaints?
« Reply #34 on: October 13, 2009, 08:25:07 PM »
Witch Hunters- Redux:



Choice of warriors
------------------
A Witch Hunter warband must include a minimum of
three models. You have 500 gold crowns which you
can use to recruit your initial warband. The maximum
number of warriors in the warband may never exceed
15.

Witch Hunter Inquisitor: Each Witch Hunter warband must have one Witch Hunter Inquisitor.

Warrior-Priest: Your warband may include a single Warrior-Priest.

Witch Hunter Sergeant: Your warband may include one Sergeant.

Acolytes: Your warband may include up to 2 acolytes.

Zealots: Any number of models maybe Zealots.

Flagellants: Your warband may include up to four Flagellants.

Warhounds: Your warband may include up to five Warhounds.




Starting experience
-------------------
A Witch Hunter Inquisitor starts with 20 experience.
A Witch Hunter Sergeant start with 8 experience.
A Warrior-Priest starts with 12 experience.
Acolytes start with 0 experience.
Henchmen start with 0 experience.





1- Witch Hunter Inquisitor:  60 gold crowns to hire
---------------------------------------------------

Driven by fanaticism, Witch Hunter Inquistors are
obsessed with cleansing Mordheim and bringing the
justice of Sigmar to all. Carrying the edict of the
Grand Theogonist himself, they have the divine right
to judge and execute warlocks, witches, Chaos
worshippers… in fact all who dare to oppose them.



Profile M WS BS S T W I A Ld
____________________________       
         4    4   4 3 3 1 4 1   8



Weapons/Armour: A Witch Hunter Inquisitor may be
equipped with weapons and armour chosen from the
Witch Hunter Equipment list.

SPECIAL RULES
Leader: Any warrior within 6" of the Witch
Hunter Captain may use his Leadership value
when taking Leadership tests.

Burn the Witch!: A Witch Hunter Inquisitor hates
all models who can cast spells.






0-1 Warrior-priest: 40 gold crowns to hire
------------------------------------------

Many powerful fighting men have come from the
ranks of the faithful. The Priests of Sigmar are no
exception, and the military wing of the cult is feared
and respected throughout the Empire.

The Grand Theogonist himself has granted the
Warrior-Priests an edict to cleanse Mordheim of Chaos
filth. With fire burning in their eyes, the Warrior-
Priests stride into battle, chanting aloud the Deus
Sigmar, the praise of the patron god of the Empire.


Profile M WS BS S T W I A Ld
____________________________
        4  3  3 3 3 1 3 1  8


Weapons/Armour: A Warrior-Priest may be
equipped with weapons and armour
chosen from the Witch Hunter Equipment
list.  He is not a wizard and thus may
wear armor while casting Prayers.


SPECIAL RULES

Prayers: A Warrior-Priest is a servant of
Sigmar and may use the Prayers of
Sigmar as detailed in the Magic
section.

Burn the Witch!: A warrior priest hates
all models who can cast spells.





0-1 Witch Hunter Sergeant:  30 gold crowns to hire
---------------------------------------------------

Witch Hunters are members of the grim Order of
Witch Hunters, dedicated to eradicating Chaos and all
its minions. Usually they prowl the Old World
individually trying and executing the enemies of
Sigmar, but the situation in Mordheim requires them
to band together.

The Sergeant keeps the men in line and sees to the day
to day running of the warband, while the Inquistor
focuses on tracking down and destroying the enemies of
the church.



Profile M WS BS S T W I A Ld
____________________________
         4   3   4  3 3  1 3 1  7



Weapons/Armour: Sergeants may be equipped
with weapons and armour chosen from the Witch
Hunter Equipment list.

SPECIAL RULE

Burn the Witch!: Sergeants hate all models who
can cast spells.

And your little dog, too: The witch Hunter Sergeant is looking
for a special pet.  Not just any dog will do, however.  The
Sergeant wants an impressive specimen. 

See the Henchmen section for details on recruiting an Alpha Dog.



0-2 Witch Hunter Acolytes: 15 gold crowns to hire
-------------------------------------------------

Lacking an inheritance, it is not uncommon for the
second sons of nobles to be pushed into the clergy. 
Occasionally, these young men find themselves in the
service of an imperial Inquisitor.  The rewards may
be great if they can survive long enough to reap them...



Profile M WS BS S T W I A Ld
____________________________
        4  2  2 3 3 1 3 1  6



Weapons/Armour: Acolytes may be equipped
with weapons and armour chosen from the Witch
Hunter Equipment list.

SPECIAL RULE

Burn the Witch!: Acolytes hate all models who
can cast spells.



Authors Notes: Witch Hunter Heroes

I decided to shake things up a bit here.  Witch hunters tend to suffer from high starting experience, so I decided to make them a little closer to mercenary youngbloods to a witch hunter warband.  Acolytes also make the "startup crew" a bit cheaper.

The names have been changed a bit.  The captain is now an inquisitor, and the witch hunters have become a Witch Hunter Sergeant, and 2 Acolytes.

I also decided to allow the Sergeant a "free" warhound, that doesn't count against the warband limit. I did this because I felt that the warhounds rapidly become obsolete (since they don't advance), and I felt that it would be good to have at least one wardog in the band for thematic purposes. 

I raised the Sergeants points up a bit to reflect this little bonus.  The dog gets an extra attack to make him useful, but I don't feel that he's unbalancing in any way since he's effectively a hired sword that only witch hunters can take.  Besides, I love that this crusty old sergeant has a soft spot for this big, deadly dog.  It just feels *right*.

Edited to add that the dog has been changed a bit since this was first posted, and is more fully a hired sword, on par with the others you might hire.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2009, 08:17:10 PM by Pistol Pete »
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Offline Pistol Pete

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Re: A more balanced Mordheim- Gripes, bitches, and complaints?
« Reply #35 on: October 13, 2009, 08:27:58 PM »
Henchmen- Bought in groups of 1-5
_____________________________________________________________________


0-4 Flagellants: 40 gold crowns to hire
---------------------------------------

Flagellants are fanatics and madmen obsessed with
the end of the world. They are often men who have
lost their families to war or the ravages of nature, and
have also lost their minds. With insane persistence,
they travel the length and breadth of the Empire,
preaching their view of the end of the world.

With their rousing speeches, Witch Hunters can muster
these dangerous lunatics to fight in the streets of
Mordheim, where no sane man dares tread.

Flagellants are extremely dangerous opponents in
close combat, for they have the strength of madmen,
and their bodies have become inured to pain because
of self-mutilation.

Profile M WS BS S T W I A Ld
____________________________
          4   3   0 3 4  1 3 1 10


Weapons/Armour: Flagellants may be equipped with
weapons chosen from the Flagellant Equipment list.
Flagellants never use missile weapons, even if they
gain an Advance roll which would otherwise allow them to do so.

SPECIAL RULES

Fanatical: Flagellants are convinced that the end of
the world is nigh, and nothing in this world holds any
terror for them. Flagellants automatically pass all
Leadership-based tests they are required to take.

Flagellants may not use thier leadership to make rout tests
if the party leader is incapacitated.  Use the next best LD
to make the rout tests.

A flagellant may never become a warband leader.

Tough as nails: Flagellants are hard to kill.  To reflect this,
they are only killed on a roll of 1, when taken out of action.
If a 2 is rolled, they do not die, but must sit out the next
battle while thier wounds heal.

Tireless: A flagellant armed with a morning star strikes at
+1 strength every round of combat.  A flagellant may also be
armed with 2 morning stars, if you choose.  He gains an extra
attack, but due to the difficulty of wielding two of them, he
only strikes at +1 strength for the first turn of combat.




Zealots: 20 gold crowns to hire
-------------------------------

When a man loses his family, home and all he cared
for, religion is often the last refuge left to him. Such
men become wandering pilgrims, bitter and
dangerous fanatics who are prepared to avenge their
loss at any cost. These men are called Zealots.

Zealots have forsaken their former lives and exist only
to destroy evil and the minions of Chaos. Whilst they
might have been peasants and craftsmen before, and
thus may not be as dangerous in a fight as seasoned
mercenaries, their determination and fanaticism
should not be underestimated.

Witch Hunters find ready allies in their ranks, and many
a band of Zealots is led by Witch Hunters.  Witch hunter
sergeants are always on the lookout for a zealot with a
sharp eye, and a ready bow.


Profile M WS BS S T W I A Ld
____________________________
         4   2   3  3  3 1 3 1  6

Weapons/Armour: Zealots may be equipped with
weapons and armour chosen from the Zealot
Equipment list (rather than print the whole damned equipment
list here for one tiny change, just add crossbows to the zealot list).




0-5 Warhounds: 15 gold crowns to buy
------------------------------------

Witch Hunters often keep packs of ferocious hunting
dogs. With their huge jaws and powerful bite, they are
perfect for hunting down (and tearing apart) any
heretics, mutants, deviants and witches.

Profile M WS BS S T W I A Ld
____________________________
         6   4    0 4  3 1 4 1  5

Weapons/Armour: Jaws and brutality! Warhounds
never use or need weapons and armour.

SPECIAL RULES
Animals: Warhounds are animals and thus do not
gain experience.



Alpha Dog
----------------------------------------

The witch Hunter Sergeant is looking
for a special pet.  Not just any dog will do, however.  The
Sergeant wants an impressive specimen.

If you have a witch hunter sergeant in your warband you may
have him search out an Alpha Dog. This animal costs 25 + 2d6 gold,
and is a rare 10 item.  Only the Sergeant may search for an Alpha Dog!

Once purchased, it counts as a hired sword. It has an upkeep cost of
5 gold (+1 gold for every advance earned), as the sergeant likes to spoil it.


Profile M WS BS S T W I A Ld
____________________________
         6   4   0  4 4  1 4 1  6


Special rules:

Follow the Leader: If the Alpha Dog is within 6" of any warhounds, they may test on the Alpha Dog's LD. Alpha Dog will always view the Sergeant as the leader and may make LD tests on his leadership if he is withing 6".  The Alpha Dog will not test on anybody else's LD. 

"Chopper! Sic balls!": Alpha Dog gains +1 attack when charging.

Snips and snails and puppy dogs tails: Alpha dogs are tough as nails. To reflect this, they only die on a roll of 1, when taken out of action. If a 2 is rolled, he does not die, but must sit out the next battle while his wounds heal.

Man's Best Friend: If the Alpha Dog is slain, the Sergeant will be unable to go searching for a replacement for D3 battles while he mourns the loss of his beloved pet. During this time he suffers -1 LD. If the Sergeant dies, the Alpha Dog will not fight for D3 battles, or until a new Sergeant is hired to replace him.

Good Boy!: Alpha dogs gain one experience point per battle, and one for every enemy they take out of action.  They never earn bonus experience for being the underdog, or experience for any other reason not listed above. 

When an upgrade is indicated, roll on the Alpha Dog advance table.  If you roll an advance that you've already gotten, re-roll until you get a result that you do not yet have.

1) +1 Attack
2) +1 WS
3) +1 LD
4) +1 Str
5) +1 Wound
6) Cause Fear

Note: The Alpha Dog should instantly be recognizable so that he doesn't
get mixed up with the other dogs.  You can paint him differently, put him
on a bigger base (or a fancier base), add some conversions, or whatever...
just make him stand out from the rest.




Author's Notes: Henchmen

The warband size has been upgraded to 15, so you can have a few more henchmen in your warband.  12 was ridiculously small, so I felt it was necessary to bring them up to the standard warband size.

Flagellants have had thier str reduced to 3, in keeping with the strength limitations for my house rules (attacks is capped at str 6).  The new morning star rules actually give you a lot of versatility when equipping your flagellants, and should more than make up for the strength reduction. 

The "tough as nails" rule makes them harder to kill, which is both fluffy, and useful since they are prohibited from wearing armor (my campaign house rules are being built to make armor worth taking).  Because flagellants are better than they were I cut the maximum down to 4 from 5.

Zealots lost a point of leadership and gained a point of ballistic skill and the ability to take crossbows.  The way I see it, the flagellants and dogs do most of the fighting, while the zealots give your henchmen a bit of decent ranged potential. 

The Leadership was reduced by one point to offset the improved shooing potential, and keep them cheap.  I think they're still pretty balanced, but much more useful now.  Fluff text has been tweaked just a tiny but to reflect thier improved ballistic skill.

Warhounds are unchanged.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2009, 08:29:02 PM by Pistol Pete »
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Offline Pistol Pete

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Re: A more balanced Mordheim- New Witch Hunter Warband rules.
« Reply #36 on: October 13, 2009, 08:33:11 PM »
By the way, thanks, rufas, for the input.  Your complaints were very helpful in the making of this alternate warband list.   :::cheers:::
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Offline rufus sparkfire

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Re: A more balanced Mordheim- New Witch Hunter Warband rules.
« Reply #37 on: October 14, 2009, 10:17:32 AM »
You're welcome!

Only four flagellants allowed now, and no more S4? Still, I think the new morning star rule and (especially) the hard to kill rule are nice enough to compensate for the losses. Any thoughts on the 'use the a flagellant's leadership for rout tests if the leader is out of action' issue the rules have at the moment? Maybe put something in to prevent it?

I like the zealot changes. Now they actually have a reason to exist.

Dogs are still fine, especially with the warband size increase.

I'm not keen on calling the captain an inquisitor, especially since there is now a sergeant. I think that if you add a sergeant, you ought to keep the captain. But it doesn't really matter.

I like the acolytes.

I'm not sure about the sergeant. You seem to be charging extra for him, just because he can hire the superdog... but surely, the dog's cost is accounted for by, well, the dog's cost. I think you should drop him back to 25, or raise him to BS 4 and make him 35.

I like the name of the rule that lets him take a dog though...

As for the dog: firstly, as a rare item with a variable cost, you can't buy it for a starting warband under the normal rules. Maybe put a set cost in for a starter band.

Secondly, it's not very good. It's expensive to buy, has an upkeep cost, and it's still going to die pretty easily. I don't think I'd bother with it.

It should at least be able to use the sergeant's leadership if within 6" of him.


On the whole though, good work!


p.s. You think pistols are too good? Why?
Hey, I could still beat up a woman!
If I wanted to.

Offline Pistol Pete

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Re: A more balanced Mordheim- New Witch Hunter Warband rules.
« Reply #38 on: October 14, 2009, 12:38:28 PM »
Quote
Any thoughts on the 'use the a flagellant's leadership for rout tests if the leader is out of action' issue the rules have at the moment? Maybe put something in to prevent it?

Could you clarify this?  I'm not sure what you're getting at..   :?

Quote
I'm not keen on calling the captain an inquisitor, especially since there is now a sergeant. I think that if you add a sergeant, you ought to keep the captain. But it doesn't really matter.

I'm not absolutely stuck on those names.  I think Inquisitor is much better than captain, because that's essentially his function, and he's got the backing of the grand theologist, fluff-wise. 

I could've gone with "Witch Hunter Inquisitor Captain", but that might've been a mouthful.   :icon_eek:

I didn't want to call the sergeant a captain, because captains are usually the leaders of the warband, and that could get confusing.  Sergeant conveys his sense of middle management nicely, but if you've got a better name, I'll consider it.

"Acolytes" is the one name I'm not sure of.  I wanted to avoid "youngbloods" since that's a mercenary thing, but the only other titles I could think of for a Noob in a quasi-religeous/military orgnaization were Initiate, Novice, and Altar Boy.  Acolyte seemd the lesser of 4 evils.   :icon_mrgreen:

Quote
I'm not sure about the sergeant. You seem to be charging extra for him, just because he can hire the superdog... but surely, the dog's cost is accounted for by, well, the dog's cost. I think you should drop him back to 25, or raise him to BS 4 and make him 35.

Oops, my bad.  Yes, he's BS4 now (but I kept the points at 30).  Now that he's the only "big" witch hunter, BS 4 is entirely reasonable.

Quote
I like the name of the rule that lets him take a dog though...


I thought it would be appropriate for a witch hunter.   :icon_mrgreen:

Quote
As for the dog: firstly, as a rare item with a variable cost, you can't buy it for a starting warband under the normal rules. Maybe put a set cost in for a starter band.

Secondly, it's not very good. It's expensive to buy, has an upkeep cost, and it's still going to die pretty easily. I don't think I'd bother with it.

It should at least be able to use the sergeant's leadership if within 6" of him.

I decided the dog should have to be something you have to go out and find, given that it's a special dog.  That's why it's not available at the start.

I do agree though, that compared to other hireswords, he's a bit weak.  I'll tweak him out a bit, and make him worthwhile.  I'll put the new improved dog in the henchmen section when I'm through.

Quote
p.s. You think pistols are too good? Why?

Standard pistols aren't bad, but Duelling pistols are a hot topic whenever the subject of cheese and mordheim comes up.

Warplock pistols on the other hand... ::heretic::
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Offline Fandir Nightshade

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Re: A more balanced Mordheim- New Witch Hunter Warband rules.
« Reply #39 on: October 14, 2009, 01:26:07 PM »
The dog rule is cool...but first I read

burn the witch...

and your dog too...


Offline Pistol Pete

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Re: A more balanced Mordheim- New Witch Hunter Warband rules.
« Reply #40 on: October 14, 2009, 01:54:42 PM »
Quote
The dog rule is cool...but first I read

burn the witch...

and your dog too...

Yeah... I could see how that might be a little confusing.  GW does sometimes have special rules that "stack" thematically.  But in this case it's just a little Wizard of Oz reference.   :icon_mrgreen:  (The green smiley was another.)


For those of you paying attention, the new Alpha dog rules are up, in the henchmen section.

Since he's the sergeant's pet, he may use his leadership (instead of the Inquisitor's) and the other warhounds may use the alpha dog's leadership.  It's a nice synergy between the three, I think.

I bumped the LD and Toughness up a point, and instead of giving him two attacks, I gave him a bonus attack on the charge.  I also made him "tough as nails", since he can't wear armor.

Since he can't use equipment or weapons, I also gave him his own little table for advances, so that he'll continue to grow into a potentially nasty beast.
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Offline Fandir Nightshade

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Re: A more balanced Mordheim- New Witch Hunter Warband rules.
« Reply #41 on: October 14, 2009, 02:21:14 PM »
Perhaps you should include a rule that the witch hunter player has to scream something hollywood like if his pet dog dies...


"Nooooooooooo my friend yellow!" (I cried so bad after that movie ....I was ....well 16 or something)

I think the vampires as they stand are well...awkward at the least I think zombies should be weaker but with a higher body count.

Offline Pistol Pete

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Re: A more balanced Mordheim- New Witch Hunter Warband rules.
« Reply #42 on: October 14, 2009, 03:46:59 PM »
Quote
"Nooooooooooo my friend yellow!" (I cried so bad after that movie ....I was ....well 16 or something)

Read "Where the Red Fern Grows" sometime.  It's better than Old Yeller, but try not to cry like a baby when you're through...  :cry:

Quote
Perhaps you should include a rule that the witch hunter player has to scream something hollywood like if his pet dog dies...

Sure... we could have them deliver a monologue (lasting no less than one minute) in the style of: (roll 1-6 on the hammy actor chart)

1) William Shatner
2) Christopher Walken
3) Jack Nicholson
4) Al Pachino
5) Gary Oldman
6) Tom Green  :icon_eek:

I've always like games with quirky rules like this, but getting the players to go along is usually futile.   :dry:



Quote
I think the vampires as they stand are well...awkward at the least I think zombies should be weaker but with a higher body count.

Interesting.  Is there anything else about the undead that you find doesn't work well, is too powerful, or is just plain awkward?
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Offline Fandir Nightshade

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Re: A more balanced Mordheim- New Witch Hunter Warband rules.
« Reply #43 on: October 14, 2009, 03:55:15 PM »
I would love to poor much more into this thread but I haven´t played mordheim for a long time and my tries to activate some guys here in Karlsruhe are well...it hasn´t worked yet but I stay optimistic.

I think all my views are kind of biased due time and the warbands I have played.

I would go with your quirky rules as I like this kind of stuff in campaigns too. (much better than boring plain rules).

I liked the idea of a vampire band but discarded the idea because they seemed to weak for me. They have one strong hero the other ones are quite semi brutal and have little access to ranged weapons, their henchmen are also not the real git of the gat as the zombies don´t advance and the ghouls (if I remember correct they are alive and can advance) have no access to weapons (If I remember correct).

Offline rufus sparkfire

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Re: A more balanced Mordheim- New Witch Hunter Warband rules.
« Reply #44 on: October 14, 2009, 03:58:33 PM »
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Any thoughts on the 'use the a flagellant's leadership for rout tests if the leader is out of action' issue the rules have at the moment? Maybe put something in to prevent it?

Could you clarify this?  I'm not sure what you're getting at..   :?

When your warband's leader is out of action (or even just knocked down/stunned, I think) you take rout tests on the best leadership available in your warband. There's nothing in the rules to stop you using a flagellant's LD 10. Maybe put in a note in the flagellant rules to prevent it.


I don't mind the name 'acolyte.' The other names are fine too (in other words, I can't think of anything better).

I think you gave the sergeant S4 instead of BS4 by mistake.

The new alpha dog is brilliant! I'd get one now.


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Standard pistols aren't bad, but Duelling pistols are a hot topic whenever the subject of cheese and mordheim comes up.

Oh. I haven't used duelling pistols (witch hunters can't without buying a skill).
Hey, I could still beat up a woman!
If I wanted to.

Offline Pistol Pete

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Re: A more balanced Mordheim- New Witch Hunter Warband rules.
« Reply #45 on: October 14, 2009, 08:23:02 PM »
Quote
When your warband's leader is out of action (or even just knocked down/stunned, I think) you take rout tests on the best leadership available in your warband. There's nothing in the rules to stop you using a flagellant's LD 10. Maybe put in a note in the flagellant rules to prevent it.

Missed that one... I'll fix it.
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Offline Von Kurst

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Re: A more balanced Mordheim- New Witch Hunter Warband rules.
« Reply #46 on: October 15, 2009, 12:59:26 AM »
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p.s. You think pistols are too good? Why?

Standard pistols aren't bad, but Duelling pistols are a hot topic whenever the subject of cheese and mordheim comes up.

Warplock pistols on the other hand... ::heretic::
Dueling pistols?  Do these people know how the pistol/dueling pistol rules work?  Or do I know how the pistol rules work?  You talk to a herd of different people than I do. Dueling pistols and cheese?  I suppose it could look that way to a Beastman player, but I'm lost.  I've played with a lot of bitchy gamers in the past 10 yrs, but no one has complained about dueling pistols...
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Offline Pistol Pete

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Re: A more balanced Mordheim- New Witch Hunter Warband rules.
« Reply #47 on: October 15, 2009, 04:16:46 AM »
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Dueling pistols?  Do these people know how the pistol/dueling pistol rules work?  Or do I know how the pistol rules work?  You talk to a herd of different people than I do. Dueling pistols and cheese?  I suppose it could look that way to a Beastman player, but I'm lost.  I've played with a lot of bitchy gamers in the past 10 yrs, but no one has complained about dueling pistols...

In the hands of a tooled up character they're nasty.  Of course the same could be said for any weapon, really. :icon_mrgreen:

I don't think I'm going to really mess with them at this point, but I'll be keeping an eye on them during future campaigns just to make sure they're not abusive.
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Offline Dazgrim

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Re: A more balanced Mordheim- New Witch Hunter Warband rules.
« Reply #48 on: October 15, 2009, 01:44:30 PM »
High strength becomes important when parrying. As models can't parry attacks made with more than double their strength.
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Offline Pistol Pete

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Re: A more balanced Mordheim- New Witch Hunter Warband rules.
« Reply #49 on: October 15, 2009, 10:58:55 PM »
Hmmmm... I'm giving this a lot of thought.  There are a couple of different ways to handle this, but it'll be tricky to do without shifting game balance too much.
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