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Author Topic: Experimental VC Mordheim List  (Read 6150 times)

Offline FictionalCharacter

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Experimental VC Mordheim List
« on: November 03, 2009, 11:13:13 PM »
i've been inspired by wiss' unique mordheim list, and have decided to tackle some of the shortcomings i've found in the undead list (namely that it's dull). i'd love any input you guys have. this first draft is just a really really rough sketch. hopefully there's something to it.

HEROES

The player must choose either a Blood Dragon or Necrarch to lead the warband.
0-1 Blood Dragon Vampire, 110 Gold
M   WS   BS   S   T   W   I   A   LD   Exp
6    4    4    4    4    2   5   2    8    20
Leader, Cause Fear, Immune to Psychology, Immune to Poison, No Pain

0-1 Necrarch Vampire, 110 Gold
M   WS   BS   S   T   W   I   A   LD   Exp
6    3    3    3    4    2   5   2    8    20
Leader, Cause Fear, Immune to Psychology, Immune to Poison, No Pain, Wizard

0-1 Necromancer, 40 Gold
M   WS   BS   S   T   W   I   A   LD   Exp
4    3    3    3    3    1   3   1    7    8
Wizard

A warband may not take a Necromancer if a Necrarch is the leader.

0-1 Wight, 60 Gold
M   WS   BS   S   T   W   I   A   LD   Exp
4    3    0    4    4    1   4   1    6    8
Cause Fear, Immune to Psychology

Wight Blade: Add +1 to injury table rolls for any wound inflicted by a Wight with a common weapon.

0-3 Dreg, 20 Gold
M   WS   BS   S   T   W   I   A   LD
4    2    2    3    3    1   3   1    7

HENCHMEN

Ghoul (Bought in Groups of 1-5), 40 Gold Each
M   WS   BS   S   T   W   I   A   LD
4    2    2    3    4    1   3   2    5
Cause Fear, May Not Carry Equipment

Skeleton Warriors (Bought in Groups of 1-5), 30 Gold Each
M   WS   BS   S   T   W   I   A   LD
4    2    2    3    3    1   2   1    5
Cause Fear

Zombie, 15 Gold
M   WS   BS   S   T   W   I   A   LD
4    2    0    3    3    1   1   1    4
Cause Fear, May Not Run, May Not Carry Equipment, Immune to Psychology, Immune to Poison, No Pain, No Brain

0-5 Dire Wolf, 45 Gold
M   WS   BS   S   T   W   I   A   LD
9    3    0    4    3    1   2   1    4
Cause Fear, Charge, Immune to Psychology, Immune to Poison, Unliving, No Pain

Choose equipment from the Undead Equipment List.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2009, 11:27:20 PM by FictionalCharacter »

Offline rufus sparkfire

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Re: Experimental VC Mordheim List
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2009, 01:41:12 PM »
It looks like you can start with six heroes if you use the fighty-vampire. If so, then I don't think that's a good idea. Starting with six heroes is a major advantage, and almost unheard of (only skaven can, as far as I can remember, and if skaven can do something it's usually a sign that it's unbalanced).

Presumably, the skeletons are supposed to have all the undead rules (no running, no gaining experience and so on)?

I like the Wight, though his wight blade should be an actual item (that could be lost) rather than a power that affects any weapon he has. That rule is fine in warhammer, but I don't think it makes too much sense in Mordheim. Also, 8 experience is low considering his awesome profile. He looks like a 12 at least.

Lastly, you seem to have added new choices to the list without taking any away. So this list is just better than the one in the rulebook. That seems a little hard to justify.
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Offline wissenlander

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Re: Experimental VC Mordheim List
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2009, 01:57:49 PM »
The night goblin list allows 6 characters.  It's in the final stages of experimental design, so not really sure how much relevance that has.  They are night goblins though, and they need all the help they can get...
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Offline FictionalCharacter

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Re: Experimental VC Mordheim List
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2009, 02:13:43 PM »
It looks like you can start with six heroes if you use the fighty-vampire. If so, then I don't think that's a good idea. Starting with six heroes is a major advantage, and almost unheard of (only skaven can, as far as I can remember, and if skaven can do something it's usually a sign that it's unbalanced).

Presumably, the skeletons are supposed to have all the undead rules (no running, no gaining experience and so on)?

I like the Wight, though his wight blade should be an actual item (that could be lost) rather than a power that affects any weapon he has. That rule is fine in warhammer, but I don't think it makes too much sense in Mordheim. Also, 8 experience is low considering his awesome profile. He looks like a 12 at least.

Lastly, you seem to have added new choices to the list without taking any away. So this list is just better than the one in the rulebook. That seems a little hard to justify.

thanks for the input.

i haven't played the game enough to notice things like the head start on the number of heroes, so thanks for pointing it out. i just think the undead list is exceedingly dull. i can always just add that only five heroes can be taken when a warband is created.

as for skeletons, i didn't want to give them all of the undead special rules because i didn't want to run up the cost. i marked them same as ghouls, but this list was from before ghouls were considered undead, though, so i should probably figure something out with that. i really just wanted another henchman option that can actually gain experience (that's what campaigns are for!), and perhaps actually carry equipment.

now i'm thinking i could actually drop the wight, drop the skeletons, and perhaps add grave guard as a henchmen group... or have wights (with a lowered stat line) simply replace dregs.

the wight blade thing is a great point as well. it could be made to only apply to the starting weapon. and you're right, the experience is too low for that stat line. that's another thing i overlooked because i haven't run enough campaigns.

as for adding and not subtracting. that's true. i guess i didn't really think about it that much because of how boring i find the original list in general. i'd get rid of dire wolves entirely, along with maybe the aforementioned elimination of dregs and lowering of wight stats.

Offline FictionalCharacter

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Re: Experimental VC Mordheim List
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2009, 02:23:21 PM »
HEROES

The player must choose either a Blood Dragon or Necrarch to lead the warband. A warband may not field both vampires.

0-1 Blood Dragon Vampire, 110 Gold
M   WS   BS   S   T   W   I   A   LD   Exp
6    4    4    4    4    2   5   2    8    20
Leader, Cause Fear, Immune to Psychology, Immune to Poison, No Pain

0-1 Necrarch Vampire, 110 Gold
M   WS   BS   S   T   W   I   A   LD   Exp
6    3    3    3    4    2   5   2    8    20
Leader, Cause Fear, Immune to Psychology, Immune to Poison, No Pain, Wizard

0-1 Necromancer, 35 Gold
M   WS   BS   S   T   W   I   A   LD   Exp
4    3    3    3    3    1   3   1    7    8
Wizard

A warband may not take a Necromancer if a Necrarch is the leader.

0-3 Dreg, 20 Gold
M   WS   BS   S   T   W   I   A   LD
4    2    2    3    3    1   3   1    7

HENCHMEN

Ghoul (Bought in Groups of 1-5), 40 Gold Each
M   WS   BS   S   T   W   I   A   LD
4    2    2    3    4    1   3   2    5
Cause Fear, May Not Carry Equipment

Grave Guard (Bought in Groups of 1-5), 35 Gold Each
M   WS   BS   S   T   W   I   A   LD
4    2    0    3    3    1   3   1    5
Cause Fear, Immune to Psychology, Wight Blade, Strong Bond

Wight Blade: Add +1 to injury table rolls for any wound inflicted by a Grave Guard. This rule only applies to the initial weapon with which the group is equipped.

Strong Bond: The energy by which the Vampire Counts re-animate Guard is far stronger than the magic used to command a basic zombie. As a result, Grave Guard may gain experience as a henchman group, and may run if they are within 12" of the warband's leader.

Zombie, 15 Gold
M   WS   BS   S   T   W   I   A   LD
4    2    0    3    3    1   1   1    4
Cause Fear, May Not Run, May Not Carry Equipment, Immune to Psychology, Immune to Poison, No Pain, No Brain

Choose equipment from the Undead Equipment List.

something like this, mayhaps?

Offline rufus sparkfire

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Re: Experimental VC Mordheim List
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2009, 02:30:07 PM »
Yes, that's much better. I think it looks very playable now.

I don't know that I'd use a necrach though, since it means losing a hero choice (no necromancer). Maybe you should allow an alternate hero choice for necrach warbands - something fighty to make up for the weaker vampire. You could put the wight hero back in for necrachs only.

Hey, I could still beat up a woman!
If I wanted to.

Offline FictionalCharacter

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Re: Experimental VC Mordheim List
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2009, 02:32:25 PM »
perhaps a wight king? could always allow a fourth dreg in necrarch warbands.

Offline rufus sparkfire

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Re: Experimental VC Mordheim List
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2009, 02:36:43 PM »
Rather a wight king than another dreg, I think. Dregs are very poor quality heroes, after all.
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If I wanted to.

Offline Von Kurst

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Re: Experimental VC Mordheim List
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2009, 02:48:50 PM »
I know it is your wheel that you are inventing and that is important, but some of the work you are doing has been done.  There is a Necrarch warband called the Soul Stealers.  I think they are part of the Sylvannia setting.
Blood Dragons have been done for Mousolin, Lhamians for Khemri.

Checking those out would let you see what others have done at least.  I think the wight is a good idea, although perhaps as a Grave Guard rather than a hero.

6 Heroes--the Forest Goblins also start with 6 heroes. (Lustria, Nemesis Crown)
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Offline FictionalCharacter

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Re: Experimental VC Mordheim List
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2009, 04:01:37 PM »
I know it is your wheel that you are inventing and that is important, but some of the work you are doing has been done.  There is a Necrarch warband called the Soul Stealers.  I think they are part of the Sylvannia setting.
Blood Dragons have been done for Mousolin, Lhamians for Khemri.

Checking those out would let you see what others have done at least.  I think the wight is a good idea, although perhaps as a Grave Guard rather than a hero.

6 Heroes--the Forest Goblins also start with 6 heroes. (Lustria, Nemesis Crown)

thanks for pointing me toward some alternatives. i haven't been able to track down an active link for the necrarch list, though.

yeah i'm sure a lot of this has been done. i'm not naive enough to think that i'm the first person who thought to put a wight in the list ;) as long as the list works and it's interesting, i'm happy.

let's try this again, eh? this basically allows for one distinct necrarch build and one distinct blood dragon build:

HEROES

The player must choose either a Blood Dragon or Necrarch to lead the warband. A warband may not field both vampires.

0-1 Blood Dragon Vampire, 110 Gold
M   WS   BS   S   T   W   I   A   LD   Exp
6    4    4    4    4    2   5   2    8    20
Leader, Cause Fear, Immune to Psychology, Immune to Poison, No Pain

0-1 Necrarch Vampire, 110 Gold
M   WS   BS   S   T   W   I   A   LD   Exp
6    3    3    3    4    2   5   2    8    20
Leader, Cause Fear, Immune to Psychology, Immune to Poison, No Pain, Wizard

0-1 Necromancer, 35 Gold
M   WS   BS   S   T   W   I   A   LD   Exp
4    3    3    3    3    1   3   1    7    8
Wizard

A warband may not include a Necromancer if a Necrarch is the leader.

0-1 Wight King, 65 Gold
M   WS   BS   S   T   W   I   A   LD   Exp
4    3    0    4    4    1   3   1    6    14
Cause Fear, Immune to Psychology, Immune to Poison, Wight Blade

Wight Blade: Add +1 to injury table rolls for any wound inflicted by a Wight King. This rule only applies to the initial weapon with which the hero is equipped.

A warband may not include a Wight King if a Blood Dragon is the leader.

0-3 Dreg, 20 Gold
M   WS   BS   S   T   W   I   A   LD
4    2    2    3    3    1   3   1    7

HENCHMEN

Ghoul (Bought in Groups of 1-5), 40 Gold Each
M   WS   BS   S   T   W   I   A   LD
4    2    2    3    4    1   3   2    5
Cause Fear, May Not Carry Equipment

Grave Guard (Bought in Groups of 1-5), 35 Gold Each
M   WS   BS   S   T   W   I   A   LD
4    2    0    3    3    1   3   1    5
Cause Fear, Immune to Psychology, Immune to Poison, Wight Blade, Strong Bond

Wight Blade: Add +1 to injury table rolls for any wound inflicted by a Grave Guard. This rule only applies to the initial weapon with which the group is equipped.

Strong Bond: The energy by which the Vampire Counts re-animate Guard is far stronger than the magic used to command a basic zombie. As a result, Grave Guard may gain experience as a henchman group, and may run if they are within 12" of the warband's leader.

Zombie, 15 Gold
M   WS   BS   S   T   W   I   A   LD
4    2    0    3    3    1   1   1    4
Cause Fear, May Not Run, May Not Carry Equipment, Immune to Psychology, Immune to Poison, No Pain, No Brain

Choose equipment from the Undead Equipment List.


Offline FictionalCharacter

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Re: Experimental VC Mordheim List
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2009, 05:05:19 PM »
any other comments from the crowd?

i'm mildly considering trying to run a warband from this list this weekend.

Offline wissenlander

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Re: Experimental VC Mordheim List
« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2009, 05:24:07 PM »
From what we were discussing yesterday, I think it sounds reasonable.  We'll tweak it as we go if we have to.
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Offline Gneisenau

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Re: Experimental VC Mordheim List
« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2009, 05:33:02 PM »
You guys are playing Mordheim together? Cool! :-)

Offline wissenlander

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Re: Experimental VC Mordheim List
« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2009, 05:36:39 PM »
Indeed.  My circle of friends is widening. :icon_eek:
Me and Wissenlander had babies!

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finding photographic evidense that Wiss smiles is going to be hard...

Offline Gneisenau

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Re: Experimental VC Mordheim List
« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2009, 05:55:24 PM »
No matter how much it widens, it will always consist of multiples of pi.

Offline wissenlander

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Re: Experimental VC Mordheim List
« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2009, 05:57:00 PM »
I like pie. 
Me and Wissenlander had babies!

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finding photographic evidense that Wiss smiles is going to be hard...

Offline Pistol Pete

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Re: Experimental VC Mordheim List
« Reply #16 on: November 05, 2009, 07:41:09 PM »
Quote
Rather a wight king than another dreg, I think. Dregs are very poor quality heroes, after all.

Dregs are fine, actually.  They are the vampire equivalent to  youngbloods.  They may start out weak, but they can quickly become powerful.  And they're very characterful.
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Offline rufus sparkfire

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Re: Experimental VC Mordheim List
« Reply #17 on: November 05, 2009, 11:26:56 PM »
What I mean is, you don't want four of them.

That warband looks good to me.
Hey, I could still beat up a woman!
If I wanted to.