Topic: Army Book: Knights

[Warlord]

Northern: you effectively have that now with inner-circle cavalry hammer weilding knights, except that they are also Armour piercing (see above).

Thats what I thought also. Minus the +2S on charge.

Should I also create a demilancer thread? It seems like a decent idea.
If I was going to I would want to find a way to amalgamate outriders and pistoliers.

I think so. In that way, all 3 options can be covered in 1.

[Sejestephan]

What I would really like to see changed with knights in 8th is the upgrade to inner circle.

The knight entry should be like this:

23 pts

WS BS S T W I A ld
  4    3  3 3 1 3 1 8

Equipment: Full plate, shield, Lance, barde warhorse

Options: Any unit of knights may exchange their lances and shields with ... Music, standard and champion bonus ...

Upgrade any unit of knights to Inner circle knights for +4 pts pr. model. A unit of inner circle knights have +1 A on their profile.





So, remove that rediculous +1 str that is useless and don't have them eat up a special choice. This way they would be really fit to fight in the current meta ... hell, they'd be fit to fight, which they can't really do now.

[Warlord]

Basically Inner circle knights have +1 attack?

[Sejestephan]

Yes, but they lose +1 str and become core like ordinary knights.

[Warlord]

Becoming Core I won't happen.

The +1A is perhaps too good - almost makes them the same as Dragon Princes.

[der Hurenwiebel]

so?
Even if they were they'd still strike second even on a charge, against dragon princes.

[Fandir Nightshade]

You forgot the lower Ws, lower I (doesn´t really matter except for pit of shades ...well there it REALLY matters), lower ld, lower M, higher armour save (mucho importante).

Well I am all for the more killingness in models perhaps if every model would have 2-4 attacks (representing not a single model but like....10 or 100 soldiers for each model) could work out and add to the randomness taking out the serious of it.

[kk14]

2 Attacks, as Warlord pointed out, puts our human knights on a level with Dragon Princes, Chaos Knights, and the like. It would dramatically change how Knightly Orders, even Inner Circle ones, can be used and would be used.

[kk14]

Knightly Orders
23 points/model
Knight:      M4 WS4 BS3 S3 T3 A1 I3 W1 Ld 8
Preceptor: M4 WS4 BS3 S3 T3 A2 I3 W1 Ld 8
Steed:       M8 WS3 BS3 S3 T3 A1 I3 W1 Ld 7
Unit Size: 5+
Equipment: Barded Warhorse, Full Plate, Shield, Hand Weapon, Lance
Can upgrade one knight to a musician for 8 points
Can upgrade one knight to a Preceptor for 16 points
Can upgrade one knight to a Standard Bearer for 16 points
Can trade in shields and lances for Cavalry Hammers (+1S and Armour Piercing)
Knightly Orders may be upgrade to Inner Circle knights for 3 points/model. Inner Circle Knights have +1 S and take a Special Slot
For every Templar Grand Master in the army, a unit of Inner Circle Knights becomes core.
A Standard Bearer can carry a magic banner costing up to 50 points

[Fandir Nightshade]

I think they are a great choice this way 

[kk14]

*and take a special slot* -right. serves me right for posting late at night.

[Warlord]

*and take a special slot* -right. serves me right for posting late at night.

  No probs.

[Johedl]

I came in a bit late in this discussion, but heres my two cents. The GW wielding knights isnt a problem. I have used the Order of the Sacret Scythe in my Stirland army and they do just fine. 2+ AS and S5 in all turns. They can block flanks from charges and against HE (I fight them alot) they strike last anyways.
If one think its need fixing then how about this:
Banner of the White Wolf, Magic banner, 30p, IC knights only, When the unit charges their opponents allways strikes last, even if they have ASF.
No need for new weapon rules, keeps to KoWW fluff vise and is an option for other orders that carries other forms of great weapons.

[Warlord]

Inner Circle knights with Great Weapons are fine. Its the non-inner circle type that are useless that people complain about (don't forget GW only give +1S when mounted).

[Johedl]

The discussion was revolving around KotWW so I thought people wanted IC with GW fixed. I agree that ordinary knights armed with GW aren't that great. Strik last with S4 isn't good and the cost of 1+ AS is high. But do Empire need to have good non-IC knights with GW? Take them specificaly against high T opponent with high Ld (Dwarf and perhaps WoC) or go with the ordinairy. GW from horseback is hard to wield and regulars are perhaps better of with lances.
Im OK with my banner suggestion beeing Knights only instead of IC only if it makes it better. I just don't think a new weapon rule is warrented.