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Author Topic: Army Book: Missile troops  (Read 6256 times)

Offline kk14

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Army Book: Missile troops
« on: February 01, 2010, 09:49:17 PM »
Mostly I like how the Empire missile troops work.

One unit I would change: archers
Either: keep their stats as is, but make them 7 points, or give them back longbows, or possibly both.

Change the minimum unit size for scouts to 7.
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Offline Warlord

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Re: Army Book: Missile troops
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2010, 01:24:16 AM »
Mostly I like how the Empire missile troops work.

Me too. Personally I don't like them much, but they are fine. Perhaps give them Light armour for free - wouldn't make much difference either way IMO, but light armour IMO is appropriate.

One unit I would change: archers
Either: keep their stats as is, but make them 7 points, or give them back longbows, or possibly both.

Make them 7 points. Also give them the option to rank up. Allow them to purchase longbows if desired for +1 or 2 pts.

Change the minimum unit size for scouts to 7.

7 or 8 works. 5 is too little, 10 is too much. Should by default come with Longbows, and have the option for Hochland Hunting rifles (same as HLR, however cannot pick out individuals).
Quote from: Gneisenau
I hate people who don't paint their armies, hate them with all my guts. Beats me how they value other things over painting, like eating or brushing teeth.

Offline Fandir Nightshade

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Re: Army Book: Missile troops
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2010, 09:00:42 AM »
I very seldon see handgunners nowadays but loads of crossbows.

Offline commandant

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Re: Army Book: Missile troops
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2010, 11:33:57 PM »
Handgunners are fine, maybe an option to upgrade to veteran handgunners (+1BS) for 2/3 points.
Crossbowmen are fine,
I would drop the min size of archers to 5 for scouting

Like the hunting rifle idea, but can they move and shoot?   I would like to see an elite unit of marksmen, a bit like the British 95th which was BS4 with Hunting rifles as a rare choice maybe?

Offline der Hurenwiebel

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Re: Army Book: Missile troops
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2010, 01:57:21 AM »
I would like the options of pavises, and light armour.  as well as return of longbows as an option or HLR used as a unit.  I think my idea of special experimental engineer weapons has fallen on deaf ears but I'd like those too.  Grenadoes, fire locks, etc.  hell they'd all cost points so it's not like they're free or unbalancing. 

"DEfighter wrote:
Hey, trolls stay the hell out, this is a serious thread. Empire are cheese. 2 steam tanks, a war altar and 4 cannons is so obviously overpowered. Anyone who thinks otherwise clearly hasn't had their dragon shot down on turn 1 yet."

oh really now.  LOL ROFLMAO oh the irony.

Offline Warlord

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Re: Army Book: Missile troops
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2010, 02:21:10 AM »
Scouting archers cannot be min US 5 like they were previously - that is really only reserved for Elves now days. Best we can hope for IMO is US 7 or 8.

As for the engineering team - I like the idea, but I don't think they should be a core choice for a missile unit...
Quote from: Gneisenau
I hate people who don't paint their armies, hate them with all my guts. Beats me how they value other things over painting, like eating or brushing teeth.

Offline der Hurenwiebel

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Re: Army Book: Missile troops
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2010, 06:14:25 AM »
Scouting archers cannot be min US 5 like they were previously - that is really only reserved for Elves now days. Best we can hope for IMO is US 7 or 8.

As for the engineering team - I like the idea, but I don't think they should be a core choice for a missile unit...

OH HECK NO!!  but very certainly a rare unit unlocked by taking an engineer, (he brings his goodies with him you see, well... you still have to pay points for them but that's how you get access to them.)
This would turn a core unit into a rare much like the old huntsmen were.

As for buying grenadoes, I kind of like the idea of them being purchased per use (like scrolls, and powerstones) and deployable in any infantry unit.  Usable at any time (like recieving or during a charge)  with a normal thrown weapon range and die rolled damage determination rather than a template. 

And again something which is unlocked by taking an engineer.
"DEfighter wrote:
Hey, trolls stay the hell out, this is a serious thread. Empire are cheese. 2 steam tanks, a war altar and 4 cannons is so obviously overpowered. Anyone who thinks otherwise clearly hasn't had their dragon shot down on turn 1 yet."

oh really now.  LOL ROFLMAO oh the irony.

Offline Fandir Nightshade

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Re: Army Book: Missile troops
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2010, 06:24:00 AM »
There should be rules for dropping those grenades and go....oh oh.

Offline kk14

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Re: Army Book: Missile troops
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2010, 07:24:11 AM »
Actually, dH. I really like the idea for grenadoes. At X points a unit can purchase grenadoes: as a stand and shoot reaction, the missile unit may throw grenadoes: artillery dice number of hits, S4 AP (???). Misfire does d6 S4 AP to the throwing unit.

I like the veteran handgunners idea, and it would be +2 points or more, otherwise they are categorically more effective than the other missile troops. It makes them feel more like 'state troops'. That said, it becomes inconsistent if we don't give other state troops similar options, which I am not willing to entertain until the entire army is fleshed out.

Agree with Warlord: scouts should not go down to 5. That would cost way too little (as much as a detachment!) especially with a point reduction... nuh-uh.

Engineering teams would be cool, and could probably make great artillery hill defenders. I'm thinking 3+ models, skirmished, with a ton of move or fire weapons, access to all the engineer equipment, light armour, special choice, or possibly rare, and BS 4 This is one of the few occasions where I think bringing in a completely new unit is a good idea. I have no idea how many points this should cost, though. I will think on it more, and open up a new thread probably tomorrow.

I am in favour of longbows if there is no point reduction. Pavises I think should remain Bretonnian-only: it fits their medieval character much better than our renaissance one.
If you can't convince the voters to accept your view, and you take to the gun, you are by definition anti-American.

Veni, Vidi, domum meum redire volo.

Offline Warlord

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Re: Army Book: Missile troops
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2010, 03:51:50 AM »
Actually, dH. I really like the idea for grenadoes. At X points a unit can purchase grenadoes: as a stand and shoot reaction, the missile unit may throw grenadoes: artillery dice number of hits, S4 AP (???). Misfire does d6 S4 AP to the throwing unit.

Why not stand and shoot instead? Greater chance of hitting, but removes one basic rule.

I am in favour of longbows if there is no point reduction. Pavises I think should remain Bretonnian-only: it fits their medieval character much better than our renaissance one.

Dogs of War (Briganza's Besiegers)  have Pavises - not Bretonnians. Bretonnians have stakes - which I agree - feel quite medieval. Pavises not so much - that said, I don't think we should have them at this stage - depending upon the Dogs of War book...
Quote from: Gneisenau
I hate people who don't paint their armies, hate them with all my guts. Beats me how they value other things over painting, like eating or brushing teeth.

Offline der Hurenwiebel

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Re: Army Book: Missile troops
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2010, 07:52:24 AM »
the idea with grenadoes is that they are an item ANY unit can use, on the charge, when being charged, or just because they can.  This would in the case of missile troops be an additonal weapon besides their own, and indeed may be the only weapon available if the enemy are too close. 

"DEfighter wrote:
Hey, trolls stay the hell out, this is a serious thread. Empire are cheese. 2 steam tanks, a war altar and 4 cannons is so obviously overpowered. Anyone who thinks otherwise clearly hasn't had their dragon shot down on turn 1 yet."

oh really now.  LOL ROFLMAO oh the irony.

Offline Warlord

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Re: Army Book: Missile troops
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2010, 02:26:10 PM »
the idea with grenadoes is that they are an item ANY unit can use, on the charge, when being charged, or just because they can.  This would in the case of missile troops be an additonal weapon besides their own, and indeed may be the only weapon available if the enemy are too close.

I don't get why...
Quote from: Gneisenau
I hate people who don't paint their armies, hate them with all my guts. Beats me how they value other things over painting, like eating or brushing teeth.

Offline kk14

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Re: Army Book: Missile troops
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2010, 03:38:02 PM »
Then we would have to tone them down some...
I like them better as a missile troop stand and shoot thing.
Actually, dH. I really like the idea for grenadoes. At X points a unit can purchase grenadoes: as a stand and shoot reaction, the missile unit may throw grenadoes: artillery dice number of hits, S4 AP (???). Misfire does d6 S4 AP to the throwing unit.

Why not stand and shoot instead? Greater chance of hitting, but removes one basic rule.

I am in favour of longbows if there is no point reduction. Pavises I think should remain Bretonnian-only: it fits their medieval character much better than our renaissance one.

Dogs of War (Briganza's Besiegers)  have Pavises - not Bretonnians. Bretonnians have stakes - which I agree - feel quite medieval. Pavises not so much - that said, I don't think we should have them at this stage - depending upon the Dogs of War book...

About the S&S: that's what I meant (I think). When they stand and shoot, they may instead throw their grenadoes. Did I understand your post right?

My bad on the pavises. Still, they don't feel very Empire to me. Perhaps, as Warlord says, after the DoW book.
If you can't convince the voters to accept your view, and you take to the gun, you are by definition anti-American.

Veni, Vidi, domum meum redire volo.

Offline der Hurenwiebel

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Re: Army Book: Missile troops
« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2010, 05:57:17 PM »
What should it matter if halberdiers are using grenadoes or handgunners are at less than 4 inches?  You can only do "stand at shoot" if your enemy is at over half of their charge range that's the only thing I was getting at.  I'd have thought that bit was obvious, also the likelyhood of handgunners getting grenadoes over the great surprize factor of sticking them in the hands of , say militia, is pretty low.  However my question still stands as well as the question stands of how this would tactically be different from something like a dispel scroll or power stone.  Although in a different phase of the turn it's used almost identically, to mess with the enemy's plans, I'm told this is supposed to be a strength of the Empire.  It's merely another option for the use of points, disposable single use points that could be used in the form of a soldier or three.  It's also disposable single use points which can turn around a bite you in the ass, something the empire considers best left to the skaven.   Just a couple thoughts 
"DEfighter wrote:
Hey, trolls stay the hell out, this is a serious thread. Empire are cheese. 2 steam tanks, a war altar and 4 cannons is so obviously overpowered. Anyone who thinks otherwise clearly hasn't had their dragon shot down on turn 1 yet."

oh really now.  LOL ROFLMAO oh the irony.

Offline kk14

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Re: Army Book: Missile troops
« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2010, 04:01:49 AM »
How much would they cost?
If you can't convince the voters to accept your view, and you take to the gun, you are by definition anti-American.

Veni, Vidi, domum meum redire volo.

Offline Warlord

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Re: Army Book: Missile troops
« Reply #15 on: February 07, 2010, 12:02:29 PM »
It feels like an unneccessary change.
Quote from: Gneisenau
I hate people who don't paint their armies, hate them with all my guts. Beats me how they value other things over painting, like eating or brushing teeth.

Offline der Hurenwiebel

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Re: Army Book: Missile troops
« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2010, 09:31:33 AM »
right.   After 10 days away I'm back If I remember correctly from the WAB ECW book they were priced at around 20 pts per unit or 3 pts per model in a unit.  Pretty pricey for a weapon that "might" not get used and can misfire IMO but still it's a starting point and I may be misremembering, I don't have the book open in front of me.   How much would you think a magic item that produced this effect cost?
"DEfighter wrote:
Hey, trolls stay the hell out, this is a serious thread. Empire are cheese. 2 steam tanks, a war altar and 4 cannons is so obviously overpowered. Anyone who thinks otherwise clearly hasn't had their dragon shot down on turn 1 yet."

oh really now.  LOL ROFLMAO oh the irony.

Offline kk14

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Re: Army Book: Missile troops
« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2010, 08:05:18 AM »
For now I'm sticking the Grenades on the Engineer and The Special Weapons team (or whatever we're going to call them).

Putting them on State Troops seems not only unnecessary, but also out of character.
If you can't convince the voters to accept your view, and you take to the gun, you are by definition anti-American.

Veni, Vidi, domum meum redire volo.