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Author Topic: Halberds bad? Why?  (Read 20123 times)

Offline Shadowlord

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Re: Halberds bad? Why?
« Reply #50 on: February 13, 2010, 11:57:58 PM »
Read some rumours again, by the same reliable sources that while Ogres may be the next fantasy army release, they won't be the next fantasy release. I suspect, and they hint it, that we may finally see new Knights in may together with new Boar Boyz and those undead horsemen (forgot their name).
My hood is my castle...

Offline Derek Contyre

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Re: Halberds bad? Why?
« Reply #51 on: February 17, 2010, 08:41:25 AM »
Black knights?
A man who builds his army around his fluff . . . respect . . .  :::cheers:::

Offline jturner

  • Posts: 229
Re: Halberds bad? Why?
« Reply #52 on: February 18, 2010, 03:51:49 AM »
[quote

Also sales for larger blocks is one factor.

[/quote]

What? I thought they were making ranks minimum 7 wide to achieve that....

Also, wait, wait....halberds are bad? And there is a thread about this?
Quote from: Mathi Alfblut on April 07, 2010, 12:47:56 PM


    But the booty was staggering

Offline Uryens de Crux

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Re: Halberds bad? Why?
« Reply #53 on: February 18, 2010, 08:44:43 AM »
We go to gain a little patch of ground that hath in it no profit but the name.
The Free Company of Solland

The Barony of Wusterburg

Offline VladimirDeathblade

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Re: Halberds bad? Why?
« Reply #54 on: February 18, 2010, 04:04:26 PM »
Well, seeing as the blood knights had shiny new models (and are shiny new in general :p) when the book came out, I rather assume it's Black Knights. Seeing as those models are pushing 5th edition I think...

It's just a pity they are going to cost a fortune. I want to update mine. Aahh well.
That and the won't fit with my old skellies.

Offline Batu

  • Posts: 153
Re: Halberds bad? Why?
« Reply #55 on: February 18, 2010, 05:28:07 PM »
Halberds are great, it's the 6+ save Halberdiers get in close combat which makes them worthless in comparison to Spearmen and Swordsmen.

Agreed, what they need is plate armor and they would be a good choice for the point cost.
It is not the army you must fear....But their General !

Offline Minsc

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Re: Halberds bad? Why?
« Reply #56 on: February 18, 2010, 10:47:57 PM »
If they got FPA everyone would use Halberdiers instead of Greatswords - Stubborn or no Stubborn.

In order to 'fix' our State-troops I suggest;

Halberdiers; Heavy Armour, Halberds, +1 I - 5 pts
Spearmen; Light Armour, Spear, Shield, +1 I - 5 pts
Swordsmen; Light Armour, Shield - 5 pts.

This way, all 3 of them have their own strenght compared to the other and swordsmen will no longer be the obvious best-choice they are now;

Halberdiers got +1 Str & 5+ AS.
Spearmen got +1 A, & 5+ AS. (possible 4+ AS but then no +1 A)
Swordsmen got +1 WS & 4+ AS.

I also think that Free Company needs some kind of buff. Perhaps make them cost 4 Points / Modell?

In addition I think that Greatswords should either become cheaper or get some nifty specialrule - Stubborn, 4+ AS and 1 S5 strike last attack at WS4 is no way near worth 10 points/modell.

Flagellants also need some love, either a pointreduction or +1WS or +1T (they are so worked up they don't feel pain as much as normal humans would.) or something.

Offline Batu

  • Posts: 153
Re: Halberds bad? Why?
« Reply #57 on: February 19, 2010, 12:35:59 AM »
Plate Armor would be good for the hal IMO. 

Spearmen (fight 2 ranks)
Swordsmen WS4.  HA, Sh, HW (AS 4 also) but hit better.
Hal +1 Str  4+AS good for fighting higher T units while still attacking at initiative.
Great Swords: Str 5, 4+AS Stubborn so they wont break is decent.  though they are a little expensive when comparing them to new "elites" like saurus etc.  they should have 2 attacks.

Flagellents need to be T4 since they (IMO) die to quickly.

Free company for the points are good as they are with 2 attacks.

I doubt GW will change the basic stat line of the human so additional initiative is prob not going to happen.
It is not the army you must fear....But their General !

Offline Minsc

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Re: Halberds bad? Why?
« Reply #58 on: February 19, 2010, 01:05:49 AM »
Quote
Swordsmen WS4.  HA, Sh, HW (AS 4 also) but hit better.
Hal +1 Str  4+AS good for fighting higher T units while still attacking at initiative.

If Halberdiers came with FPA, noone would ever take Swordsmen - Because WS3 S4 is just so much better than WS4 S3. (also with FPA they get a 4+ save vs shooting, the Swordsmen don't.)

Also, people would probably not use Greatswords either,  because S4 I3 is probably better than S5 I1 most of the time and the halberdiers would probably be cheap enough for people not to care about the fact that Greatswords are Stubborn. Especially if Greatswords keep beeing a special-choice. This is all hypothetical ofcourse since we have no way of knowing what a Halberdier with FPA would cost/modell.

That said, if Greatswords got say 2 attacks they might be a viable option.
(However I serously doubt that Halberdiers will ever get FPA in the first place. It's not that fluffy either.)

Quote
I doubt GW will change the basic stat line of the human so additional initiative is prob not going to happen

The basic human is indeed I3 - however state troops are trained humans and can get I4, evidently - just look at our current Swordsmen; they are I4.
It would only be fighty Statetroops (Sword/Halberds/Spearmen/Greatswords) that would be I4 though, Archers, Handgunners, Crossbows, Free Company and Flagellants should stay I3.




Offline Folken

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Re: Halberds bad? Why?
« Reply #59 on: February 19, 2010, 02:44:46 AM »
This is starting to turn into a thread that belongs in the other 8th edition stuff no?

Offline Caralon

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Re: Halberds bad? Why?
« Reply #60 on: February 19, 2010, 03:13:23 AM »
I tend to use spears and swords just because those are the models I have, but I like halberdiers just fine.  Even though swordsmen might technically be "better", it's not like they are actually going to WIN a fight anyways.
There are very few problems that cannot be solved with cannons.

Offline Tiberius

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Re: Halberds bad? Why?
« Reply #61 on: February 19, 2010, 08:01:34 AM »
Well, I would say they are not more likely to "win" a fight by kills, but they are more likely to win a fight by denying wounds and static combat res.
But then again no state troop unit is likely to win any fight by itself.

Offline Uryens de Crux

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Re: Halberds bad? Why?
« Reply #62 on: February 19, 2010, 08:40:46 AM »
I think the easiest way to "fix" halberdiers is to up their armour, give them heavy armour, makes them as survivable as spearmen and then it becomes a straight choice between an extra rank of attack in defence or more killyness in attack and gives them the same missile save as all the others.

As for a free company buff...give them an option for a ranged attack - +2 points for an 8" Str 3 attack, maybe in the same way knoblars get it.
We go to gain a little patch of ground that hath in it no profit but the name.
The Free Company of Solland

The Barony of Wusterburg

Offline Derek Contyre

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Re: Halberds bad? Why?
« Reply #63 on: February 20, 2010, 01:39:54 AM »
 Like throwing knives  ::heretic::
A man who builds his army around his fluff . . . respect . . .  :::cheers:::

Offline Uryens de Crux

  • Posts: 3751
Re: Halberds bad? Why?
« Reply #64 on: February 20, 2010, 09:29:26 AM »
knives, axed, pots, pans etc. :ph34r:
We go to gain a little patch of ground that hath in it no profit but the name.
The Free Company of Solland

The Barony of Wusterburg

Offline PhillyT

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Re: Halberds bad? Why?
« Reply #65 on: February 20, 2010, 12:43:55 PM »
This is starting to turn into a thread that belongs in the other 8th edition stuff no?

Indeed.  Take it there gentlemen.

Phil
Where did she touch you Eight? Show us on the doll.

Offline Mathi Alfblut

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Re: Halberds bad? Why?
« Reply #66 on: February 20, 2010, 03:09:28 PM »
Badly done... I hate when threads dissappear like this. Pure luck I found it again since I am never here! After all, we donīt make the 8th ed. list, GW does...
I complain about this!

I want my halberd discussions easily accesible in the best limelight. Not hidden away in far reaches of the forum. :closed-eyes:

Full plate is not fluffy. Heavy armour is ok.
Also, pick up the idea from Mark of Chaos and give them all pistols as a choice. Awesome!
Oh, and remember GW made it personal, not you!

Offline Davido

  • Posts: 537
Re: Halberds bad? Why?
« Reply #67 on: February 22, 2010, 03:51:05 AM »
yes they definitly should have pistols, That would be an epic detachment then, 2 units of free company 1 with pistols to stand and shoot and another for the counter charge, I like.

probably best stick to the 1 pistol though
Yay my rocket battery finally killed something.What do you mean those are my halberdiers.

Offline Smythen

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Re: Halberds bad? Why?
« Reply #68 on: April 07, 2010, 11:18:32 AM »
I just want pikemen, in my empire army. Would fix it all. No one would ever use anything but pikemen as main units, and everything else would just be detachments with different roles.

Offline commandant

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Re: Halberds bad? Why?
« Reply #69 on: April 28, 2010, 04:24:57 PM »
As an infantry army should be :)

Offline DanteValentine

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Re: Halberds bad? Why?
« Reply #70 on: May 18, 2010, 03:14:26 PM »
I'm relatively new to these forums (but an old Warhorse at the game) and though i normally play Dark Elves, Empire is an occasional appearance.

I'm more curious as to what people are expecting their halberdiers to accomplish.

Now i agree that something needs to change and IMO by far the best suggestion has been the "Step over the dead" idea, but there seems to be a lot of call for heavier armour, cheaper (or free shields) etc.

When i play Empire my experience of Halberdiers is: Charge them and let them chop something up, and they dont do too bad.

Let them get charged and they die. En masse. Badly.

But, at the end of the day they are 5 points. What do people really expect them to do. I think even if you stuck them in plate armour they would still be immesenly Medicore Infantry that would struggle against pretty much anything tougher than a slightly angered clan rat!

I dont want to make enemies on this forum (esp considering this is only my 2nd post), but do you really expect a 5 point model to be anything other than target practice for things like Dark Elf Blackguard (whom i appreciate are a steal at 12 points!)

The changes that need to be done to halberdiers need to be in the rules of how they work (so that, even when being butchered they still might drag a few of the enemy down!) rather than just stick them under 6inch of hardened steel and hope that it will solve the problem.

Kind Regards

Dante

Offline BrandonR42

  • Posts: 5
Re: Halberds bad? Why?
« Reply #71 on: June 10, 2010, 11:17:56 AM »
Quote
OK.  I think I understand.  Why does Emperor Karl Franz want every province to have a standing number of Halberdiers then?  Wierd.

Karl plays Dark Elves. Nobody likes Karl. ;)