Topic: Orcs and Goblins - overpowered?

[Wolfgang aus Wien]

Yeah the rule is tucked away on page 80:
"A model should always be mounted on the base it is supplied with."

'Should', eh?
Hardly a cast-in-stone rule........

I was lucky enough to discover fantasy and gaming before GW even existed and find concepts like base sizes, WYSIWYG and (especially) having to use certain models (or certain manufacturer's models.....) to play a GAME somewhere between disturbing and ridiculous.
I will use the models I like - regardless of who makes them - and should any issues arise due to them not conforming to a certain companies' parameters in some fashion, a solution wil be found to make the game make sense.

Worked fine in the 70's and 80's, and guess what - It still does!
At least if you manage to think outside the profiteering and marketing box.

I can to some extent understand that GW do not want people to play with other manufacturer's minis in a GW store or GW tourney, but why they would try to discourage people from being creative with their own product is beyond me.
Didn't use to be this way only about 10 years ago.....

[phillyt]

How am I now gonna be able to convert a high elf dragon into a carnosaur? 

Most of the time it will be fine.  Only rarely will someone give you a real problem.

Wolfgang:  "Should" and "always" are in that sentence.  Just because GW sometimes screws up the wording on things doesn't make it hard to understand.  I think the more important word is always.

[Syn Ace]

Personally, I like it they've started standardizing base sizes because before they did, it would sometimes cause issues when figuring out who could attack what and there were always a few dickheads trying to weasel an advantage.

[phillyt]

Personally, I like it they've started standardizing base sizes because before they did, it would sometimes cause issues when figuring out who could attack what and there were always a few dickheads trying to weasel an advantage.

Nooooo, you think? lol

[Syn Ace]

I think I shared the story before about playing against a guy in 4th edition who used a tiny dragon model mounted on a roughly 20mm base because GW didn't have a dragon model in production at the time (and their previous one didn't come with a base). I watched dumbfounded as he flew it over and landed it in the tiny space in between 2 units in the heart of my army so he could use its 8" terror bubble.

I'll take standardization every time ha ha.

[Not-not-kenny]

Yes, but are there any advantages to having a larger base? Doesn't it just allow more enemies to hit you?

[phillyt]

It increases the size of leadership bubbles.  And forcing people to fight more models is part of what helps even out the power of large creatures.

[Syn Ace]

Just thinking off the top of my head so pardon any mistakes.  You could have a situation where, say a  hero on a pegasus has a terror-causing object and the pegasus is mounted on a 50mm base instead of a 40mm. Now imagine a friendly unit is engaged in an ongoing combat with an enemy unit of swordsmen and there is enough room for the pegasus to charge in so he declares a charge. And right next to the swordsmen is another unengaged enemy unit.  You could have a situation where if the pegasus was mounted on the correct base, he could only engage the swordsmen, but the extra 10 mm of width provided by the 50mm would bring him into contact with the unengaged unit necessitating a terror test.

*edit   Well, the 1" gap would prevent this but could be something similar.

[tcklein]

I don't remember the rules on this, but are you normally allowed to be in contact with 2 different units from a single charge?

[phillyt]

Only if it cannot be avoided.

[Wolfgang aus Wien]

Sorry,guys, I don't mean to split hairs, but a 'should always' is still a 'should'.....

Either way, this isn't so much a base size isue as it is a 'don't play with dickheads' issue.

[phillyt]

Can be, but it is good that they now classify models by type (which needed to happen) and have required them to be on the bases they ship with if they have a base in the box.  Clears up the issue.

And the always makes it an imperative.  The should is a social nicety put in text form.

[rufus sparkfire]

Personally, I like it they've started standardizing base sizes

But they are less standardised now than they were a few years ago when there was a chart with base sizes for all models.

The new rule is quite lax. For example, a pegasus could easily be mounted on a cavalry base, a 40mm square base, or a flying stand, depending on the model and when you bought it. Likewise a griffon could be cavalry base, 40mm square, or 50mm square. All valid for different models!

Fortunately, it will never matter.

[phillyt]

It defaults to army. If you are emote using a pegasus, it is on a 40mm base, regardless of the kit it was from. They do make allowances for old models, though I can't recall griffin on cavalry bases.

[rufus sparkfire]

It defaults to army.

Well, that's not actually what the rules say. The book says use the base the model is supplied with, unless it doesn't have one in which case use one you think appropriate.

There was a bretonnian pegasus on a cavalry base, so I could use that if I wanted instead of one on a 40mm square. And I can't remember if the plastic bretonnian pegasus came with a square base to combine with the round flight stand, but I don't think it did.

Naturally all my pegasus models are on 40mm square bases though!

though I can't recall griffin on cavalry bases.

Ha ha! I can!

http://www.solegends.com/marauder/mm43chaoschampgriff.htm


Also a hippogriff:

http://www.solegends.com/marauder/mm98hippogriff.htm

[phillyt]

There was a bretonnian pegasus on a cavalry base, so I could use that if I wanted instead of one on a 40mm square. And I can't remember if the plastic bretonnian pegasus came with a square base to combine with the round flight stand, but I don't think it did.

That wasn't a pegasus though, that is a pegasus knight.  So if someone wanted to be a jerk and claim they could mount their captain on a cavalry base because that is what the model came on you could say it is nice that they brought the model, but since it is a brettonian model they cannot use it in the game as an empire model!


And I knew you would know a cavalry griffin!

[rufus sparkfire]

since it is a brettonian model they cannot use it in the game as an empire model!

That isn't a rule though.


Anyway, the one on a cavalry base was a hero on a pegasus, from before pegasus knights existed.

[phillyt]

True about the old pegasus.  And there is nothing saying you can use models from other armies.

[rufus sparkfire]

Hmmmm.

I don't want to have that argument!

[phillyt]

Neither do I!  I like to be friendly and let people use the models they want as long as they are reasonable with their bases and rule lawyering.

[Wolfgang aus Wien]

Neither do I!  I like to be friendly and let people use the models they want as long as they are reasonable with their bases and rule lawyering.

Agree 1000%!
In the 70's they used to put surprise toys into shampoo bottles and malt coffee.
Far as I'm concerned, you could use those as unit champions.
Or cavalry.
As long as the spirit of the game is intact and no rules are willfully violated.

I'm not totally sure, but I seem to recall a Bret Pegasus Hero/character who came with a choice of cav or flying base, in a little box.

[Darknight]

If someone was really all up ins about the rule, I'd just start fielding Daemons on the round bases they come with too.