Topic: What's your character's kits!?

[Noble Korhedron]

Charmed shield is "one use only" for those of you who seem to have forgotten; after that it's +1 armour save.


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[Xathrodox86]

Charmed shield is "one use only" for those of you who seem to have forgotten; after that it's +1 armour save.


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It is? There isn't a definite wording on this, if I recall.

Anyway I usually run my WP with a Sword of striking, Charmed shield, Dragonbane gem and either Full plate or some cheap magic armour. Works really well, but I miss the Great weapon.

[Noble Korhedron]

Charmed shield is "one use only" for those of you who seem to have forgotten; after that it's +1 armour save.


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It is? There isn't a definite wording on this, if I recall.

Anyway I usually run my WP with a Sword of striking, Charmed shield, Dragonbane gem and either Full plate or some cheap magic armour. Works really well, but I miss the Great weapon.

BRB, magic armour section; "Shield. One use only. The first hit suffered by the bearer of the Charmed shield is discounted on a roll of 2+." 

[Xathrodox86]

Whooops, I mean "Enchanted Shield". The one which costs 5pts or so?

[Jomppexx]

Whooops, I mean "Enchanted Shield". The one which costs 5pts or so?

Enchanted shield is 5 points for 5+ armour save.

[Noble Korhedron]

Whooops, I mean "Enchanted Shield". The one which costs 5pts or so?

Enchanted shield is 5 points for 5+ armour save.

Yeah, which really shows up how over-costed the Armour of Meteoric Iron is, since it's 50 points for a 1+ armour save and 6+ ward save. At that kind of cost for 2 "pips" of armour save, the AoMI should be 15 points, ever mind 50!! Even counting 15 pts for the 6+ ward save(15 pts for Talisman of Protection - which also gives a 6+ ward save), that's 30 pts in total!! Like W.T.F?!

Also, @Jomppexx: @Xathrodox seems to have the Charmed shield and the Enchanted shield mixed up. Both are magical shields, but one gives two "pips" of armour save whereas the other gives one "pip" of armour save but discounts the first hit suffered on a 2+. Would that include hits from spells do you think? Or from shooting?

[Xathrodox86]

AoIM could be useful on a WP with some nice GW, magical or not. I think that Enchanted Shield protects from all manner of attacks, both mundane and magical.

[Noble Korhedron]

AoIM could be useful on a WP with some nice GW, magical or not. I think that Enchanted Shield protects from all manner of attacks, both mundane and magical.

To clarify, I'm talking about the Charmed shield, and what counts as "the first hit suffered" within it's rules; would it be the first time every model in the character's unit is hit, i.e. shooting and/or magic, or just the first hit suffered in close combat....?

[Fidelis von Sigmaringen]

Actually, you are talking about the Charmed Shield.  And it is the first hit - from whatever source. IMHO, its best use is as protection for a lone character against an early attack by war machines.

[CarolineWellwater]

(( Hey All,

You know... for the Witch Hunter "Accusation", it says "...select a single model in your opponent's army..."   It doesn't have to be a character-model.  You can accuse a unit-Standard Bearer.  Why bother with having him accuse models he'll never be able to see, get into melee with, or survive melee against, when he can actually beat up a 1-wound target?  Which... is an interesting way to get rid of enemy magic banners.  Just shoot him with your Witch Hunter.  If nothing else, as far as I know, you can't get unit-Standards back... at least Lore of Life and Lore of  Nehekhara specifically say you can't get those models back.

Unless I'm missing something about the Witch Hunter. 

So... it's not a great improvement, but... it is thinking outside the box for the Witch Hunter. ))

[Fidelis von Sigmaringen]

He could kill a standard bearer, but (BRB p. 94) "we assume that if the standard bearer is slain, another warrior will step forward to raise the fallen standard aloft. (...) This applies even if the standard bearer is the target of an effect that affects only a single model, such as a dangerous terrain test, or an attack made with the Sniper special rule. Another rank and file warrior is still assumed to pick up the banner. If the only other remaining model in the unit is the champion, the standard bearer must be removed as a casualty before him."


He could nominate a champion and kill him, though, but that would seem to be a waste of his abilities [except, perhaps, in the case of an Exalted Champion]. 

Edit: As the SB is always replaced, you could use the rule to increase his abilities against a whole unit - but that is rather WAAC.

[Sampson97]

Yknow I contemplated the use of a General or Arch Lector with Glittering Scales+Fencer'Blades+Talisman of preservation. Basically someone to absorb a few challenges and negate the amount that could be inflicted on a troop since most would generally miss the character I believe, with WS10 and -1 to hits against him in CC. Talisman just in case

[Noble Korhedron]

From a rules point of view, can characters only pick one item from any magic item section period, or could I have magical armour AND a  magical shield if I'm prepared to pay for it...?

@Fidelis: What about using the Witch Hunter in a 'fun' game, and picking your enemy's weakest character to send him after? Give him a decent ward save and let him try to sneak up on the enemy in Q. with a band of huntsmen or skirmishing archers?

[Jomppexx]

From a rules point of view, can characters only pick one item from any magic item section period, or could I have magical armour AND a  magical shield if I'm prepared to pay for it...?

You can only take one item from each category. So no magic armour and magic shield.

[Fidelis von Sigmaringen]

@Fidelis: What about using the Witch Hunter in a 'fun' game, and picking your enemy's weakest character to send him after? Give him a decent ward save and let him try to sneak up on the enemy in Q. with a band of huntsmen or skirmishing archers?

You could do that, but, again, it seems a waste of his abilities. We should not forget that WH can also have a psychological effect, and your target (certainly if weak in CC itself) may prefer to stay out of harms way.

[Jomppexx]

@Fidelis: What about using the Witch Hunter in a 'fun' game, and picking your enemy's weakest character to send him after? Give him a decent ward save and let him try to sneak up on the enemy in Q. with a band of huntsmen or skirmishing archers?

You could do that, but, again, it seems a waste of his abilities. We should not forget that WH can also have a psychological effect, and your target (certainly if weak in CC itself) may prefer to stay out of harms way.

Well it is a WITCH hunter, so maybe you should be hunting wizards with him.

[Fidelis von Sigmaringen]

Well, if you do want him in CC, it should  be against a Wizard, Undead or Daemon, as you will be able to the Tools of Judgement. Preferably a Wizard, as they tend to be weaker in CC.

[CarolineWellwater]

((jompexx ,

I'm not sure that's true. A shield is a shield... light/heavy armor is armor.  For example, one of the standard combos here is the Dragon Helm and Enchanted Shield.

Or, am I missing something?  Is it more one item per group or such? ))

[CarolineWellwater]

((Fidelis ,

Well... I don't see it as Win-at-all-cost. As you pointed out, someone else just picks up the banner.  It's really no different than if the Witch Hunter was shooting at the unit in general. It might go against the intent of the rule, whifh could be to use the Witch Hunter to attack enemy characters... but you could also have the in-game idea that the Witch Hunter is targeting unholy icons or something. ))

[Jomppexx]

((jompexx ,

I'm not sure that's true. A shield is a shield... light/heavy armor is armor.  For example, one of the standard combos here is the Dragon Helm and Enchanted Shield.

Or, am I missing something?  Is it more one item per group or such? ))

A character may choose one magic item of each type:
One magic weapon
One magic piece of armour
One talisman
One Arcane item (if a wizard)
One Enchanted Item

Of course you can take mundane items, like shields (non-magical) and armour (light, heavy, fullplate, chaos armour, etc.)

If the witch hunter marks the unit standard he has killing blow whenever fighting against the unit as long as you make sure that you attack the standard bearer.

[Fidelis von Sigmaringen]

To add BRB p. 500: "Magic items are divided into six categories: Magic Weapons, Magic Armour, Talismans, Enchanted Items, Arcane Items and Magic Standards. (...) A model can only ever choose one item from each category" - unless specified otherwise, of course.

The standard combos here are Dragonhelm and shield, normal armour (usually FP) and Enchanted Shield. 

[carmaul]

@Fidelis: What about using the Witch Hunter in a 'fun' game, and picking your enemy's weakest character to send him after? Give him a decent ward save and let him try to sneak up on the enemy in Q. with a band of huntsmen or skirmishing archers?

I believe that the Huntmen will lose their Scout ability if the Witch Hunter joins them.

((Fidelis ,

Well... I don't see it as Win-at-all-cost. As you pointed out, someone else just picks up the banner.  It's really no different than if the Witch Hunter was shooting at the unit in general. It might go against the intent of the rule, whifh could be to use the Witch Hunter to attack enemy characters... but you could also have the in-game idea that the Witch Hunter is targeting unholy icons or something. ))

I agree.  We ARE talking about an Empire Hero afterall.  Probably will only kill the SB once, maybe twice.  You have to be within 12" to even target it and with BS4, you aren't hitting automatically, and S4 AP, you won't wound every time.  If this was an Elf with BS6+, then i would have to say its WAAC because every shot would kill something and shooty elves somehow manage to avoid combat.

[Fidelis von Sigmaringen]

I believe that the Huntmen will lose their Scout ability if the Witch Hunter joins them.

They do, but they are still Skirmishers.

II agree.  We ARE talking about an Empire Hero afterall.  Probably will only kill the SB once, maybe twice.  You have to be within 12" to even target it and with BS4, you aren't hitting automatically, and S4 AP, you won't wound every time.  If this was an Elf with BS6+, then i would have to say its WAAC because every shot would kill something and shooty elves somehow manage to avoid combat.

I am not talking about the impact. The rules say the WH nominates a single model - once that model is dead, that is it. Here, a quirk in the rules would be used to circumvent the "single model" requirement.   

[CarolineWellwater]

(( Fidelis,

I can see that.  However, that's a fault of the rule-writing than my suggestion or interpretation.  I'm pretty sure I'm not the first person who noticed you didn't have to target a Lord or Hero model with how the rule is writen.

Overall, my understanding consensus is that the Witch Hunter was meant to hunt Characters, id est Heroes and Lords.  But, the rules for him just state "model"... if the rule stated "Lord or Hero", there would be no loophole.

Anyway, this brings up a question to me.  Magic Resistance says "...bonus to its ward saves when saving against damage cause by spells...".  So, if I have a unit with a Witch Hunter receive hits from "Flaming Cloak", "Shield of Thorns", or other augment-effects that cause wounds in combat, do you get the Ward Save against those?  -- My thought would be that the Magic Resistance does offer protection from these.

For that matter, if my unit has a Witch Hunter, and it receives wounds from an enemy unit Augmented with something like "Flaming Sword of Ruin" or "Enchanted Blades of Albian" where the effect makes the attacks magical, do you get a Ward Save from that? -- My thought is that in this case you could make the argument that the damage is being caused by the spell... which is rules-bendy.

What about if a creature's attacks are inherently magical... for example, from Hex Wraiths? Or Dwarven Runes where the effect makes the attack magical-- My thought is that the magic effect isn't spell damage, so you shouldn't get it.))

[Fidelis von Sigmaringen]

If you yourself admit that it is a loophole, do you really want to jump through?
 
Concerning MR:
MR will work against Flaming Cloak or Shield of Thorns. Why wouldn't it? The damage is caused by the spell.
However, MR will not work against spells like Enchanted Blades of Aiban - the damage is not caused by the spell.
And as you say yourself: MR works against damage caused by spells, not by magical attacks. Magical weapons etc. are not spells.