Topic: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .

[brr-icy]

KTG17 - have you considered the other 6th ed material? For example Storm of Chaos alternate army takes. Kislev supplement? Skaven hellpit armylist? Amazons? Undead cairn armylist?

Generally thesr bite size army lists from white dwarf are a lot of fun..,,

What is this hellpit list?

[Fidelis von Sigmaringen]

The Hell Pit Army List is a Clan Moulder Army list (Hell Pit being the Clan's  base) with emphasis on monstrous elements. It was published in WD 311 (Nov 2005) as a "Warhammer Chronicles" article.

[brr-icy]

Interesting,  i'll look that up. Moulder hasn't always been my strong clan lol

[KTG17]

Ladies and Gentlemen, you are in for a real treat!

So I got side-tracked with 40k. Went crazy buying up a final wishlist before I stop looking at modern 40k forever, but now I am back into WFB!

In that time I finished off purchasing the remaining 1000 point armies on my to-do list, and, just as many would predict, I went ahead and bought a few more models beyond my initial plan. So I went from a naive 700 point list for each race, got talked into expanding to 1000 point, then on my own picked up some odd 300 points or so for some of the armies. Some of this came about because I purchased some lots and just had some extras, others I went after just because I liked the model and thought it would be fun to build and paint.

So I am going to share my base 1000 point armies, and mention the other models I have to mix things up. These are all based on Ravening Hordes unless noted.  Enjoy!

********************************************************************************************************
Empire (Based on what came in the 6th Starter)
********************************************************************************************************

Captain (as my General) - 50
 + Sword of Might - 20
 + Light Armor - 2
 + Pistol - 7
 + Shield - 2
 + Warhorse - 10
 + Barding - 4
 + Talisman of Protection - 15

Captain - 50
 + Sword of Swift Slaying - 25
 + Light Armor - 2
 + Pistol - 7
 + Shield - 2
 + Warhorse - 10
 + Barding - 4

Battle Wizard - 60
 + Ring of Volans - 30
 + Power Stone - 20
 + Warhorse - 10

Knightly Order (5) - 120
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15

Spearmen (10) - 70
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Handgunners (10) - 80
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Swordmen(10) - 70
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Great Cannon - 100

Mortar - 80

*** Also *** I have a unit of Knights of the White Wolf (5) and a unit of Halberds (10).


********************************************************************************************************
Orcs (Based on what came in the 6th Starter)
********************************************************************************************************

Big Boss (General) - 65
 + Light Armor - 2
 + Shield - 2
 + Boar - 12
 + Rending Axe - 35

Shaman - 65
 + Badum Staff - 50

Big Boss - 65
 + Biting Blade - 10
 + Light Armor - 2
 + Shield - 2

Black Orcs (10) - 120
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Boyz (10) - 50
 + Extra Choppa - 20
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Boyz (10) - 50
 + Spears - 20
 + Shields - 10
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Arrer Boyz (10) - 50
 + Bows - 40
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Boar Boyz (5) - 85
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15

Chariot - 80


********************************************************************************************************
Dwarves (Based on what came in the 7th Starter)
********************************************************************************************************

Thane - 50
 + Heavy Armor - 4
 + Shield - 2
 + Pistol - 7
 + Axe of Cleaving - 50

Dragon Slayer - 90*
 + Additional Hand Weapon - 6

Warriors (10) - 70
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Miners (10) - 100
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Thunderers (10) - 120
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Longbeards (10) - 110
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Ironbreakers (10) - 110
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Dwarf Cannon - 100

*** Also *** I have a custom made Runesmith I am proud of. Maybe will use him one day. I am thinking about getting a Gyrocopter at some point.

* Also, I know the Dragon Slayer is officially part of a unit, he came as an individual in the set and just going to leave him as a character.


********************************************************************************************************
Goblins (Based on what came in the 7th Starter)
and I am really excited about these guys
********************************************************************************************************

Night Goblin Big Boss - 30
 + Bronze Axe - 50
 + Light Armor - 2

Night Goblin Big Boss - 30
 + Biting Blade - 10
 + Light Armor - 2

Shaman - 50
 + Badum Staff - 50

Night Goblins (20) - 40
 + Spears - 20
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Night Goblins (20) - 40
 + Spears - 20
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Night Goblins (20) - 40
 + Bows - 20
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Spider Riders (10) - 80 *
 + Spears - 20
 + Shields - 10
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

River Trolls (3) - 180 *

2 Bolt Throwers - 60

2 Goblin Chariots - 120

* I know the Spider Riders and River Trolls are RARE choices and an army this small is only allowed to have 1 choice, I love the Trolls and don't want any more Goblins. I originally had this list padded with Orcs, but decided to go all Goblin. Let me know if this breaks my army.


********************************************************************************************************
High Elves (Based on what came in the 8th Starter)
********************************************************************************************************

Commander - 65
 + Sword of Might - 20
 + Light Armor - 2
 + Shield - 2
 + Elven Steed - 12
 + Boarded Steed - 4

Commander - 65
 + Light Armor - 2
 + Shield - 2

Mage - 85
 + Crown of Saphery - 20

Spearmen (10) - 100
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Sea Guard (10) - 150
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Swordmasters (10) - 120
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Ellyrian Reavers (5) - 85
 + Spears - 5
 + Bows - 25
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15

Repeater Bolt Thrower - 100

*** Also *** I have the Prince on the Griffon but he is a Lord, as well as a unit of Silver Helms. I didn't need the Helms but I saw them on Ebay for what seemed like a good price and figured why not.


********************************************************************************************************
Skaven (Based on what came in the 8th Starter)
********************************************************************************************************

Chieftain - 50
 + Heavy Armor - 4
 + Weeping Blade - 50

Warlock Engineer - 60
 + Biting Blade - 10
 + Pistol - 7
 + Warpstone Armor - 40

Clanrats (20) - 120
 + Spears - 40
 + Shields - 20
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Clanrats (20) - 120
 + Shields - 20
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Stormvermin (20) - 140
 + Halberds - 40
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Beast Master - 10
Rat Ogres (2) - 80

Wind Mortar - 65 (Just using the Army book for this)

Fire Thrower - 24


*** Also *** I picked up a Doomwheel as I wanted something unique and are debating on picking up some Plague Monks. I thought about a Jazzail unit, but those models are kinda pricey... And I already have a couple of support teams.

I know it doesn't feel like I have enough Clanrats... But as it is I have to paint some 120 Skaven


********************************************************************************************************
Lizardmen (Based on what came in the Battalion set)
********************************************************************************************************

Saurus Hero - 100
 + Light Armor - 2
 + Shield - 2
 + Spear - 4
 + Cold One - 20

Saurus Hero - 100
 + Light Armor - 2
 + Shield - 2
 + Sword of Might - 20

Skink Shaman - 65

Cold Ones (5) - 110
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15

Saurus Warriors (10) - 120
 + Spears - 20
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Saurus Warriors (10) - 120
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Temple Guard (10) - 140
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Skink Skirmishers (5) - 20
 + Javelins and Shields - 15

*** Also *** I am working on a Skink Hero, I have a Serpent Swarm, and are seriously thinking of picking up one of the new Stegadons. I am not sure I will ever use it but its a great looking model. I know I have a lot of points in characters but its what I have.


********************************************************************************************************
Wood Elves (Based on what came in the Battalion set)
********************************************************************************************************

Commander - 65
 + Light Armor - 2
 + Shield - 2
 + Bow of Loren - 50

Mage - 75
 + Talsman of Protection

Glade Riders (5) - 95
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15

Glade Guard (10) - 80
 + Shields - 10
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Archers (10) - 120
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Dryads (5) - 155

Dryads (5) - 155

Scouts (5) - 70

*** Also *** recently picked up a plastic Treeman. Not sure I will ever use it... seems pretty powerful for small games, but I loved the model.


********************************************************************************************************
Chaos Warriors (Based on what came in the Battalion set)
********************************************************************************************************

Aspiring Champion - 70
 + Chaos Armor - 8
 + Shield - 2
 + Chaos Tomb Blade - 50

Sorcerer - 80

Marauder Cheiftain - 45
 + Biting Blade - 10
 + Shield - 2

Chaos Knights (5) - 155
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15

Chaos Warriors (10) - 110
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Marauders (10) - 40
 + Shields - 10
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Marauders (10) - 40
 + Flails- 20
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Chaos Hounds (10) - 120
 
Chaos Chariot - 100

*** Also *** I do have a version of my Marauder Cheiftain that is mounted, so I might change the magic stuff around to field it. I thought for small games it would be neat to have a put Marauder warband, so I got extra bits to make him.


********************************************************************************************************
Daemon Host (Based on what came in the Battalion set)
********************************************************************************************************

I have to be honest here I am still working on this.


********************************************************************************************************
Brettonians (Based on what came in the Battalion set)
********************************************************************************************************

Paladin - 70
 + Heavy Armor - 4
 + Shield - 2
 + Pegasus - 50
 + Lance - 4

Wizard - 60
 + Talisman of Protection - 15

Knights of the Realm (6) - 162
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15

Man-at-Arms (10) - 30
 + Halberds - 20
 + Light Armor - 10
 + Shields - 10
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Man-at-Arms (10) - 30
 + Halberds - 20
 + Light Armor - 10
 + Shields - 10
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Bowmen (10) - 80
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Bowmen (10) - 80
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Squires (5) - 20
 + Spears - 5
 + Bows - 20
 + Shields - 10
 + Warhorses - 35
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15

*** Not quite 1000 points as I have a few extra models and bits and was going to try and include a Paladin on foot. If not will have to go a little more crazy with some magic items. I know I am supposed to have 10 Squires, but just getting the 5 that I got was pricey enough. I really like the squires though I hope to post pics of what I did with them soon. And yes, I did have to buy additional Bretonnian bits to make the complete units that I did.


********************************************************************************************************
Beastmen (Based on what came in the Battalion set)
********************************************************************************************************

Chieftain - 60
 + Armor of Bones - 30


Shaman - 75
 + Talisman of Protection - 15

Beastigors (10) - 110
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Gors (10) - 50
 + Additional Hand Weapon - 20
 + Light Armor - 10
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Gors (10) - 50
 + Light Armor - 10
 + Shields - 10
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Ungors (10) - 30
 + Spears - 20
 + Shields - 10
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Minotaurs (3) - 135
 + Light Armor - 9
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15

Chaos Hounds (10) - 120

Beastmen Chariot - 70

*** The Beastmen Chariot I literally just found in a game store in North Carolina while I was on vaca and I got it for $27! I was pretty surprised. Before I had this I was overloading up on magic items. Really excited to have it.


********************************************************************************************************
Dark Elves (Based on what came in the Battalion set)
********************************************************************************************************

Commander - 65
 + Heavy Armor - 4
 + Shield - 2
 + Biting Blade - 10

Sorcerer - 95
 + Talisman of Protection - 15

Cold One Knights (5) - 140
 + Lances - 10
 + Light Armor - 9
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15

Corsairs (10) - 100
 + Additional Hand Weapon - 20
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Corsairs (10) - 100
 + Repeater Crossbows - 50
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Warriors (10) - 70
 + Repeater Crossbows - 50
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Warriors (10) - 70
 + Spears - 20
 + Shields - 10
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

*** Also *** I have the Corsair Commander figure as well as the Dark Elf Repeater Bolt Thrower. I love having an artillery piece so will prob move some things around to include it in my army.


********************************************************************************************************
Vampire Counts (Based on what came in the Battalion set)
********************************************************************************************************

Vampire Thrall - 70
 + Heavy Armor - 4
 + Biting Blade - 10
 + Ring of Barrows - 45

Necromancer - 65
 + Talisman of Protection - 15

Wight Cavalry (5) - 100
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Grave Guard (10) - 110
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Skeleton Warriors (20) - 140
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Zombies (20) - 100

Crypt Ghouls (10) - 90

Bat Swarm - 50

Dire Wolves (10) - 110

*** Also *** got the Black Coach!

I was told that Skeletons and Zombies should really be in units of at least 20 even though I prefer to keep units to their minimum. Let me know what you think about that.


********************************************************************************************************
Tomb Kings (Based on what came in the 8th Edition Battalion set)
********************************************************************************************************

Tomb Lord - 95
 + Bow - 8
 + Light Armor - 2
 + Shield - 2

Liche Priest - 45
 + Some scrolls....

Skeleton Cavalry (5) - 100
 + Spears - 5
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15

Skeleton Warriors (20) - 120
 + Light Armor - 20
 + Shields - 10
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Skeleton Warriors (10) - 60
 + Bows - 30
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Tomb Guard (10) - 110
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Skeleton Charioteers (3) - 150
 + Bows - 12
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15


Was thinking about hunting down a Screaming Catapult...


********************************************************************************************************
Ogre Kingdoms (Based on what came in the 8th Edition Battalion set)
********************************************************************************************************

NOTE! I am using the Army Book points for the models, but the RH point costs for the Champions, Standards, and Musicians. Just seemed better to keep things consistent.

Bruiser - 130
 + Heavy Armor - 4
 + Additional Hand Weapon - 8
 
Leadbelchers (3) - 165
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Ironguts (3) - 144
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Ironguts (3) - 144
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Bulls (3) - 105
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Bulls (3) - 105
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Hobgoblins (20) - 40

*** Also *** have 20 more Hobgoblins.



Ok thats it what do you all think?

[GamesPoet]

I'm thinking you're moving full speed ahead!

[Warlord]

Not enough infantry models in your empire list - too much points on mounted captains. Empire infantry are horde infantry meaning you need bigger units than 10 models to be useful. 16 in 4x4 at a minimum, 20 is better. Especially fighting clanrats and skeletons, or enemy elite units that also have 10 models.

Otherwise I like where most of the way the rest of the armies are progressing!

[Fidelis von Sigmaringen]

What Warlord says. Also: give your Wizard the Rod of Power instead. That was one of our best items.

[GamesPoet]

More Empire infantry could be good!

[KTG17]

Thanks for all your input! I will look into that rod.

The thing about the units of 10... I know if I were playing any kind of serious gamer my empire army would get crushed, but keep in mind I am I am trying to do 3 things: (1) Have some variety and (2) keep the costs down. The great thing about not pursuing a 2000 point Empire army for example and only get a 1000 point one, is that it free's up cash to buy another 1000 army from another race. Granted I have gone over that 1000 point amount here and there, but that has usually been due to the model itself and not what it does for the army. The (3) is also... man I don't have a lot of time. And I am REALLY eclectic. Just imagine what I have done here with WFB in the last couple of years and throw in half a dozen other interests. I am really all over the place. So if I go crazy, I will never get many of these models painted let alone built.

Also, I am putting a lot of effort in giving each model its own character as much as I can. Like my rank and file Empire guys rarely share the same head.

Also, most of my starters, as well as the additional box sets that I have bought, usually come with a minimum of 10 guys. I have been thinking about the mobs of 20 Skaven... the Island of Blood came with 2 units of Elves who were in units of 10, against those two units of 20 Clanrats... so that is why I assumed 10 all around would be an okay number. I never though the Empire was a horde army, like Skaven or Undead would be. I also can't imagine fielding a unit of only 10 Clanrats either. That doesn't seem right.

Also, I do have a lot of points in some of the army's characters, I know that. That is usually due to what models I have.

A couple of more things.... I have started looking a Siege. Has anyone ever played a game using a fortress? Was it fun? I prefer battles involving movement and I am not sure how exciting a castle would be.

And when I wrote my army lists above, I had purchased the Skaven Doomwheel but hadn't received it yet. Well I got it. And I love it. I swear GW was making some amazing models in the last couple editions of WFB. I wasn't at all impressed with the original Doomwheel.

[Fidelis von Sigmaringen]

Well, you could use the Spearmen as proxies for the Halberdiers (or vice versa). That would give you a 20-strong unit, that would also allow you to use the Swordsmen and/or Handgunners as Detachments.

[KTG17]

How would a 10 man Empire unit match up against:

10 Skaven Clan Rats (as opposed to 20)
or
10 Skeletons
?

Oh, BTW, I did pick up a Dwarf Gyrocopter. Then I read the rules. It seems kind of useless. But I needed something of a rare choice.

Oh part 2, I made a mistake in my Dwarves army list. I don't have Longbeards, I have Hammerers. I like the Longbeard models better tho, but they come with Great Axes and RH says not so fast its hand weapons and shields, and I believe that option isnt included in the set. I guess the Hammerer models are different though.

[Fidelis von Sigmaringen]

Well, I will not crunch the numbers, but the Clanrats have two major advantages: M5 and I4. In the 6th edition, the attacker strikes first and there is no step-up. Any model you kill first means less attacks against you. With I4, the Clanrats will strike before Halberdiers & Swordsmen, and simultaneously with the Swordsmen. However, M5 makes it more likely that the Clanrats will be able to attack and thus strike first in the first round of CC against Swordsmen too.
The Skeletons have one big advantage: Fear. In the 6th, Fear was far more powerful than in the 8th edition.
That is why in the 6th (and 7th) edition, Swordsmen were the superior choice, since they had WS4, I4, and a 4+ AS. You'd stiil want at least 20 of them, though.

[KTG17]

Ahh... I missed those stats on the Swordsman. I just assumed they were the same as everyone else. I can see why peeps like them. Well, they are a core part of my army now!

That being said, I know you want me to play in big blocks, but I don't ever see me and my friends ever playing competitively. I like units of 10 for basic infantry, 5 for cavalry, as I seem to buy them in those numbers most of the time, so I will prob just keep it that way. And I am okay with a strong unit of 10 guys overwhelming a unit of weaker 10 guys. That makes sense and means a player should rely on tactics and supporting fire to help out as opposed to just rank bonuses. I know in some armies, like Goblins, you just have to go with 20 (not just because of the rules, but they are just poor fighters), but does this mean I should consider using units of 10 for Skaven, Skeletons, and Zombies as well? I guess if I use RH as a guide, if I just go with the minimum for each unit, I should still be somewhat balanced.

I am not sure I have all the command models I need if I went that route tho...

[Warlord]

To my mind, if you are curating the collections, you are creating the meta on which armies will dominate all games. This is basically about giving everyone a fair chance to win with any army using the units in the army provided, and tactics and luck. And that is the basis of your players having a fun time. Just a fair chance.

Firstly, let's address your measure of '5 for cav, 10 for infantry'.

I think you need to differentiate between basic infantry and elite infantry. Elite infantry at unit size 10 is fine. Basic, or 'horde' infantry you should be looking at 16-20, even up to 24 size.

10 'basic' infantry in most cases means cavalry and elite infantry will slaughter them almost every time. 10 for basic infantry means they are chaff (disposable) - but if all you have is chaff you won't ever win a battle.

You asked to compare 10 empire troops vs 10 clanrats - that fight has a fair chance to go either way. Just as 20 vs 20 of the same type. But what about 10 empire troops vs 10 black orcs, or 10 clanrats vs 10 chaos warriors. Elite infantry will pretty much win every time.
That's where you need to differentiate between elite infantry numbers and basic / horde infantry numbers.

I know you don't see empire troops as a 'horde', but the troop cost aligns to that...

I understand budget constraints and time will make this a challenge, and a lot of your army mixes and units are not far off anyway.
If you have the 6th ed starter box, I think that came with 16 spearmen and 16 handgunners and a command sprue?
The extra 10 halberds will help, but if you can even arrange for them to be units of 12 or 15 or 16 instead of 10, I think it will help.

Anyway, I will give my quick view on fair unit sizes for the armies you have listed below. I am not talking uber competitive or optimised, just a general range on what would produce a fair fight.

-----------

Regardless, some of your other points:

Gyrocopter's purpose is to slow enemy advance by March Blocking, allowing more time for shooting.
In that way, it's a good distraction for the enemy.
Which model did you get? The new plastic one, or the older metal one?

Longbeards and Hammerers are both good elites. I wouldn't worry about axes, because there is no 'axe' rule. Either Hand Weapon or Great Weapon. Also, in 7th edition GW phased out the Longbeard models, so just more fancier warriors would be fine for models. That said, you have hammerer models. They are great.

I have not played Siege, but I think it generally suits some armies better than others. Could be fun for you and your friends though.

Like you say, the 'new' doomwheel is great. The old one was.... not.

I would love to see a photo of your Runesmith.

Next post will be my high level feedback.

[Warlord]

Ladies and Gentlemen, you are in for a real treat!

Yes it is. I love that you shared this.

********************************************************************************************************
Empire (Based on what came in the 6th Starter)
********************************************************************************************************

Captain (as my General) - 50
 + Sword of Might - 20
 + Light Armor - 2
 + Pistol - 7
 + Shield - 2
 + Warhorse - 10
 + Barding - 4
 + Talisman of Protection - 15

Captain - 50
 + Sword of Swift Slaying - 25
 + Light Armor - 2
 + Pistol - 7
 + Shield - 2
 + Warhorse - 10
 + Barding - 4

Battle Wizard - 60
 + Ring of Volans - 30
 + Power Stone - 20
 + Warhorse - 10

Knightly Order (5) - 120
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15

Spearmen (10) - 70
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Handgunners (10) - 80
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Swordmen(10) - 70
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Great Cannon - 100

Mortar - 80

*** Also *** I have a unit of Knights of the White Wolf (5) and a unit of Halberds (10).


Knights of the White Wolf are a great pick here.
Again, combining the halberds into the spearmen unit would be my suggestion to make a unit of 20 spearmen
Greatswords would be a great pick though, but 5th, 6th, 7th ed versions are all quite expensive. Great models though.

If you could get some of the more exotic units from Ravening Hordes for these guys, could be a bit of fun, like Flagellants, Reiksguard foot or Halflings, will make them standout from the Bretonnians.



********************************************************************************************************
Orcs (Based on what came in the 6th Starter)
********************************************************************************************************

Big Boss (General) - 65
 + Light Armor - 2
 + Shield - 2
 + Boar - 12
 + Rending Axe - 35

Shaman - 65
 + Badum Staff - 50

Big Boss - 65
 + Biting Blade - 10
 + Light Armor - 2
 + Shield - 2

Black Orcs (10) - 120
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Boyz (10) - 50
 + Extra Choppa - 20
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Boyz (10) - 50
 + Spears - 20
 + Shields - 10
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Arrer Boyz (10) - 50
 + Bows - 40
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Boar Boyz (5) - 85
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15

Chariot - 80


The 2 units of boyz are fine as units of 10, or could combine into a unit of 20. Mixed weapons look in a unit of Orcs is fine.

Some Savage Orcs might make the army more visually interesting and fun, but again, could be expensive - the 6th ed and 7th ed models were not cheap. Both great sets though. You could always paint the Boyz with 2 hand weapons as savages, with the war paint and that could work too.

A Giant could look good here too.
Or you could even use Ogres here too as the Rare choice if they are not going up against them.


********************************************************************************************************
Dwarves (Based on what came in the 7th Starter)
********************************************************************************************************

Thane - 50
 + Heavy Armor - 4
 + Shield - 2
 + Pistol - 7
 + Axe of Cleaving - 50

Dragon Slayer - 90*
 + Additional Hand Weapon - 6

Warriors (10) - 70
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Miners (10) - 100
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Thunderers (10) - 120
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Longbeards (10) - 110
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Ironbreakers (10) - 110
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Dwarf Cannon - 100

*** Also *** I have a custom made Runesmith I am proud of. Maybe will use him one day. I am thinking about getting a Gyrocopter at some point.

* Also, I know the Dragon Slayer is officially part of a unit, he came as an individual in the set and just going to leave him as a character.



I think the Slayer as a character is fine. In the armybook, they do that anyway.


********************************************************************************************************
Goblins (Based on what came in the 7th Starter)
and I am really excited about these guys
********************************************************************************************************

Night Goblin Big Boss - 30
 + Bronze Axe - 50
 + Light Armor - 2

Night Goblin Big Boss - 30
 + Biting Blade - 10
 + Light Armor - 2

Shaman - 50
 + Badum Staff - 50

Night Goblins (20) - 40
 + Spears - 20
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Night Goblins (20) - 40
 + Spears - 20
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Night Goblins (20) - 40
 + Bows - 20
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Spider Riders (10) - 80 *
 + Spears - 20
 + Shields - 10
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

River Trolls (3) - 180 *

2 Bolt Throwers - 60

2 Goblin Chariots - 120

* I know the Spider Riders and River Trolls are RARE choices and an army this small is only allowed to have 1 choice, I love the Trolls and don't want any more Goblins. I originally had this list padded with Orcs, but decided to go all Goblin. Let me know if this breaks my army.


I think this army is fairly strong actually. Its good. Consider some fanatics for some extra craziness. Goblins are an army that is supposed to make your laugh.



********************************************************************************************************
High Elves (Based on what came in the 8th Starter)
********************************************************************************************************

Commander - 65
 + Sword of Might - 20
 + Light Armor - 2
 + Shield - 2
 + Elven Steed - 12
 + Boarded Steed - 4

Commander - 65
 + Light Armor - 2
 + Shield - 2

Mage - 85
 + Crown of Saphery - 20

Spearmen (10) - 100
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Sea Guard (10) - 150
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Swordmasters (10) - 120
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Ellyrian Reavers (5) - 85
 + Spears - 5
 + Bows - 25
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15

Repeater Bolt Thrower - 100

*** Also *** I have the Prince on the Griffon but he is a Lord, as well as a unit of Silver Helms. I didn't need the Helms but I saw them on Ebay for what seemed like a good price and figured why not.


I think Silver Helms balance this army. Some Archers would be great, but Sea Guard can do that I guess.



********************************************************************************************************
Skaven (Based on what came in the 8th Starter)
********************************************************************************************************

Chieftain - 50
 + Heavy Armor - 4
 + Weeping Blade - 50

Warlock Engineer - 60
 + Biting Blade - 10
 + Pistol - 7
 + Warpstone Armor - 40

Clanrats (20) - 120
 + Spears - 40
 + Shields - 20
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Clanrats (20) - 120
 + Shields - 20
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Stormvermin (20) - 140
 + Halberds - 40
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Beast Master - 10
Rat Ogres (2) - 80

Wind Mortar - 65 (Just using the Army book for this)

Fire Thrower - 24


*** Also *** I picked up a Doomwheel as I wanted something unique and are debating on picking up some Plague Monks. I thought about a Jazzail unit, but those models are kinda pricey... And I already have a couple of support teams.

I know it doesn't feel like I have enough Clanrats... But as it is I have to paint some 120 Skaven


It’s a solid army, especially with the addition of the Doomwheel.
I personally hate skaven, but consider if you want a unit of 20 slaves in there too for chaff, or some skirmishers to do something different.



********************************************************************************************************
Lizardmen (Based on what came in the Battalion set)
********************************************************************************************************

Saurus Hero - 100
 + Light Armor - 2
 + Shield - 2
 + Spear - 4
 + Cold One - 20

Saurus Hero - 100
 + Light Armor - 2
 + Shield - 2
 + Sword of Might - 20

Skink Shaman - 65

Cold Ones (5) - 110
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15

Saurus Warriors (10) - 120
 + Spears - 20
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Saurus Warriors (10) - 120
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Temple Guard (10) - 140
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Skink Skirmishers (5) - 20
 + Javelins and Shields - 15

*** Also *** I am working on a Skink Hero, I have a Serpent Swarm, and are seriously thinking of picking up one of the new Stegadons. I am not sure I will ever use it but its a great looking model. I know I have a lot of points in characters but its what I have.


I feel like you need more Skinks in this army. Stegadon would be great.



********************************************************************************************************
Wood Elves (Based on what came in the Battalion set)
********************************************************************************************************

Commander - 65
 + Light Armor - 2
 + Shield - 2
 + Bow of Loren - 50

Mage - 75
 + Talsman of Protection

Glade Riders (5) - 95
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15

Glade Guard (10) - 80
 + Shields - 10
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Archers (10) - 120
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Dryads (5) - 155

Dryads (5) - 155

Scouts (5) - 70

*** Also *** recently picked up a plastic Treeman. Not sure I will ever use it... seems pretty powerful for small games, but I loved the model.


I think this army is lacking. The Treeman may seem powerful, but that’s what cannons or heroes are for. Don't shy away from it, its kinda the only thing that will give this army a chance for a player who doesn't know how to play avoidance.
Wardancers are a lot of fun too though as an option



********************************************************************************************************
Chaos Warriors (Based on what came in the Battalion set)
********************************************************************************************************

Aspiring Champion - 70
 + Chaos Armor - 8
 + Shield - 2
 + Chaos Tomb Blade - 50

Sorcerer - 80

Marauder Cheiftain - 45
 + Biting Blade - 10
 + Shield - 2

Chaos Knights (5) - 155
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15

Chaos Warriors (10) - 110
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Marauders (10) - 40
 + Shields - 10
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Marauders (10) - 40
 + Flails- 20
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Chaos Hounds (10) - 120
 
Chaos Chariot - 100

*** Also *** I do have a version of my Marauder Cheiftain that is mounted, so I might change the magic stuff around to field it. I thought for small games it would be neat to have a put Marauder warband, so I got extra bits to make him.


Marauder Cavalry would make this well rounded, and the box set is great. Consider it.




********************************************************************************************************
Daemon Host (Based on what came in the Battalion set)
********************************************************************************************************

I have to be honest here I am still working on this.


I'm not great with Demons either.


********************************************************************************************************
Brettonians (Based on what came in the Battalion set)
********************************************************************************************************

Paladin - 70
 + Heavy Armor - 4
 + Shield - 2
 + Pegasus - 50
 + Lance - 4

Wizard - 60
 + Talisman of Protection - 15

Knights of the Realm (6) - 162
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15

Man-at-Arms (10) - 30
 + Halberds - 20
 + Light Armor - 10
 + Shields - 10
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Man-at-Arms (10) - 30
 + Halberds - 20
 + Light Armor - 10
 + Shields - 10
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Bowmen (10) - 80
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Bowmen (10) - 80
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Squires (5) - 20
 + Spears - 5
 + Bows - 20
 + Shields - 10
 + Warhorses - 35
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15

*** Not quite 1000 points as I have a few extra models and bits and was going to try and include a Paladin on foot. If not will have to go a little more crazy with some magic items. I know I am supposed to have 10 Squires, but just getting the 5 that I got was pricey enough. I really like the squires though I hope to post pics of what I did with them soon. And yes, I did have to buy additional Bretonnian bits to make the complete units that I did.


Need more knights.
You need to differentiate between the human armies, and Bretonnians should be full of knights.
The Men-at-Arms suffer from the same problem as the Empire troops - combine the 2 units of 10 into 1 of 20.
And get at least 1 more unit of knights.
I wouldn't worry about the Squires thing - they are 10+ because they simplified the rules to cover them as foot skirmishers too. 5 is fine.
Don't forget to get more knights. Old 5th ed knights should be easy to track down? Can be a lot of fun to convert them as Questing or Grail Knights.
I am excited you got the Paladin on Pegasus. A lot of fun there.




********************************************************************************************************
Beastmen (Based on what came in the Battalion set)
********************************************************************************************************

Chieftain - 60
 + Armor of Bones - 30


Shaman - 75
 + Talisman of Protection - 15

Beastigors (10) - 110
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Gors (10) - 50
 + Additional Hand Weapon - 20
 + Light Armor - 10
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Gors (10) - 50
 + Light Armor - 10
 + Shields - 10
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Ungors (10) - 30
 + Spears - 20
 + Shields - 10
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Minotaurs (3) - 135
 + Light Armor - 9
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15

Chaos Hounds (10) - 120

Beastmen Chariot - 70

*** The Beastmen Chariot I literally just found in a game store in North Carolina while I was on vaca and I got it for $27! I was pretty surprised. Before I had this I was overloading up on magic items. Really excited to have it.


The Gors would be the same advice as I had for the Orc Boyz. Fine separate, or as 1 unit of 20 with 'mixed weapons' to be whichever option you like.
Don't forget, you can borrow the Chaos Hounds in this army too.
I think the Ungors need to be bigger, but I think they can be expensive to buy nowadays.

[Warlord]

********************************************************************************************************
Dark Elves (Based on what came in the Battalion set)
********************************************************************************************************

Commander - 65
 + Heavy Armor - 4
 + Shield - 2
 + Biting Blade - 10

Sorcerer - 95
 + Talisman of Protection - 15

Cold One Knights (5) - 140
 + Lances - 10
 + Light Armor - 9
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15

Corsairs (10) - 100
 + Additional Hand Weapon - 20
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Corsairs (10) - 100
 + Repeater Crossbows - 50
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Warriors (10) - 70
 + Repeater Crossbows - 50
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Warriors (10) - 70
 + Spears - 20
 + Shields - 10
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

*** Also *** I have the Corsair Commander figure as well as the Dark Elf Repeater Bolt Thrower. I love having an artillery piece so will prob move some things around to include it in my army.


Is that the commander with the squid helmet? I never got him. Cool figure.
Get that Repeater.



********************************************************************************************************
Vampire Counts (Based on what came in the Battalion set)
********************************************************************************************************

Vampire Thrall - 70
 + Heavy Armor - 4
 + Biting Blade - 10
 + Ring of Barrows - 45

Necromancer - 65
 + Talisman of Protection - 15

Wight Cavalry (5) - 100
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Grave Guard (10) - 110
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Skeleton Warriors (20) - 140
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Zombies (20) - 100

Crypt Ghouls (10) - 90

Bat Swarm - 50

Dire Wolves (10) - 110

*** Also *** got the Black Coach!

I was told that Skeletons and Zombies should really be in units of at least 20 even though I prefer to keep units to their minimum. Let me know what you think about that.


Units of 20 for both of those is appropriate.
Black Coach will be fun. Great mix of units.



********************************************************************************************************
Tomb Kings (Based on what came in the 8th Edition Battalion set)
********************************************************************************************************

Tomb Lord - 95
 + Bow - 8
 + Light Armor - 2
 + Shield - 2

Liche Priest - 45
 + Some scrolls....

Skeleton Cavalry (5) - 100
 + Spears - 5
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15

Skeleton Warriors (20) - 120
 + Light Armor - 20
 + Shields - 10
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Skeleton Warriors (10) - 60
 + Bows - 30
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Tomb Guard (10) - 110
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Skeleton Charioteers (3) - 150
 + Bows - 12
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15


Was thinking about hunting down a Screaming Catapult...


Also a great mix of units. Catapult would be the final touch.



********************************************************************************************************
Ogre Kingdoms (Based on what came in the 8th Edition Battalion set)
********************************************************************************************************

NOTE! I am using the Army Book points for the models, but the RH point costs for the Champions, Standards, and Musicians. Just seemed better to keep things consistent.

Bruiser - 130
 + Heavy Armor - 4
 + Additional Hand Weapon - 8
 
Leadbelchers (3) - 165
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Ironguts (3) - 144
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Ironguts (3) - 144
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Bulls (3) - 105
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Bulls (3) - 105
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Hobgoblins (20) - 40

*** Also *** have 20 more Hobgoblins.


I assume you mean Gnoblars, not Hobgoblins?
This is fine. They will do well against most of these armies. A ScrapLauncher is a lot of fun too.

Ok thats it what do you all think?

I think you are missing a Chaos Dwarf army!

Can be expensive, or can be a lot of fun conversions….

And perhaps a Dogs of War army?

No pressure! 

[KTG17]

Thanks for all the feedback, I am appreciating it.

I guess I should point out that the 7th and 8th starter sets pretty much had the biggest influences on me on how I set out to do this. In those sets, the Dwarves and Elves were in units of 10 for infantry and in the case of the Elves, their cavalry in a unit of 5. The Goblins and Skaven units were twice that, so I assumed that was because they were lesser units.

The contents of the 6th edition kind of left me confused, and I just assumed they came in the numbers they did because of how GW put the figures on sprues at the time. And since I got all of the starters at once, I thought I would sort of unify the strategy and just model the Empire and Ork armies on how the other armies were packaged. And the best part, since I was sure of my plan, I sold off my empire extras to buy other stuff. 

Even still, I don't have a problem of 10 elite troops wiping the floor with 10 basic troops. I assume that other things would happen though, like these units having to cross ground which might be covered with ranged weapons for example. All this is theoretical though, I know. I am still digesting the rules as I have time (I took on magic the other day and wow a lot of dice rolling for little result).

I guess if I am going to stick to the minimum unit size for the Empire, I probably should do that for everyone. I didn't realize the Clanrats were as good as they were. I just assumed since they came in a block of 20 in the 8th set, which looks great to me, up against units of 10 for Elves, that that seemed to be the right number to use against everyone. Ravening Hordes has them coming in units of 10 and maybe that is where I should keep them. Which means I now need more command models! 

Since I am playing small games, I think smaller unit sizes means more options on the table. I dont want to sink a lot of points into a few formations and it just becomes moving everyone to the center of the board and rolling dice.

As far as the Gyrocopter... I got the metal one. I didn't know there was a plastic one. Crap I would have bought a plastic one if I knew it existed. The metal one looks really wimpy.

[Warlord]

No problem! I love the scale of what you are trying to do.
I did that, and didn't stop.
But I also didn't collect everything. I don't have Bretonnians, Lizardmen, Skaven or Demons. But I have the rest.

Ultimately my main feedback is on the human armies, 1 for you to differentiate them, and 2, to ensure the combat infantry is treated the same as clanrats, skeletons and goblins, because their capabilities aren't that different. What 8th ed setup for you was right. The elites should be 10, and the basics should be 20. That way either side can win. And each army you are building will have options and strategies for crossing the field under fire or flanking, or bait and flee. Don't have the human armies be the un-fun ones because they start off at such a disadvantage.

The other feedback, is if you have a few extra models in places, consider not putting full command on every unit. Sometimes not even any command at all. it will save you points to field all your models, and some units don't benefit from the extra cost - especially missile troops, but especially the human missile troops of 10 models, and also the Elven missile troops too. Dwarves can handle themselves, Orcs and Goblins should be running forward and shooting and getting stuck in, so its fine for them.

Regarding selling off, I think with some swaps, like adding the halberds to the spearmen, and combining the 2 men at arms units, you get there.
I know you don't seem to mind elites beating basics, but its more that once those human basics are gone, there isn't anything left. Everyone expects humans to die to elites regardless, you just want them to put up a little bit of a fight in the process, and that's all adding the extra numbers does.

Sorry to keep harping on.

I really don't think you should drop basics down to 10 models.

Keep in mind that games, even at 1000 points can take a while to play. Like you say about magic, a lot of rolling for little effect.
I think mostly your mix of units would mean a decent game at a casual pace with a beer could take about 2 hours, maybe more or less depending on how luck shines on you.

No, the metal Gyrocopter is cool. I just always had trouble keeping it stuck together. I sold it when they announced the plastic one, and then for quite a while I didn't like the look of the plastic one. I need to buy one one of these days.

[Fidelis von Sigmaringen]

On a side note: you could use unit fillers to enlarge your units without (too much of an) extra cost.

[KTG17]

If you could get some of the more exotic units from Ravening Hordes for these guys, could be a bit of fun, like Flagellants, Reiksguard foot or Halflings, will make them standout from the Bretonnians.

Did they make plastic Reiksguard on foot?

Some Savage Orcs might make the army more visually interesting and fun, but again, could be expensive - the 6th ed and 7th ed models were not cheap.

I like the Savage Ork models but I thought it should be either I go all savage, or not at all...

I think this army is fairly strong actually. Its good. Consider some fanatics for some extra craziness. Goblins are an army that is supposed to make your laugh.

There seems to be an extra layer of rules for these guys and that kind of intimidates me with a system with already having a ton of rules. Will look into them. I do like the plastic models I might as well buy a couple.......

I feel like you need more Skinks in this army. Stegadon would be great.

Well, I got all those Saurus models in the Battalion set, so I would prefer to use up all of them if I can.

I think this army is lacking. The Treeman may seem powerful, but that’s what cannons or heroes are for. Don't shy away from it, its kinda the only thing that will give this army a chance for a player who doesn't know how to play avoidance.

Yeah I agree on the lacking part. I have what I have from the Battalion set. I looked weak to me but I thought maybe things were in the rules that would make them shine through. Will tinker with it.

Need more knights.

Well they are pricey! And if I include more, then I have to give up another unit that I paid big $$$ for lol. I am kinda stuck at the moment.

Is that the commander with the squid helmet? I never got him. Cool figure.

No, I went a cheaper route and bought extra random Dark Elf bits to make one. I will post pics when I get to him. To be honest, Dark Elves are a long way off on my list of things to do.

Units of 20 for both of those is appropriate.

But should I be doing 10 now??? Since I am going RH minimums?

I assume you mean Gnoblars, not Hobgoblins?

Yes, sorry.

And yes! I plan to do Chaos Dwarves. I was all set to buy some on eBay, but the key unit I wanted was being sold in a lot, and I lost the auction and the excitement. Will get around to them some day. I have a army list. Will share it and see what you think soon.

[KTG17]

Quick question:

After going back and forth on it, I have decided to base all of chariots with chariot bases, rather than using just bases for the horses. This is a little difficult for me as not all of the models came with them, and they are hard to find now. The Black Coach tho, is pretty big, and is actually too big for the normal chariot base. I thought about jerry-rigging a chariot base with another base and filling and sanding the gaps to make it look nice, but then I thought why not use a monster base? Would this be ok? I saw somewhere a sheet that included all of the base sizes for all units in Warhammer at the time, but I don't know if the Black Coach was assigned to one back then. I know my model didnt come with one and I got is sealed. What do you think? Does it matter?

[Fidelis von Sigmaringen]

The 6th edition Black Coach did not come with a base for the actual chariot, but the base size of the chariot itself should be 50x100mm (or for chariot+mounts 100x150mm).

[KTG17]

Ok thanks I can jerry-rig one then. Prob for the best. The monster base is awfully wide. Too wide.

[Fidelis von Sigmaringen]

Uh, yes, my mistake that should be 50x150mm.

[Warlord]

The 6th edition Black Coach did not come with a base for the actual chariot, but the base size of the chariot itself should be 50x100mm (or for chariot+mounts 100x150mm).

I think you should use a chariot base, and you will need to cut the horses off their slotta bits to make it all fit. If you keep them in their slotta’s, you will need a monster base and another cavalry base to get all 4 wheels on a base. The black coach is LONG.