Topic: Is Fantasy Back - Everything comes round again. Even squares

[S.O.F]

The ice crystals continue to be a concern.

[Victor]

By the way, we're way off topic, ...

That's not a big deal I think, as there is nothing else here thus far to get excited about. If GW had announced German-Renaissance-esque mounted crossbowmen instead of AOS-esque bear cavalry with attached magic ice crystals, this might be different.

I think it's becoming clear, that this will not be 'The Old World', but 'The New Old World' - bigger, faster, more fantasy, more magic. But to be fair, this started with 7th edition already and the trend continues. There is no smiley here to express my feelings about this.

[GamesPoet]

 

It looks like the bears might all be in the same pose, yet without interchangeable heads and stuff.  Although why in the world would a large bear like that need antlers, tusks, or those horrible looking eye covers? Well at least the eye covers may keep out stray arrows, maybe.

[Naitsabes]

I think it's becoming clear, that this will not be 'The Old World', but 'The New Old World' - bigger, faster, more fantasy, more magic. But to be fair, this started with 7th edition already and the trend continues. There is no smiley here to express my feelings about this.

are you sure?


..now that's just me putting words (or worse actually) in your mouth. sorry!

I agree on this pointing to a bigger/faster/more version of the Old World, but that approach isn't unexpected, no? I personally don't mind too much, the key point will be is the average human in this new miniature line in scale with the average human of yesteryear's models. If so everybody can season their Old World to taste with these crystal-ladden Kislevites. Some may want more, some less.

[S.O.F]

I agree on this pointing to a bigger/faster/more version of the Old World, but that approach isn't unexpected, no? I personally don't mind too much, the key point will be is the average human in this new miniature line in scale with the average human of yesteryear's models. If so everybody can season their Old World to taste with these crystal-ladden Kislevites. Some may want more, some less.

I think many of us discussing this here have down so countless times over the years through many a thread but what I just find so perplexing is I was always under the impression that part of a revival was to appeal to the gamer AoS left behind in over all tone of the miniatures not just the setting. Further when the highly successful Warhammer Total War titles have done their troop art (sadly no their landscapes in some places looking at you Black Fire Pass) more on the older grounded style and been loved for it.

[The Black Knight]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/12/28/the-old-world-your-first-look-at-the-map-of-bretonnia/

New article about the revival of the Old World on Warhammer community, focused on Bretonnia.

With the mentioning of Louen Orc Slayer the time frame now seems confirmed as 2200's. They also mentioned it being a 'new game', which to me hints at a completely new rules system.

[GamesPoet]

Bretonnia getting some love, I see.  Along with Orcs, High Elfs, and Wood Elfs.

[Gankom]

I find it very interesting that the third(?) major faction previewed is Bretts. Who got squatted harder then the Black Knight took on Monty Python. Although it also briefly shows some High Elf enclaves on the Bret coast, orcs in the interior and the Wood Elves.

[Feanor Fire Heart]

I'm excited. A bit confused on why they rewound the clock so far, but Brets being in the game along with an Empire Civil War should be interesting.

Lately, since playing as them in TW2, I have been on a bit of a Beastmen kick and have been watching old battle reports on youtube. I hope they get included since their miniature range is already in Age of Sigmar.

I am curious on what the new rules\game is going to be like. I tried watching a few AoS games but was thoroughly confused and hope its not too different from the old editions. I do miss moving trays, but I can understand why they can be a bit annoying when it comes to moving through terrain.

[GamesPoet]

It does make me want to paint some of my Empire dudes.

[Draccan]

We know they took the "battle" name out of it, changed the period and we know Forge World is involved and that squares are somehow coming back.
And we are starting to get a glimpse of the world and the period it is set in.

I still find it hard to believe this will be a continuation of Warhammer Fantasy Battle. Either they go 20-22mm scale or they change the units in the game so much, that people are hard-pressed to consider new models. They wouldn't go much smaller than that, 10mm is Warmaster and smaller scales makes it hard to sell expensive models. 20-22mm would mean they could still release big kits of monsters, dragons, airships and big machines.

Also I doubt we will see Bretonnia, Empire, Orcs & Goblins army books. I bet it will be a tighter focus on say Louen Leoncoeur's Orc Slayers, Nuln Gunnery School etc.

The square part may not be individual bases but alluding to movement trays. They might even drop the idea of individual model removing as casualties. Set movement tray sizes, smaller unit sizes and games would make more sense if FW is involved.

There are simply too many unknowns (including if this is Forge World only = impossible to afford) for me to get really excited.

[GamesPoet]

I'd be disappointed if they go to 20mm sized figures.  Besides, with my 28mm, then I'd scale the game up to that anyway.

[Feanor Fire Heart]

I have seen some batt-reps where they use the circle bases from AoS but they have trays for them so you can move them in square trays. The unit fronts are slightly bigger, along with the flanks, but if both sides are using them it balances out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dX7jWWMH5BU

[Warlord]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/12/28/the-old-world-your-first-look-at-the-map-of-bretonnia/

New article about the revival of the Old World on Warhammer community, focused on Bretonnia.

With the mentioning of Louen Orc Slayer the time frame now seems confirmed as 2200's. They also mentioned it being a 'new game', which to me hints at a completely new rules system.

Norse Dwarves written up top right of the big map.

[GamesPoet]

Noticed there are boundary differences in the southern part of the Empire maybe Averland, Wissenland, and Pheildorf?  If the new game is set in the 2200's, Solland has already fallen back in 1707.

[Draccan]

What the story of the three emperors in this period and what's going on with Empire? And what's the story of Marienburg? Part of the Empire?

[S.O.F]

Noticed there are boundary differences in the southern part of the Empire maybe Averland, Wissenland, and Pheildorf?  If the new game is set in the 2200's, Solland has already fallen back in 1707.

My assumption was it was a non-congruent supporter of one of the four Imperial claimants.

What the story of the three emperors in this period and what's going on with Empire? And what's the story of Marienburg? Part of the Empire?

Well on the old fluff there would be four Emperors if 2200s is the setting: The Ottilian line of the Emperors in Talabecland who were the first 'pretenders' in 1360, the Wolf Emperors of Middenheim who split off after the Sigmarites refused to allow seating of Electors that would have voted for the popular Middenheim Graf in the Volkshalle of 1547, the Electoral Emperors of Marienburg who were victors of the last true Volkshalle in 1979 but denied the crown by the Grand Theogonist, and then whatever Sigmarite Emperor the Cult of Sigmar backed which it appears is Reikland is in the era of this map.

Marienburg and the Grand Barony of the Westerland is very much part of the Empire and would have had a Runefang (it later went to Nordland which was perhaps a dependent or in personal union with Marienburg and non-Grand province at the time).

[Sharkbelly]

What the story of the three emperors in this period and what's going on with Empire? And what's the story of Marienburg? Part of the Empire?

Marienburg was never REALLY part of the Empire... just tolerated a partnership for a while. 

[GamesPoet]

 

[Zygmund]

Norse Dwarves written up top right of the big map.

When did GW sell Norse Dwarfs the last time? I'm not sure if I'm thrilled or horrified to see them do them again in 2020's.

There are also seven or eight Norse tribes listed. Looking at Warcry, these might all eventually end up getting a look & units of their own.

Empire is divided into six regions, and the two southernmost (one mostly inside the other) do not have a coat of arms. You guys have probably discussed this through already, so what do you think about it: are these parts not "Empire", but part of another faction?

Also, the Taal coat of arms seems to cover both Talabecland and Stirland. Yet The Empire at War (Black Library 2006) has Ottilia of Talabecland and the Count of Stirland fighting already in 1360. So has Talabecland swallowed Stirland in the 2200's? This has probably been discoussed through too, so what do you think?

Here's what I think GW is doing: they are giving hints, and checking all the interweb sites for the reactions. They then tailor the game to at least partially give what the fans hope for. At least that's what I would do if I started years ahead by filling a map with details.

The square part may not be individual bases but alluding to movement trays.

Well, the original leak about squares coming around again clearly showed a black square base. Most probably a 20mm square, judging from the proportions.

-Z

[S.O.F]

Also, the Taal coat of arms seems to cover both Talabecland and Stirland. Yet The Empire at War (Black Library 2006) has Ottilia of Talabecland and the Count of Stirland fighting already in 1360. So has Talabecland swallowed Stirland in the 2200's? This has probably been discoussed through too, so what do you think?

Since they only really fight so much because they are way into each other. 

No I think I noted that as odd when the Empire map first came out since Stirland being so strong Sigmarite would not jive with Talabecland but hey could work not certain they will spin it all that well.

As a side note WHFRP 4 has deigned to name the Count of Stirland in 1360, Count Wilhelm so there is that. WHFRP 4 is odd though since it has upped the amount that the Sigmarite Cult was generally politically well 'evil' in the Civil War era while at the same time down playing the misogyny that was a pretty core component of the Cult through much of its history. 

[GamesPoet]

Noticed there are boundary differences in the southern part of the Empire maybe Averland, Wissenland, and Pheildorf?  If the new game is set in the 2200's, Solland has already fallen back in 1707.

My assumption was it was a non-congruent supporter of one of the four Imperial claimants.

My guess is that these locations will be allied with Reikland & Altdorf.

What the story of the three emperors in this period and what's going on with Empire? And what's the story of Marienburg? Part of the Empire?

Well on the old fluff there would be four Emperors if 2200s is the setting: The Ottilian line of the Emperors in Talabecland who were the first 'pretenders' in 1360, the Wolf Emperors of Middenheim who split off after the Sigmarites refused to allow seating of Electors that would have voted for the popular Middenheim Graf in the Volkshalle of 1547, the Electoral Emperors of Marienburg who were victors of the last true Volkshalle in 1979 but denied the crown by the Grand Theogonist, and then whatever Sigmarite Emperor the Cult of Sigmar backed which it appears is Reikland is in the era of this map.

Marienburg and the Grand Barony of the Westerland is very much part of the Empire and would have had a Runefang (it later went to Nordland which was perhaps a dependent or in personal union with Marienburg and non-Grand province at the time).

Thanks for the reminder on this fluff!

[GamesPoet]

Also, the Taal coat of arms seems to cover both Talabecland and Stirland. Yet The Empire at War (Black Library 2006) has Ottilia of Talabecland and the Count of Stirland fighting already in 1360. So has Talabecland swallowed Stirland in the 2200's? This has probably been discoussed through too, so what do you think?

Since they only really fight so much because they are way into each other. 

No I think I noted that as odd when the Empire map first came out since Stirland being so strong Sigmarite would not jive with Talabecland but hey could work not certain they will spin it all that well.

As a side note WHFRP 4 has deigned to name the Count of Stirland in 1360, Count Wilhelm so there is that. WHFRP 4 is odd though since it has upped the amount that the Sigmarite Cult was generally politically well 'evil' in the Civil War era while at the same time down playing the misogyny that was a pretty core component of the Cult through much of its history.

I'm imagining that over the various years that there have been various civil wars and conquests where some places have aligned with or beemn taken over by other provinces along the way.

[Jmash]

Pretty sure the First Vampire Wars were in this era too? Led by good old Vlad. I've actually been lured towards the undead legions recently so quite looking forward to some new VC offerings - that and the revival of the Brets. There seems to have been a focus on Kislev too in the original teasers of WIP and they've mentioned HE.

All in all I'm pretty excited but at the same time apprehensive given GW's tendency of late to be 'more is more', they sometimes overshoot the mark and take things a bit beyond the realms (for me) of believability, even in a fantasy realm!

[S.O.F]

Pretty sure the First Vampire Wars were in this era too? Led by good old Vlad. I've actually been lured towards the undead legions recently so quite looking forward to some new VC offerings - that and the revival of the Brets. There seems to have been a focus on Kislev too in the original teasers of WIP and they've mentioned HE.

It would be a few generations after the end of the Vampire Wars, 2000-2150 IC roughly, and Vlad would have been the very first phase.