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Author Topic: Is Fantasy Back - Everything comes round again. Even squares  (Read 23379 times)

Offline Karak Norn Clansman

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Re: Is Fantasy Back - Everything comes round again. Even squares
« Reply #25 on: November 16, 2019, 01:31:31 PM »
Something I'm very curious about, is whether Games Workshop will take the chance to delve into more areas of the Warhammer World. Albion, Vampire Coast or Cathay, for instance.



Nippon in the 1980s, not seen in miniature form ever since.

This could be especially doable if the new Warhammer Fantasy take is more limited in scope than the vast army books of the past, with all their demands for miniature kits. The army book format in and of itself became a creative straitjacket for the GW studio. In the 1980s, they were free to release a handful of new figures whenever they felt like it, and thus explore Nippon, Halflings, Norsca, Fimir or a plethora of monsters with small investment of resources. In the 1990s-2000s, they were increasingly bound up in the demands of the army book threadmill. If they wanted to release something new, it had to either be a complete new army, or just something small on the spin-off side such as specialist games and Dreadfleet (for which the market wasn't good in those days, or at least marketing under Kirby wasn't up to the task) or summer campaign miniatures such as the Hellcannon, Middenheim and Albion miniatures delving into niche concepts.



Kislev during 6th edition: A mini-army, later unsupported.

We did see Dogs of War and Chaos Dwarfs as a small new army in the 1990s (unsupported after 5th edition up to 8th), and a small army for Kislev in 6th edition, unsupported thereafter. Warmaster sported Araby, but Warmaster was not a great hit. Ogre Kingdoms was the one new big army, or one of two if you count the Daemons of Chaos' expanded range, and it needed an entire miniature range.



Chaos Dwarfs: 1990s army, yet left out in the cold for most of Warhammer Fantasy.

Then there were fun thematic armies in White Dwarf, such as Kemmler's Barrow legion, Vampire Coast, Clan Moulder and the Gnoblar Horde. Building on existing modelling ranges and often requiring conversions: Which was part of the fun, for sure, but ensured it stayed a tiny niche and opened up for small companies to produce models GW weren't. This problem of inviting in the small competition to open new niches was much exacerbated when studio designers during 7th edition introduced new units in army lists which did not yet sport official models, such as Forsaken.



Dreadfleet: One last exploratory hurrah before the End Times.

This commercial bind ultimately put dampeners on Warhammer's creative potential: It is huge, and can be explored to much greater extent with a more limited setup than army book-threadmill WHFB of old. But ultimately GW would want to produce models for anything peripheral they delve into, and that mean they may well shy away from introducing more things on the periphery of the background, to not give competitors possible bones to snatch.



Fimir: A weird 1980s creation because the CEO wanted Warhammer to have its very own fantasy race. Resurrected lately by Forgeworld after decades of hibernation.

So there may be little in the way of brand new additions to the glorious setting, such as Inca Dwarfs in Lustria, fantasy Songhai and so on. And there may potentially also be little in the way of covering already existing periphery stuff such as Khureshi Nagas, Albion, Ind, Norsca and so on; this obviously depends on commercial success, how limited in scope the new game and miniature ranges will be, and on budget or will within the studio.

This is a long-standing limit to driving the creative potential of Games Workshop's own grimdark, historically based, classic fantasy smörgåsbord setting to the hilt. It remains to be seen if and how GW will tackle this obstacle.

Cheers

Offline Artobans Ghost

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Re: Is Fantasy Back - Everything comes round again. Even squares
« Reply #26 on: November 16, 2019, 02:00:47 PM »
Good reply👆😸
Let’s hope. That sounds very inspiring.
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Offline KTG17

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Re: Is Fantasy Back - Everything comes round again. Even squares
« Reply #27 on: November 16, 2019, 03:43:28 PM »
Karak, I think all that is cool, but I think this would prob be limited in scope for some time. Like a few good and a few bad. Let’s not forget that WFB wasn’t doing that great to begin with and that’s why Sigmar came around to begin with. I love fringe minis and armies too but those are really only bought by diehard fans. They have to rope in the masses first.

I think WFB is pretty complicating (what little I know) so I expect a 40k 8th edition treatment on TOW. Like a several pages on rules and leave rules for the units to expand on them. Which isn’t a bad thing. That way it keeps the general rules light, and lets GW be more creative creating rules for those units, as opposed to trying to fit various general skills from the rulebook plus any other. At least that is what I gather is going on.

Since I am new I know very little beyond what little I know about the Empire and Bretonnian, but I imagine focusing on the early days of a fragile Empire with various human armies going at it would be a really feasible thing to do. So it would be focused on human armies and then slowly introducing other races if things take off. Kind of like a Horus Heresy thing. Now I don’t know if there is anything in the history for that, but if they threw in the other human armies like Albion and so on I gather it would be a mix of old and fresh.

I am probably the last person to suggest anything, you guys know the lore better than I do.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2019, 03:45:52 PM by KTG17 »

Offline ZeroTwentythree

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Re: Is Fantasy Back - Everything comes round again. Even squares
« Reply #28 on: November 16, 2019, 04:59:54 PM »
Well, a number of early scenarios (2nd ed) did focus on slaan, norse, and amazons - along with miniatures to go with them. And Albion (McDeath) too.

But I expect them to focus on the popular factions from recent editions

Offline Gankom

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Re: Is Fantasy Back - Everything comes round again. Even squares
« Reply #29 on: November 16, 2019, 05:17:14 PM »
Honestly I expect them to stick almost entirely to the popular ranges. Brets and tomb kings got squatted because no one was buying them, why would they bother bringing them back? Or for that matter, expanding into even lesser known and liked ranges?

The one flip side I see, is if they do something like kill team/blackstone fortress/the age of sigmar war band one who's name escapes me. Make it much smaller scale, and they can do lots of little fun things.

Offline Gankom

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Re: Is Fantasy Back - Everything comes round again. Even squares
« Reply #30 on: November 16, 2019, 06:16:00 PM »
Its worth remembering to that this likely isn't going to retcon the ending. The Old World still dies. This is likely going to be just more stories and a campaign in the setting, rather then changing the setting.

In other news, Gdubs is getting in on the meme game, poking fun at their own announcement.








Offline StealthKnightSteg

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Re: Is Fantasy Back - Everything comes round again. Even squares
« Reply #31 on: November 16, 2019, 08:41:27 PM »
Its worth remembering to that this likely isn't going to retcon the ending. The Old World still dies. This is likely going to be just more stories and a campaign in the setting, rather then changing the setting.

In other news, Gdubs is getting in on the meme game, poking fun at their own announcement.









you missed one  :happy:

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Offline mottdon

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Re: Is Fantasy Back - Everything comes round again. Even squares
« Reply #32 on: November 16, 2019, 09:41:43 PM »
Lol, I wondered how many of you guys here would still be interested in the Old World and how many had switched over to AoS. Good to see a lot of the old crew keeping it loyal to Karl! :biggriin:

Offline Karak Norn Clansman

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Re: Is Fantasy Back - Everything comes round again. Even squares
« Reply #33 on: November 16, 2019, 09:57:59 PM »
GW has already confirmed that the End Times and Age of Sigmar stands. This is a different historical epoch, just like Horus Heresy is to 40k.

That's the official line at least. Headcanon reigns supreme at the end of the day.

Cheers

Offline StealthKnightSteg

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Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege.

"Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music." -- Kristian Wilson, Nintendo, Inc, 1989

Offline ZeroTwentythree

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Re: Is Fantasy Back - Everything comes round again. Even squares
« Reply #35 on: November 17, 2019, 02:11:16 AM »
GW has already confirmed that the End Times and Age of Sigmar stands. This is a different historical epoch, just like Horus Heresy is to 40k.

Makes sense, and the idea of playing in-setting ”historical” battles has been explored in small ways before, like War of the Beard, and the Kemmler/Cairns campaigns.

Offline Rowsdower

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Re: Is Fantasy Back - Everything comes round again. Even squares
« Reply #36 on: November 17, 2019, 07:09:53 AM »
Every payday in 2008 I would stroll into the local games shop and buy two Empire kits. How I miss buying Empire kits en masse.

Offline Zak

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Re: Is Fantasy Back - Everything comes round again. Even squares
« Reply #37 on: November 17, 2019, 02:47:09 PM »
I stated a long while back when the first end times book came out that playing in a pre-end of times, during the end times ,or post end of times, would be a neat way to run various games. It also links everything from classic Warhammer to AOS.
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Offline Mathi Alfblut

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Re: Is Fantasy Back - Everything comes round again. Even squares
« Reply #38 on: November 17, 2019, 05:27:30 PM »
I cannot wait for the Old World!
Oh, and remember GW made it personal, not you!

Offline Qrab

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Re: Is Fantasy Back - Everything comes round again. Even squares
« Reply #39 on: November 17, 2019, 05:33:45 PM »
This will turn out to be much ado about nothing.

Anybody who thinks this will result in new Empire models anywhere near compatible with the models produced during 6th (or even 8th) edition are deluding themselves.

Offline Gankom

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Re: Is Fantasy Back - Everything comes round again. Even squares
« Reply #40 on: November 17, 2019, 06:14:41 PM »
I don't really care that much about new models, although that would be a nice bonus and I can see them making some. For Empire at least, as one of the main factions. I have some doubts about less popular groups like Bretts or Tomb Kings getting models.

I just like this because its bringing the Old World back in some way, and means there will be at least some thought to it. Even if its just a rule set and nothing else, its better then nothing. Plus they've made a big deal in AoS about how the worlds are linked. This is a nice way of keeping that going.

Online GamesPoet

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Re: Is Fantasy Back - Everything comes round again. Even squares
« Reply #41 on: November 18, 2019, 02:03:27 AM »
Unless they put their money where their teasing is, I'm not holding my breath for them, and keeping my expectations low.
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Offline Warlord

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Re: Is Fantasy Back - Everything comes round again. Even squares
« Reply #42 on: November 18, 2019, 04:34:42 AM »
I am most hopeful for what this will do for the forum :happy:
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Offline Gargolock

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Re: Is Fantasy Back - Everything comes round again. Even squares
« Reply #43 on: November 18, 2019, 07:25:23 AM »
I personally do care but know I probably won’t play it. I just started with Kings of War and am loving it. I doubt this new edition will be better IMO than Kings of War.

Considering how they said it’s gonna take 3 years or more. I think that there’s gonna be brand new models for most factions and maybe a few new factions to try to draw new players in (they did mention the success of Total War: Warhammer, so maybe Vampire Coast).

 I am excited and hopeful for new models, however I think they will be too pricey for my tastes.

Online GamesPoet

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Re: Is Fantasy Back - Everything comes round again. Even squares
« Reply #44 on: November 18, 2019, 02:59:25 PM »
Ha!  Good reminder regarding price.  I'm sure it won't be inexpensive.
"Not all who wander are lost ... " Tolkien

"... my old suggestion is forget it, take two aspirins and go paint" steveb

"The beauty of curiosity and creativity is so much more useful than the passion of fear." me

"Until death it is all life." Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra

Offline The Black Knight

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Re: Is Fantasy Back - Everything comes round again. Even squares
« Reply #45 on: November 18, 2019, 03:50:35 PM »
I don't care if the rules suck or it's expensive. Buying OOP minis is also expensive but that hasn't stopped me from expanding my armies. As for rules - I've been playing 8 th and 9th age for the past 4 years. I'm fine with sticking to them, or exploring older editions. Not a problem.

All I care is that they are becoming involved with the Old World again. Think of all the things they can revive apart from WFB! Mordheim, Skirmish, Man o War, Warmaster. Hell, maybe even a proper warhammer quest!
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Offline Zak

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Re: Is Fantasy Back - Everything comes round again. Even squares
« Reply #46 on: November 18, 2019, 04:30:33 PM »
I don't care if the rules suck or it's expensive. Buying OOP minis is also expensive but that hasn't stopped me from expanding my armies. As for rules - I've been playing 8 th and 9th age for the past 4 years. I'm fine with sticking to them, or exploring older editions. Not a problem.

All I care is that they are becoming involved with the Old World again. Think of all the things they can revive apart from WFB! Mordheim, Skirmish, Man o War, Warmaster. Hell, maybe even a proper warhammer quest!

WORD!!  :eusa_clap: :eusa_clap: :eusa_clap:
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Online GamesPoet

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Re: Is Fantasy Back - Everything comes round again. Even squares
« Reply #47 on: November 18, 2019, 05:27:50 PM »
Excel. :icon_wink:
"Not all who wander are lost ... " Tolkien

"... my old suggestion is forget it, take two aspirins and go paint" steveb

"The beauty of curiosity and creativity is so much more useful than the passion of fear." me

"Until death it is all life." Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra

Offline Cèsar de Quart

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Re: Is Fantasy Back - Everything comes round again. Even squares
« Reply #48 on: November 18, 2019, 07:22:00 PM »
All I care is that they are becoming involved with the Old World again. Think of all the things they can revive apart from WFB! Mordheim, Skirmish, Man o War, Warmaster. Hell, maybe even a proper warhammer quest!

Mordheim.

MORDHEIM!

Offline Grutch

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Re: Is Fantasy Back - Everything comes round again. Even squares
« Reply #49 on: November 18, 2019, 10:51:46 PM »
GW has the ability to give us another RnF game. 

They could make a movement tray system game that has interlocking components to quickly change formations where you attach your models to.  Those could be artfully molded up. 

I've been working on a RnF fantasy battle video game for years and through some hardcore testing in game and tabletop examples the movement and flanking and such were just too restrictive to be fun. But we have come up with some pretty savvy ways to make these games play fast and fun and I have no doubt GW could do the same thing.

I think the problem with earlier builds of warhammer was the movement was too restrictive and complicated and even though hardcore Fantasy players insisted it must stay, so many arguments came out of wheeling, room to maneuver, accidental shifts when moving that made a difference in being charged or not... 

If the new warhammer is just another skirmish mob game like AoS, that would be terribly disappointing. It's hard to say what they will deliver, but it depends on who GW will elect to run this.  It's too early to tell but at this point, "old world" Warhammer is a bit lost. 

The Old World was appealing because it touched on known fantasy Myths from Tolkien, Moorcock, and Howard and didn't stray too far into weirdness.  It was the bridge into those worlds without taking their IP and it became one of it's own which brought people to the table. But the Old World is amazing and wow do you get a fine taste of it in Vermintide.