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Author Topic: Empire Town project - scenery  (Read 4732 times)

Offline elsmallo

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Empire Town project - scenery
« on: August 25, 2020, 01:23:05 PM »
Hi folks, this is my first post to this excellent community.

As a longtime Empire and Fantasy fan, it's been one of my ambitions to build a set of scenery pieces to represent a small town or village in the Empire. I built some Mordheim scenery back in the day, and a few half-finished dioramas, but always enjoyed poring over the old White Dwarf dioramas and battle reports featuring the studio's Empire scenery, wishing I could put together my own collection, maybe with a unifing theme or identity behind it. My memory doesn't quite stretch as far back as the old cardboard Warhammer Townscape, but my aim was for a similar feel, more early Warhammer than the later, spikier Empire plastic kits released by GW.

Lockdown provided me with a perfect opportunity to finish some speculative buildings I started in 2019. As of today, I've finished these three (hardly a town but, I'm getting there)



Because it makes me feel good, a brief discussion of how these were built follows.

I've been accumulating cardboard boxes (mostly eBay warhammer buys, also things like food packaging) for ages, so selected appropriately sized ones to use as the base for each of the floors of each building. So the size is pretty random. I'd say they are slightly large for 28mm scale but pretty good. Sadly, I didn't take any photos of the initial stage, which looks like two cardboard boxes taped together. Because that's what it is.



This is the earliest picture I took of the first house I built, which actually ended up being a pretty complicated build. There's a lot of matchstick (I acquired a load of non-tipped matchsticks at some point) timber frames, and various wood offcut beams and the like. The chimney was I believe an old cardboard box for staples, and the pots the lids of mini superglues. Roof tiles are cereal box type cardboard cut up and laboriously glued on. I even put beams under the first floor and gables... the whole thing took an age even to get to this stage. The windows and doors are MDF by a company called Sally 4th.

The next stage is texturing. I use sand and glue to add texture and the stones were carved out of ordinary household filler using a dremel hobby tool. Very dusty.




The second house I made was smaller and less complicated. I gave it a little porchway area propped up by a wooden pillar to give it a bit of interest. The stones on the ground were just carved out of the base board with the dremel.



For scale reference, a couple of my minis up against the buildings, almost fully painted.



My third building was more ambitious and based on a fantastic model I spotted in one of the old Warhammer Battle books.



The building with the corner circular tower, it has an inn sign in the picture but I fancied making more of a town hall style building.



This is the 'loo roll tower' building, which pretty much took up two months or so of lockdown, along with gardening when the sun was out, April-May time this year. I do most of my modelling in our conservatory room, which gets pretty hot in the sun, so actually with all the hot weather we had in the UK this project was an evenings and mornings job. This is pretty much complete in the picture. The most difficult thing to build was the tapering triangular roof. I have no maths so ended up making paper cones and pretty much guessing the size until I got one that fit OK with the loo roll. One of the nice things about using old cardboard boxes for this kind of modelling is that the boxes get squeezed a bit out of shape (or aren't in shape to begin with) and accumulate various dents and scrapes during the process, which is perfect for the half-timber assymetrical 'Empire' dark fantasy style (or so I like to tell myself).



I try to make most things myself but the steps leading up to the main door are from the Terraincrate town centre scenery box. When it came the plastic parts were actually quite warped. I hadn't intended to use the stocks and platform but thought it worked OK as steps for this building. Except, logically, opening the double doors would be quite hard with this set-up. The doors themselves I used an old GW gothic archway combined with cobbled bits partly sculpted myself, which I then cast in resin:



This was my 'original' model.

The weathervane was put together using the Empire griffon accessory and various poles and arrows. Unfortunately the final part has sagged a bit so I may rebuild it at some point.







The undercoat stage.

I've not taken any better pictures of the more fully painted models due to becoming perfectionist about my photo set-up after too much reddit browsing. I'd like to add more buildings and join-up terrain elements like walls or wells and the like, when I have time. I'd also like to decide on a provincial theme for the town, incorporating that into the paint scheme for the buildings somehow, and give the town a name. Also paint some villagers, perhaps build a local militia force for it and other time-consuming things. Atm I'm torn between Wissenland as a theme, or Ostermark.

Any suggestions, feedback, C&C etc most appreciated on this lengthy post - thanks for reading!


« Last Edit: August 25, 2020, 01:27:34 PM by elsmallo »

Offline GamesPoet

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Re: Empire Town project - scenery
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2020, 01:33:58 PM »
Wow, great stuff, thanks so much for sharing! :icon_cool: :eusa_clap:

And welcome to W-E! :::cheers:::
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Offline elsmallo

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Re: Empire Town project - scenery
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2020, 02:50:19 PM »
Thank you!  :happy:

Offline Midaski

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Re: Empire Town project - scenery
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2020, 03:32:01 PM »
Excellent - welcome aboard.

I too have been trying to do something similar - build a town - for a long while.  :engel:
I tried some scratch built several years back, but they were very basic rectangles compared to your efforts.

More recently I have been using a variety of store bought models and trying to adapt them to suit by converting or adding bits - but I will still end up with a town with different 'districts' - townhouses in one, peasants in another, and then the nobles have their own area with protective towers.

I admire your patience and ingenuity - now can you see the project through.  :biggriin:
Quote from: Gneisenau
Quote
Metal to Finecast - It is mostly a swap of medium. 

You mean they will be using Ouija boards instead of Tarot cards for their business plans from now on?

Offline elsmallo

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Re: Empire Town project - scenery
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2020, 04:51:14 PM »
Thanks - appreciated.  :smile2:

Well, it sounds like you got a fair bit done with your town anyhow. I currently have three houses! My aim is also to have a purpose in mind at least for each building - I probably won't get as far as different districts but I want to assign a few villager models to each house and so on.

I already suspect it'll be beyond me to complete as originally imagined but, part of the reason I wanted to post here was to keep some momentum in the project. So, cheers for the encouragement.

Which store bought models have you used and do you recommend any?

Offline Midaski

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Re: Empire Town project - scenery
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2020, 05:48:46 PM »
I have a thread a few below yours in this board - you can see what I mean about the time frame if you look at the dates  :biggriin:

Pages 4, 5 & 6 have the mix of styles I was talking about.

The GW Fortified Manor which I have used in different ways.

Some Tabletop Workshop buildings which are plastic clip together kits - bland but ok.
Link to one source - but I got mine a lot cheaper.
https://www.northstarfigures.com/list.php?man=291&page=1

The last set is from someone called TSS - Total System Scenic who made a group of resin kits.
I acquired about 5 buildings many years ago and several of the walls were bent and I had to straighten them out in hot water when I eventually built them.
I did enhance them a bit putting them on bases with card flagstones and the 'courtyard' as you can see in the pics.

So it was a lot easier than starting with cardboard boxes.  :biggriin:

The 3 'styles' don't look too clever together, which is why I was talking about districts. The GW stuff could be the 'posh' area, the Tabletop Workshop for the upper middle classes, and then maybe the TSS stuff more for the lower classes and the like.

Quote from: Gneisenau
Quote
Metal to Finecast - It is mostly a swap of medium. 

You mean they will be using Ouija boards instead of Tarot cards for their business plans from now on?

Offline Naitsabes

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Re: Empire Town project - scenery
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2020, 07:40:46 PM »
very nice work!

You did a great job capturing that old white dwarf feel. A bit different from the more modern kits ('spikier' is a good description). I did some cereal box buildings myself but cut many more corners than you. Roofing shingles one by one? Madness! The sand/grit on the walls though looks great and I shall try that on my next build.

I am impressed by your resin pour of that big door. Finding the right doors/windows is a bit of a chore. I am pretty much through my stash of GW bldg leftover bits, so glad to see there are other options.

What's the plan for the streets and roadways?

Keep it up. Rome wasn't built in a day and all that.  :::cheers:::
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Offline Zygmund

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Re: Empire Town project - scenery
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2020, 02:41:01 PM »
Great townscape in making!  :eusa_clap: :eusa_clap: :eusa_clap:

-Z
Forget the 6'x4' game, focus on the story beyond that. Because fantasy matters.

Offline elsmallo

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Re: Empire Town project - scenery
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2020, 04:48:44 PM »
I have a thread a few below yours in this board - you can see what I mean about the time frame if you look at the dates  :biggriin:

I can see! You've got loads done over the years, looks brilliant. The kits don't look so off with each other, but I guess the GW manor kinda out militarises the others with all the battlements and the like. It looks great with the extended courtyard though.

I was out of touch with the hobby when GW released those kits but did manage to get some bits from the manor and chapel sets, mostly doors and some fence parts. So I hope to be able to build some kind of barracks building at some point and maybe a graveyard. I still need to consider how I'm actually going to situate the models in space somehow and how to make it into a gameable situation.

I've bought stuff from Northstar, a covered wagon and also some of the plastic tents you've got as well. I note with envy your Mordheim Stage Coach - this is one of the models I look back upon in old catalogues and wish I'd bought at the time.


Offline elsmallo

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Re: Empire Town project - scenery
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2020, 04:56:38 PM »

I am impressed by your resin pour of that big door. Finding the right doors/windows is a bit of a chore. I am pretty much through my stash of GW bldg leftover bits, so glad to see there are other options.

What's the plan for the streets and roadways?


Thanks very much!  :smile2:

I always thought it was a shame GW didn't go harder in on the buildings accessories, they were nice quality especially the Mordheim ones. I may (cough) have discovered molds and resing casting in order to ensure I don't run out of certain vital OOP bits, but my aim moving forward is to sculpt more of my own windows and doors and the like and copy those.

I've not thought much about the streets and roadways. Seeing the work of others on here is instructive. I have already based the buildings I've made and have in the pipeline, so may have slightly limited myself there. I think some kind of board system with recessed insets for the house bases might work - if I make the bases a limited number of sizes then theoretically this way I could have different layouts etc. I should probably resolve this before I make too many more. Not that I'm exactly speeding ahead...

Offline elsmallo

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Re: Empire Town project - scenery
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2020, 09:08:25 PM »
It was my birthday a few days ago and I was able to persuade my brother to play a game of Fantasy with me, giving me an opportunity to use my scenery (and my painted miniatures) in battle for the first time in ages.

My other big Warhammer project over the years has been making an army based on the mercenary Grudgebringers from the Dark Omen/Shadow of the Horned Rat games from back in the 90s. Plus an orc and goblin army which I've been doing simultaneously. As it was my birthday I of course took command of Morgan Bernhardt's men and left my brother the greenskins. I also took a 100 or so points advantage due to the slight discrepancy in painted troops.

I have some Mordheim terrain which I set up in the O&G deployment zone to represent the buildings they'd already razed to the ground:



The p/v of the Tilean crossbowmen, who were to shoot up many goblins in the early turns:



I realised during the battle that the buildings I've built, especially the main tower building, are pretty big and actually use up quite a lot of battlefield space when all used together, creating channels that pretty much force engagement along them, as I set them up on the day on our fairly narrow table anyhow.



A top-down view:



The grudgebringers had the day, although it ended up being more bloody than necessary after I charitably allowed a unit of big 'uns who'd fled the table to reform, who then promptly obliterated my main infantry unit. Morgan Bernhardt himself also fell ignominiously having failed to score even a wound against the Orc warboss:



In the end though the cavalry and dwarves proved too much for the greenskins and routed them from the field at around about 11.30 UK time  :-P

It was great fun and cool to be able to use the scenery in a game. I'd intended this more as a 'modelling' project but it's made me consider how I might make the scenery work better for gaming purposes. Chiefly, I think it needs to be more interactive. So possibly with a smaller footprint but more usable by miniatures. I'd like to have some flat-roofed buildings or balconies that could be stood on, as well as a town wall and gatehouse style building to be garrisoned.

I'm making a start on this next and have already started making a large double door for the gatehouse which I intend to cast in resin once it's finished. I'd like every building to have something I have designed myself in it that can be reused, rather than relying on cloned GW parts and other manufacturers. This is my effort so far:



 C&C extremely welcome :smile2:

Offline GamesPoet

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Re: Empire Town project - scenery
« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2020, 09:23:16 PM »
I like your painted miniatures! :icon_biggrin: :::cheers:::

The door for the gate (?)  looks like it is coming along masterfully! :icon_cool: :eusa_clap:

Happy Birthday!
« Last Edit: September 03, 2020, 11:37:43 AM by GamesPoet »
"Not all who wander are lost ... " Tolkien

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"The beauty of curiosity and creativity is so much more useful than the passion of fear." me

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Offline Zygmund

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Re: Empire Town project - scenery
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2020, 10:05:03 AM »
Nice report! Belated Happy birthday!  :smile2:

The p/v of the Tilean crossbowmen, who were to shoot up many goblins in the early turns

Hurray for the Tileans!

BTW, do you think the movement trays you are using are OK (for friendly games)? They didn't intrude in any way in the movement, wheeling, and engagement of the models in the first row?

Quote
I realised during the battle that the buildings I've built, especially the main tower building, are pretty big and actually use up quite a lot of battlefield space when all used together, creating channels that pretty much force engagement along them, as I set them up on the day on our fairly narrow table anyhow.

Good point. Something I've been pondering myself too, after building a house from scratch, and trying to keep to the scale. I've read that most game buildings are actually significantly smaller than they would be in real life, although they can be quite tall still. If the models are 1/56, the buildings can be 1/64 or even 1/72 with bigger windows and doors. This also results in somewhat narrow and tall buildings for wargames, similar to some fantasy art.

Quote
It was great fun and cool to be able to use the scenery in a game. I'd intended this more as a 'modelling' project but it's made me consider how I might make the scenery work better for gaming purposes. Chiefly, I think it needs to be more interactive. So possibly with a smaller footprint but more usable by miniatures. I'd like to have some flat-roofed buildings or balconies that could be stood on, as well as a town wall and gatehouse style building to be garrisoned.

Good ideas. Be sure to search for Mordheim townscape projects in the web. Some great inspiration there. Here's one in Facebook I'm following with interest:
https://www.facebook.com/msterrainlab

Your gatehouse doors are coming up nicely. They look properly big & heavy!  :-)

-Z
Forget the 6'x4' game, focus on the story beyond that. Because fantasy matters.

Offline elsmallo

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Re: Empire Town project - scenery
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2020, 11:00:34 PM »

BTW, do you think the movement trays you are using are OK (for friendly games)? They didn't intrude in any way in the movement, wheeling, and engagement of the models in the first row?


The movement trays are OKish but have some problems. Most of them are from a UK company called Sarissa Precision. I started my armies mainly from a painting/modelling angle rather than gaming, and as many of my units are quite customised, the models don't always fit together that well next to each other. So the trays with the little gaps in between help and they're useful also for display and storage. But even some old GW metals I've found won't actually always go next to each other, eg the old metal orc boyz. The champion from that unit has his big feet miles outside the base area, and won't fit with the rest of the command unit even with the little gap the trays I have provide! The trays can actually help as well to suggest how many the unit has lost with the empty spaces at the back.

The cavalry trays are problematic though - their footprint is massive and while still on the tray they are cumbersome to wield and do skew the movement. And with the big gap in between ranks and files it plays a bit loose with the range rules and templates for example.

In general though as long as you're aware of the slight placement alterations and use some imagination re. things like base to base contact, I think they're pretty playable. I always figured this as something GW could have put more time into developing themselves, given the fairly time-consuming nature of picking up every model, and the fairly uninspiring plastic trays they did develop. I also think many models just look better with a bit of space between them. If I ever get round to it I'd like to build some trays that allow for more haphazardous positioning of the models - especially the orcs - to suggest a more ragged bunch of warriors. Havoc though it may play with the game rules!

Quote
Good ideas. Be sure to search for Mordheim townscape projects in the web. Some great inspiration there. Here's one in Facebook I'm following with interest:
https://www.facebook.com/msterrainlab

This stuff is seriously impressive. Like someone seriously talented read the Mordheim book cover to cover at a pretty impressionable time and is realising that vision with skills. Inspiring modelling.

Thanks for your other comments. I intend to make a start on some more playable pieces this weekend and cast the door hopefully, although I have some new (old) goblins to paint too :)

Offline Rowsdower

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Re: Empire Town project - scenery
« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2020, 03:34:23 AM »
Ingenious use of ice cream sticks as door timber. Two thumbs up :eusa_clap:

Offline Zygmund

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Re: Empire Town project - scenery
« Reply #15 on: September 11, 2020, 09:46:22 AM »
Thanks for the analysis on the Sarissa trays!  :::cheers:::

-Z
Forget the 6'x4' game, focus on the story beyond that. Because fantasy matters.

Offline Rowsdower

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Re: Empire Town project - scenery
« Reply #16 on: September 11, 2020, 02:32:26 PM »
I stumbled across something the other day.
Pieces from discount store chess sets make great statues/shrines

Offline elsmallo

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Re: Empire Town project - scenery
« Reply #17 on: September 18, 2020, 10:29:53 PM »
I stumbled across something the other day.
Pieces from discount store chess sets make great statues/shrines

Actually the first ever bit of Warhammer scenery I made was something like this, when I was about 10! I will find sometime and put it up here.

Thanks for the analysis on the Sarissa trays!  :::cheers:::

No problem! I've started building different ones for my goblins which have smaller gaps and arrange the models a bit haphazardously, hopefully will work OK.

Ingenious use of ice cream sticks as door timber. Two thumbs up :eusa_clap:

Many thanks. I have a supply of these things from someone I know who works in a hotel!

Offline elsmallo

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Re: Empire Town project - scenery
« Reply #18 on: September 19, 2020, 10:21:03 AM »
I wrote previously about intending to make some more 'interactive' terrain. True to my word (amazingly) I spent last weekend building a piece. I figured an obviously usable set of terrain related to an Empire town would be a town wall, with walkways, battlements, towers, all with lots of places to put missile troops on. I envision this as a set of pieces on rectangular bases that can be placed together in different configurations. Rather than build my gatehouse first I thought I'd start with a smaller section. I've always liked houses that are built onto walls or cliff sides, so decided to build a small section of wall with a walkway atop it and attached house.

I started with a base and some offcuts of wood for the wall and first storey, plus my usual cardboard box second storey. I textured the wood using a Dremel hobby tool sanding attachment to represent large stones. The door and shuttered windows are of my own creation, cast in resin.



The bit of wood I used had a screwhole in it so I figured I'd turn it into some kind of siege-created hole. This is Warhammer after all. I attacked it with the dremel to widen it and create hard edges.



I built the piece up to incude a walkway, wide enough to fit two 20x20 bases, built with coffee stirrers atop a cardboard template, below:




...onto which models can climb via a little tower built out of half a berocca box, which conceals an (imaginary) ladder. So they can get the BS+1 vitamins buff  :-D. I put a  trapdoor hatch (I think Citadel) on top of this and added a sort of battlemen bit around it. Everything is glued with UHU, occasionally masking tape or staples were also used to clamp things.



The outward facing side has a high wall in part textured with some plasticard brick. The house roof also has damage. I'm thinking a rock lobber although some Chaos or Skaven war machine could also fit.



I'd assume that any building hit by such a projectile would have more extensive damage and toyed with the idea of trying to make the roof open as a space to put minis in but decided this would be too complicated, so settled for another hole, wth debris inside.



I added textures next with filler, sand textured paint and in places some new hobby clay I'm trying out - the flagstones on the tower flat top were created with this. Also added some debris next to the damaged parts, a little crate and some texture carved into the base. And of course roof tiles. 




After texturing I undercoated with grey and brown primer. I often think these models look best with the flat primer. it somehow brings out the 3D aspect.




I've so far only had time for a little bit of further painting of some basic colours on. I find the cardboard especially really absorbs paint so this stage takes longer than painting minis.




The whole build took pretty much a whole weekend, working hours, although much of this time was spent mulling the next stage or peeling glue off my fingers. Hopefully will get a chance to do a bit more painting this weekend, hope you guys like!  :biggriin:

Offline Artobans Ghost

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Re: Empire Town project - scenery
« Reply #19 on: September 19, 2020, 11:56:12 AM »
You sir, are a terrain wizard. That is an awesome piece
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Offline GamesPoet

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Re: Empire Town project - scenery
« Reply #20 on: September 19, 2020, 02:32:59 PM »
Excellent!  And appreciate the photos of how this was built, thank you! :icon_biggrin: :eusa_clap: :::cheers:::

Also, what it caused me to imagine was having this as a piece that could be used as part of a large manor house complex. :icon_cool:
"Not all who wander are lost ... " Tolkien

"... my old suggestion is forget it, take two aspirins and go paint" steveb

"The beauty of curiosity and creativity is so much more useful than the passion of fear." me

"Until death it is all life." Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra

Offline elsmallo

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Re: Empire Town project - scenery
« Reply #21 on: September 20, 2020, 10:38:27 AM »
You sir, are a terrain wizard. That is an awesome piece

Thank you kind sir. Much appreciated and encouraging.

Excellent!  And appreciate the photos of how this was built, thank you! :icon_biggrin: :eusa_clap: :::cheers:::

Also, what it caused me to imagine was having this as a piece that could be used as part of a large manor house complex. :icon_cool:

Again, thanks. My idea is to have several pieces of similar size which can be put together, yes. As long as the walkway height is roughly similar and there isn't space to the sides of the pieces, so they can go right up against another, and some 'corner' pieces would also need to be built.

I had some time to paint yesterday so have pretty much finished this piece off I think. Here are the Grudgebringer crossbows defending the wall:



And some different angles:






I'm pretty pleased with how it came out, although it's maybe looking a little grimy and weathered.

I will have a crack at a new section soon. I still need to decide on a theme or location for the town. I'm leaning towards Wissenheim atm as I think the buildings look pretty solid and also greyish in colour so far, suiting a more built-up and industrial province. Also I have loads of grey and crimson paint still so this'll enable me to paint up some town guard units.

Thanks for all the encouragment!  :happy:

Offline Sigmar90

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Re: Empire Town project - scenery
« Reply #22 on: September 20, 2020, 12:00:49 PM »
Wow I have to admit that I am really impressed by what you guys have build. Do you use acrylic paint or any other kind of paint tools? This is a very interesting hobby and I am looking forward  seeing new things you guys build.
Best wishes,
Sigmar90
« Last Edit: September 21, 2020, 08:05:39 AM by Sigmar90 »

Offline elsmallo

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Re: Empire Town project - scenery
« Reply #23 on: September 25, 2020, 01:09:20 PM »
Wow I have to admit that I am really impressed by what you guys have build. Do you use acrylic paint or any other kind of paint tools? This is a very interesting hobby and I am looking forward  seeing new things you guys build.
Best wishes,
Sigmar90

Thank you!

I mostly use big bristle brushes, like for oil painting, for terrain painting, as well as standard GW-type miniature brushes. I just do loads of drybrushing and also make a lot of washes - for example making a beige/light grey wash out of paint thinned with water is the way I get the mortar in between the bricks done. Usually 2-3 washes to get it right. And yes tube acrylic paint like for art painting as well as citadel and other brand model paints.

Offline Rowsdower

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Re: Empire Town project - scenery
« Reply #24 on: September 25, 2020, 09:39:52 PM »
Love the Tudor windows :eusa_clap: