Topic: Preparing for the Re-Release of the Olde World ...

[GamesPoet]

So ... with what is more and more seeming like to be the impending re-release of the Olde World, and to a time before what got left behind after the 8th edition (let's not chat about all that negativity in this thread, thanks!), here are some questions for folks to review and discuss ...

1. Are you in to Kislev, interested in getting into Kislev newly or again, and are you planning for this if anything?

2.  Are you into the Border Princes, interested in getting into it newly or again, and what are you planning for this?

3.  Are you into Cathay, interested in getting into it newly or again, and what are you planning for this?

4.  Looks like the Empire will be featured as the Time of Three Kingdoms, and are you doing anything new in looking forward to getting back?

In essence, what are you doing to prepare for the seeming to be likely re-release of the Olde Worlde?

And please, some folks will have a sense of negativity about such things, except this thread is being set up more for the idea of this fantasy coming true, and what we're going to do as part of that process as a result.  Yes, GW keeps putting out more new things now on this, and the chat on the video gaming is another aspect of apparently moving this project forward, so even if ya don't believe it will happen, or are keeping your expectations down regarding the rules, and understandably so, don't spoil it for the rest of us who are interested in exploring and preparing for this fantasy to be true.

[GamesPoet]

And as for me ...

1.  I have a few Kislev figures, believe just two cavalry units, and will likely focus on other things than Kislev, although Bear Cavalry is tempting.

2. I am very encouraged to see the Border Princes getting some love after the recent posting over on GW's site.  I look forward to learning what new things they have in mind for this, and plan to continue work on my Matorean army.

3. Although I am looking forward to Cathay, perhaps just to have some units painted up, and included with my Border Prince ideas or some such.

4.  I'm very much looking forward to this, it brings me wanting to return to painting my Averlanders some more,  and that is the plan.

Generally my enthusiasm has even gotten me to start a list of my Warhammer projects, prioritize them in a way that I get the easiest and quickest ones done first, and then move on to some of the other projects I have always wanted to start as well.

[Michael Stockin]

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[Jmash]

1. I have a single unit of Kossars, looking for a couple more to round it off as well as the command units. Also have the noble guy from Cursed City that I sort of had penned as a Kislevite. I'm intrigued as to what they'll bring out but not sure if I'd go all-in with an army, maybe cherry pick a few of the nicer looking units. knowing me most likely infantry - we'll see.

2. So far I only own Lietpold the Black, but he could do with a few bands of petty militia to lead. As with the above, I'll probably keep my eyes peeled and pick up a few bits and bobs but probably not all-in.

3. Not much interest in Cathay tbh, they don't fit in any way with the main focus of my collecting which is of course Empire (1 & 2 have links at least) so unless they're mightily impressive I don't think I'll be partaking... definitely intrigued by what they'll do with Cathay though don't get me wrong.

4. This is the big one (shouldn't it be the same for everybody on this forum!? ) but in many ways it kinda presents me with more dilemmas! - do I continue to add to my already enormous Wissenland army and have a single collection spanning nearly all the editions of Empire models? Or do I use the new range as a cut off point to start something new? I do have Marius Leitdorf from neighbouring Averland who is currently lacking any underlings, and then I've also dabbled with the idea of Hochland (I have a good idea for an Aldebrand Ludenhof conversion) sooo who knows? I think whatever happens my main focus is likely to stay around the Karl Franz era as I know that the best but I dare say I'll end up being a sucker for most things that get released and will probably end up buying the lot, regardless of timeline, characters and continuity. Hell, I have all 3 versions of Valten in my collection so anything goes!

[brr-icy]

1. Are you in to Kislev, interested in getting into Kislev newly or again, and are you planning for this if anything?

I'm interested in the new models, I have a little 1k point allied army now, but I would like to get the bear riders to switch be the gryphon legion, leave the others as winged lancers since the models are so similar in the original line up

2.  Are you into the Border Princes, interested in getting into it newly or again, and what are you planning for this?

not really, unless they put some of the old DoW into the army, I'm not planning on any

3.  Are you into Cathay, interested in getting into it newly or again, and what are you planning for this?

I like the army, but it's going to be heavily reliant on the rules being good, which I haven't had trust in them making good new rules for well over a decade

4.  Looks like the Empire will be featured as the Time of Three Kingdoms, and are you doing anything new in looking forward to getting back?

My empire army is well over 10,000 points in 6th, I'm not too concerned with what they make yet

In essence, what are you doing to prepare for the seeming to be likely re-release of the Olde Worlde?

I'm tentatively interested. if the rules are good, I'll probably buy all the things. Especially Cathay as I love the look of the units and characters so far. If they're not good, I'll grab some of the models for my 6th collection and pass on the rest.

[GamesPoet]

Being a 10mm player, I am looking forward to what models they bring out so I can collect for when we move to a bigger house.

As for the rules, I will get them but if I don't like them I will carry on using 3rd edition.

Not fussed about 1.
Not massively fussed about 2 as we tweaked the setting to fit our armies anyway.
3 zero interest in that.
4 The empire is why I ply, love the setting.

I here ya on the Empire.  If I hadn't started with those, I'd not be interested in the rest at all.

As for new figures, looking forward to what will be released, although not expecting there will be a ton of new stuff initially.  Besides, the more I work on some of my older stuff, the better.

[GamesPoet]

...

3. Not much interest in Cathay tbh, they don't fit in any way with the main focus of my collecting which is of course Empire (1 & 2 have links at least) so unless they're mightily impressive I don't think I'll be partaking... definitely intrigued by what they'll do with Cathay though don't get me wrong.

It is interesting to see there isn't a lot of folks getting all jazzed up about Cathay.  Maybe more folks will  become interested as more becomes evident

And I hear ya too on the Empire.  Keeping my expectations low though for the moment.  It'll be interesting to see how the Three Kingdoms will be delineated, or what.  Perhaps it will all just be in a fluff way, except interested in learning what GW's take is on this.

[GamesPoet]

...

2.  Are you into the Border Princes, interested in getting into it newly or again, and what are you planning for this?

not really, unless they put some of the old DoW into the army, I'm not planning on any

Now that would be cool.  And perhaps they'll even put some time into Tilea and Estalia.  Perhaps.

3.  Are you into Cathay, interested in getting into it newly or again, and what are you planning for this?

I like the army, but it's going to be heavily reliant on the rules being good, which I haven't had trust in them making good new rules for well over a decade

...

This could be a good point, and here's hoping the rules really do work ok for the entire effort that might be made with the Olde World.

[Zygmund]

1. Are you in to Kislev, interested in getting into Kislev newly or again, and are you planning for this if anything?

Got a decent sized Kislev force. If the new Kislev has a good old vibe, I might get interested in painting more of them. Then again if the new Kislev will be all about new magical shiny stuff, I might feel discouraged.

2.  Are you into the Border Princes, interested in getting into it newly or again, and what are you planning for this?

I haven't toyed much with the Border Princes. The thing that got me somewhat interested was the description in the Gotrek series Orcslayer. I've been slowly painting some mish-mash Empire-Dow, Dwarfs and Orcs. They should fit nicely, if there are interesting stories and scenarios about the place.

3.  Are you into Cathay, interested in getting into it newly or again, and what are you planning for this?

My interests have always been very close to the Empire. No interest or time for Cathay.

4.  Looks like the Empire will be featured as the Time of Three Kingdoms, and are you doing anything new in looking forward to getting back?

Yes, this is a major draw for me. Some dynamic confrontations and political balancing should create room for interesting scenarios and battles. I have a Stirland army and am painting a combined Talabecland & DoW army. So I should be ready if something interesting comes out. Even if the official stuff is not interesting, I think I will still do something in the vein of Empire civil war, once my new army has enough regiments.

In essence, what are you doing to prepare for the seeming to be likely re-release of the Olde Worlde?

Well, since I never stopped building and painting Empire in the first place, I will continue as usual. Whatever GW does or doesn't do. Just like I've been doing for the past six years. 

-Z

[Naitsabes]

In essence, what are you doing to prepare for the seeming to be likely re-release of the Olde Worlde?

Well, since I never stopped building and painting Empire in the first place, I will continue as usual. Whatever GW does or doesn't do. Just like I've been doing for the past six years. 

-Z

Very much the same here! 

How excited I get about new releases will be very much dependent on the scale creep. If new models make my current army look like weedy teenagers that will curb my enthusiasm.

Fractions within the Empire is the most interesting to me, as it serves as source of inspiration even if I was staying with 8th edition rules. Kislev could also be neat. Rather straightforward to ignore supershiny-supermagic units (kind of inevitable with modern GW) as long as there are any average igors with proper fur hats.

Overall, I am pleasantly surprised how vague hints and shiny pics have (re)kindled peoples interest in warhammer not only on the internet but locally as well. We had three new people show up to our local warhammer night in as many weeks. 

[Captain Dob Van Dwi]

Border Princes obviously! It's basically a play ground for writers like me.

Also, more potential for fresh, recast or rebranded mercenaries is always good. A fresh take of DoW even? Eh, who knows.

[FVC]

1. Are you in to Kislev, interested in getting into Kislev newly or again, and are you planning for this if anything?

I'm definitely interested in Kislev in the abstract, though I'm not a big fan of the new art direction for them. If there are exciting new models I could see myself picking some up, but I think I'll probably customise and adapt them to fit my tastes. It's just a matter of adjusting the dials somewhat to my tastes: no Ice Witch archers, please, and minimal bear cavalry, but some of the infantry and conventional cavalry look great. I might treat Kislev the same way I treat the Empire, which is to say playing down the newer and more fantastic elements (e.g. demigryphs, luminark/hurricanum, etc.) while putting more focus on the parts that I find the coolest.

2.  Are you into the Border Princes, interested in getting into it newly or again, and what are you planning for this?

I'm not sure how much there really is to add here. The Border Princes were always intended as a blank space of the map for your own campaigns. I'll check out GW's material on them, but I'll treat it as a smorgasboard. The Border Princes are always changing: take what's useable or interesting, discard the rest.

3.  Are you into Cathay, interested in getting into it newly or again, and what are you planning for this?

I've been pretty disappointed with the Cathay material so far. I like a lot of the aesthetics of the core troops, but I hate the dragon-gods. As with Kislev, I could see myself using some models or background here, but I'm probably altering the rest to my tastes, and in particular retconning out the dragons. There's a lot of cool stuff I might do with Fantasy China in Warhammer, but what I've seen here is a mixture of material I like and can use and material that I definitely won't use. So I think I'll mostly pick over the official material like a scavenger.

4.  Looks like the Empire will be featured as the Time of Three Kingdoms, and are you doing anything new in looking forward to getting back?

More Empire material is always good, and what I'd really like to see here is some focus on provincial and historical armies. Hopefully the format of a Forge World spin-off game, like 40k's Heresy line, will allow some more distinctions to be made between Imperial forces, especially if the Old World line is focused on, well, the Old World and doesn't have to worry about elves or lizardmen or Chaos or the like. Unique models and lists for Ottilian, Ulrican, and Electorate armies, for instance, would be amazing.

[Gankom]

I'm cautiously excited about all of it in general. Kislev especially as I've already worked it into my homebrew setting. Cathay is an interesting choice and will likely boil down to cost compared to other things I like. Border Princes... maybe. I really liked how it was an area designed for Your Dude. From what I've read they seem to have balanced a way to keep that while also adding detail, which I'm a fan of. But we'll see how it plays out in practice.

Really I moved onto my homebrew setting over a decade ago, so I'm really just looking for material to work into that as I see fit.

[Captain Dob Van Dwi]

1. Are you in to Kislev, interested in getting into Kislev newly or again, and are you planning for this if anything?

I'm definitely interested in Kislev in the abstract, though I'm not a big fan of the new art direction for them. If there are exciting new models I could see myself picking some up, but I think I'll probably customise and adapt them to fit my tastes. It's just a matter of adjusting the dials somewhat to my tastes: no Ice Witch archers, please, and minimal bear cavalry, but some of the infantry and conventional cavalry look great. I might treat Kislev the same way I treat the Empire, which is to say playing down the newer and more fantastic elements (e.g. demigryphs, luminark/hurricanum, etc.) while putting more focus on the parts that I find the coolest.

Oh? What don't you like about the new Kislev art? Granted the concept art for the new kossars/archers weapons is... not great but I haven't seen anything to odd with the style so far.

[FVC]

Oh? What don't you like about the new Kislev art? Granted the concept art for the new kossars/archers weapons is... not great but I haven't seen anything to odd with the style so far.

Too high magic for me - too fantastical. It feels like it belongs in Age of Sigmar, not Warhammer.

Take, for instance, that unit of Ice Witch archers. That's like having an entire unit of Damsels of the Lady or Empire Battle Wizards as a regiment, and it feels wrong. Or the bear cavalry, to me, feel too much like demigryph knights. I prefer to keep my Old World a bit more grounded.

There are good elements, but if you prefer a Kislev that you more-or-less get in Realm of the Ice Queen or in McNeill's Ambassador Chronicles, I think the new material is tacking away from that. The End Times Kislev novella, With Ice and Sword, is fantastic, and the new material - both for the Old World and for Total War - feels like a different world or different genre to me.

So I'll probably use and rescue the basic troops, but there are parts that I will ignore, I think.

[Victor]

Oh? What don't you like about the new Kislev art? Granted the concept art for the new kossars/archers weapons is... not great but I haven't seen anything to odd with the style so far.

Too high magic for me - too fantastical. It feels like it belongs in Age of Sigmar, not Warhammer.

These are exactly my thoughts. Using a cooking metaphor: the fantasy elements should be the "seasoning" and not a main ingredient. Too much and the whole thing becomes unenjoyable.

The previews of those Kislev troops have certainly reduced my hopes for this new Warhammer setting.

[Michael Stockin]

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[Zygmund]

Hear hear!

For me, the 8th ed magic wagons and semi-chaotic monstrosities were already too much. Also the 8th ed gamey mechanics made a 4th lvl wizard an auto-include, and often a winning condition. Same for the pope wagon. So you saw armies with practically half the points in these gadgets and characters and unit choices. A very prominent change from what the Empire used to be.

Much of the new Kislev stuff seen so far seems to follow this vein, and that makes me vary.

Options are good, but I don't like it when the writing, units and game mechanics are made to over-emphasize the magical nature of warfare. It makes me feel steel & gunpowder & faith & the ordinary trooper are secondary in the setting and in the game.

-Z

[GamesPoet]

Ok, lets not make this thread, and for that matter, lets not make every thread, into a what we don't like about the new Kislev art.  My suspicion is we can whine about it if we'd like form time to time, maybe even set up thread that allows for us to whine's about it, yet GW is going to do what they want to do, we've seen that happen before.

This is a thread about what are you into, and preparing for with the seemingly impending re-release of the Olde World.

[brr-icy]

Re: the bear cavalry, weren't they mentioned to exist in 6th's little army book? Those I am definitely in for even to replace the regular gryphon legion to make them stand out, put them on 50x50 and double the wounds and use them in 6th lol. only need 3 or 6 then.

There's a glimmer of hope for the new game, and it boils down to the competency of the rule writers. If it's fun, and the setting is decent (can't go too futuristic as it's supposed to go back in time, not forward for example)

[Zygmund]

I do have a stash of old Britains brown bear and polar bear toys, extra bodies of Kislev riders and even a choice of bases set aside for a Kislev bear cavalry project. Without magical crystals. 

-Z

[GamesPoet]

If the rules aren't what someone likes, than the rules can be adjusted and some re-write them to suit one's own play style.

I definitely like the idea of Kislev bear riders.  I could see them as mercenaries, too.  Like say in the Border Princes.  Cathay ... not so much.

Probably wouldn't mix them into my Averland army, but I am rethinking my lack of Demi-Griff riders.

[Jmash]

How excited I get about new releases will be very much dependent on the scale creep. If new models make my current army look like weedy teenagers that will curb my enthusiasm.

This ^^^

This cannot be overstated. If they're incompatible (or look ridiculous) next to the original stuff it will kill the entire venture, especially for the returning enthusiasts at least.

[Captain Dob Van Dwi]

How excited I get about new releases will be very much dependent on the scale creep. If new models make my current army look like weedy teenagers that will curb my enthusiasm.

This ^^^

This cannot be overstated. If they're incompatible (or look ridiculous) next to the original stuff it will kill the entire venture, especially for the returning enthusiasts at least.

I agree.

[FVC]

Re: the bear cavalry, weren't they mentioned to exist in 6th's little army book? Those I am definitely in for even to replace the regular gryphon legion to make them stand out, put them on 50x50 and double the wounds and use them in 6th lol. only need 3 or 6 then.

The 6th edition mini-list didn't have bear cavalry in it, but it did have Tzar Boris as a special character and he rode a bear.

Which, for the record, I have no problem with. That's a single monstrous bear, it's ridden by a single special character, and that's fine. That's good seasoning, to use Victor's metaphor. If the Empire has the odd griffin and Bretonnia has the odd hippogriff, I can't very well object to Kislev having the odd magical giant bear. In that case I'm particularly okay with it because it comes in the context of Boris' strong link to the Cult of Ursun, and the bear is definitely special. The bear has a name, Urskin, and it's almost like a divine blessing, to the extent that in With Ice and Sword it returns at the last moments, before the Kislevites' final, doomed charge into the Chaos ranks:

The beasts roared as a single rider on a dark horse moved to the head of this host of beasts and daemons. He carried a rippling banner, its sigil that of a clawed hand tearing down an icy crown, the banner of her father’s killer.

‘Feydaj,’ said Wrodzik, his hands balling to fists. A towering brute of a creature with ruddy skin and a single, unblinking eye lumbered into sight alongside the hetzar. An enormous menhir was lashed to its back, a tapered stone encrusted with ancient sigils.

‘Ursun’s teeth!’ the Ice Queen said.

‘Yha, it’s a big bastard, right so,’ agreed Wrodzik.

‘No. That stone it’s carrying,’ said Katarin. ‘It is one of the stones from Urszebya.’

The roaring of beasts grew louder at the sight of the hetzar and the giant beast. They bellowed their blood-challenge, baring their chests, stamping their hooves and thrusting their horns.

And that challenge was answered.

A thunderous roar echoed from the summit of Tor’s hill.

It came from within the abandoned tower.

Lancers wheeled their terrified mounts away from its arched entrance as something enormously ancient and powerful lumbered from within. Its shoulders rolled with vast muscles, its thick fur pale as winter’s first ice. Its body was enormous, easily the biggest creature anyone gathered on the hill had ever seen, with fangs like tusks and claws like ebon daggers.

‘It can’t be…’ said Wrodzik.

The enormous white bear stood on its hind legs and roared again. The monsters below quailed before its raw power.

Katarin’s heart leapt to see her father’s bear once again.

‘Urskin,’ she said.



They charged from Tor’s hill, a thousand warriors with lances lowered and wing banners shrieking. They rode into history, following their radiant queen and the great white bear of her father.

The ground shook to the hoofbeats of their painted steeds as the soul of Kislev rose up alongside its people.

The dark winds blowing from the north were snuffed out.

The rains turned to snow.

And a blizzard of unimaginable ferocity swept over the walls of Erengrad. The High City froze solid as the Ice Queen’s magic gave the winter spirits of the steppe piercing form and fury. Sleeting blades of razor-edged hail tore through the forest beasts as Kislev’s doomed lancers smashed into their midst.

A rolling crash of swords and splintering lances burst upon the followers of the Dark Gods as the Ice Queen and Urskin cut a path through the snowstorm towards Hetzar Feydaj.

The blizzard engulfed Erengrad and the swirling darkness.

It rages still.

That's pretty amazing, right? That's excellent and it's my favourite tone for Kislev.

So a bear for the tzar, sure. Great blessed bears as a special hero mount? Sure. I just don't want them to be too common or they lose their magic. The same with Ice Witches, actually. I don't think Katarin should be the only one, but I think they should be restricted to heroes and lords.

Anyway, more and better Winged Lancer models would make me very happy, so here's hoping!