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Author Topic: Firing a cannon 6th ED vs 7ED diagrams  (Read 253 times)

Offline azrael88

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Firing a cannon 6th ED vs 7ED diagrams
« on: March 17, 2022, 08:27:03 AM »
Hello guys,
Please help me understand a matter that looks quite simple but is a little confusing to me :)

Firing a cannon - a flying ball. It lands on the spot (guess + art dice) and bounces (hopefully). Diagram in 6th ed rulebook indicates a cannonball flying a straight line.
Diagram in 7th ed rulebook shows a different situation when a target is hit in front arc and when it's hit in flank. It looks like when hitting the flank of a unit a cannonball "turns" to align with rank & file troops.

Is there a difference between 6th and 7th ed? Or I am just completely wrong?

Offline Fidelis von Sigmaringen

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Re: Firing a cannon 6th ED vs 7ED diagrams
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2022, 08:55:50 AM »
The cannon works in both editions in exactly the same way: the cannon ball travels in a straight line, and every model under that line is hit. However, in ranked-up units, only one model per rank can be hit, even if more models in the same rank would be under the line. If the cannon is in the flank of the target, files will count as ranks.

The (single) 6th edition diagram depicts the simplest situation, in which only one model per rank is under the line anyway; the two 7th edition diagrams  clarify the rule better, by depicting situations where several models in the same rank are under the line, one of which will be actually hit.

And welcome to the forum!
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Offline azrael88

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Re: Firing a cannon 6th ED vs 7ED diagrams
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2022, 09:25:40 AM »
OK, now I understand, thank you!

One more question, what happens if, by accident, a lone character lurks behind a unit that was hit by a cannonball? And the cannonball bounces right on his head?

Offline Fidelis von Sigmaringen

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Re: Firing a cannon 6th ED vs 7ED diagrams
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2022, 10:02:31 AM »
He is hit too.
It is not enough to have no ideas of your own; you must also be incapable of expressing them.
Sex, lies and manuscripts: The History of the Empire as Depicted in the Art of the Time (10/07/16)

Offline azrael88

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Re: Firing a cannon 6th ED vs 7ED diagrams
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2022, 10:37:09 AM »
Now everything is clear, thanks once again good Sir.

Offline Fidelis von Sigmaringen

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Re: Firing a cannon 6th ED vs 7ED diagrams
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2022, 12:18:17 PM »
We serve to please and please to serve.  :smile2:
It is not enough to have no ideas of your own; you must also be incapable of expressing them.
Sex, lies and manuscripts: The History of the Empire as Depicted in the Art of the Time (10/07/16)

Offline azrael88

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Re: Firing a cannon 6th ED vs 7ED diagrams
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2022, 12:49:07 PM »
When shooting cannon at a unit of skirmishers, how many models can take a hit? All under the cannonball line ot just one? Skirmishers do not form a ranks and rule for a cannon says only one model per rank can be hit.

Next question, a character model joined skirmishing unit and is at the rear "rank" of skirmishing models. A cannonball flies through a ordinary trooper first and a hero behind him. Can a hero be hit?

Offline Fidelis von Sigmaringen

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Re: Firing a cannon 6th ED vs 7ED diagrams
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2022, 03:30:41 PM »
The 6th edition does not specifically address this. Hence, normal rules apply, and all Skirmisher models under the template are hit. As it happens, this is as such specified for Skirmishers and war machine crew by the 7th edition BRB.

The character can be hit, but if he is in a unit of 5 R&F models of similar size, he gets the benefit of the "Look out, Sir!" special rule (6th BRB p. 100).
It is not enough to have no ideas of your own; you must also be incapable of expressing them.
Sex, lies and manuscripts: The History of the Empire as Depicted in the Art of the Time (10/07/16)

Offline azrael88

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Re: Firing a cannon 6th ED vs 7ED diagrams
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2022, 03:52:18 PM »
Ok, but literally taking the rules, skirmishers have one rank for shooting purposes. Direwolf FAQ address this issue regarding bolt thrower shooting skirmishers and only one model can be hit. I just try to persuade a friend of mine it's the same as 7ed rules, where it's clearly written that all skirmishers in the cannonball line are hit.

What's more : normal rules for cannon say its one model per rank, skirmishers have only one rank. It's his logic.

EDIT
as you said, BRB page 100 : a character model who is part of a unit of five or more RANK AND File models gets Look out Sir! Literally skirmishers are not rank and file so no Look out Sir?
« Last Edit: June 26, 2022, 03:57:51 PM by azrael88 »

Offline Fidelis von Sigmaringen

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Re: Firing a cannon 6th ED vs 7ED diagrams
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2022, 04:41:13 PM »
A bolt thrower works different from a cannon: unlike the cannon, it does not hit any model in its path, but specifically penetrates ranks.

In spite of the name "rank & file troops," it has nothing to do with being actually positioned in ranks and files. It means "ordinary troops,"  as opposed to characters, monsters, chariots, war machines etc. 

It is not enough to have no ideas of your own; you must also be incapable of expressing them.
Sex, lies and manuscripts: The History of the Empire as Depicted in the Art of the Time (10/07/16)

Offline azrael88

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Re: Firing a cannon 6th ED vs 7ED diagrams
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2022, 08:53:52 PM »
Ok. 7th edition BRB has clear definition of infantry, and also defines ranks and files (there are appropriate diagrams) contrary to 6th Ed BRB. And it still says that skirmishers are not rank and file...

Offline Fidelis von Sigmaringen

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Re: Firing a cannon 6th ED vs 7ED diagrams
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2022, 09:07:34 PM »
No, they state that Skirmishers have no ranks nor files. That does not prohibit them from being rank and file troops. Two different things. As it says in the OED: "rank and file n. the ordinary members of an organisation, as opposed to its leaders."

It is not enough to have no ideas of your own; you must also be incapable of expressing them.
Sex, lies and manuscripts: The History of the Empire as Depicted in the Art of the Time (10/07/16)

Offline azrael88

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Re: Firing a cannon 6th ED vs 7ED diagrams
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2022, 06:26:59 AM »
Thank you, now I get the picture :)