Topic: Luminark or not to Luminark, that is the question!

[Krudenwald]

Well said, tlabean.

[MarkoV]

That actually is a rather nice combo....together with the witch hunter 4+ ward save vs magic.

2 witch hunters = 2 regiments with WS4+ and potential DeathStar with 3+. Think about that

[Fidelis von Sigmaringen]

I guess, as so often, it depends on your playing style: defensive > Luminark; offensive > Hurricanum.

[Holy Hand Grenade]

I have messed around with both the Hurri and Lumi and prefer the Luminark.

The extra DD helps out with much needed magic defense, the 6+ save protects our more expensive troops, the bound spell is great against regen baddies, but the big reason is that I find the Luminark receives a lot less attention than the Hurri. 

My Hurri always seemed to be high on my opponent's targeting list and usually died before providing any benefits to hit in CC.  The Lumis benefits are more subtle...and it usually survives the battle when I use it.  It doesn't pay for itself in "kills," but in its ability to "save" other points and survive.

[strollinthewoods]

Use both, and the Luminark is my favourite.  And a strange thing it is to.. because If you try to decide on paper before playing, and only ever is going to field 1 wagon, the hurricanum is the one you most likely would end up with.

Oh, and having movable parts is actually very very fun.. at least I do find it fun nudging that laser beam thingy before rolling them dice.

[Drmooreflava]

I will pose an argument against those who say the luminark is better, because the hurricanum is much better 

First of all, +1 to hit is insanely good. Especially on greatswords with a warrior priest in them. Secondly with WS4 swordsman, greatswords and knights(not that they will be in range very often) you will be hitting anything that is WS3 on a 2+  That is fricken insane for statetroops to be able to hit so well vs such a large percentage of the units in the warhammer world. JUST THINK ABOUT IT, vs WS4 enemies your guys will be getting hit on a 4+ (assuming they don't have any modifiers) and you will be hitting on a 3+. So not only do you rock vs low ws enemies but you also CAN hold your own against elite enemies 

Off the bat, with nothing other than +1 to hit, I'd say that the hurricanum beats the lunimark with all of its perks  A 6+ ward save really isn't useful and is redundant in combat when you use swordsmen, the warrior priest 5+ward buff or in shooting when you have an ironcurse icon. The only time I'd say the luminark is better is when you know you are coming up against a heavy magic/shooting army of gunline proportions and even then it is barely worth it.

+1 PD is great, Idk what you fools are smoking. The +1 DD is nice too; however, I have had many magic phases in which my opponent has gotten an irrisistable spell off and lost the rest of his dice due to the miscast, making my # powerdice count for nothing at all. So IMO 1PD is better than 1DD.

I'm not too keen on what the spells do  but I know that they won't be a priority over whatever lore my wizard takes, regardless, The spell on the hurricanum/luminark isn't the reason I'd choose one over the other because it usually won't make a large impact in the game 

So, my question is, who doesn't want their greatswords/swordsmen hitting on 3+ vs everything less than ws9?? For sigmar's sake they will be hitting Graveguard on a 2+!!! I understand, people choose halberds and spears too, but even with them you are hitting all infantry(barring swordmasters, whitelions and chosen) on 3's!

The hurricanum's +1 to hit is absolutely huge guys  If you run an infantry based combat army, you NEED one of these... Like staple it in there.
6+ wardsave is just meh... It is only worth it when you are taking on huge volumes of attacks/templates 

[Holy Hand Grenade]

All the reasons you mentioned Doctor are why you opponent is going to kill it.

[Akbar]

On the other hand, if your opponent isn´t interested in killing your unit, do you really think it is worth taking?

[Holy Hand Grenade]

On the other hand, if your opponent isn´t interested in killing your unit, do you really think it is worth taking?

Don't infer that I mean the Lumi isn't worth killing.

The issue here is that when something is REALLY good, your opponent is stupid if he doesn't put taking it out a high priority.  Some things just have to die...and I would put the Hurri in that category.

If I was playing against an Empire army with a Hurri, it would die right before my opponent starting drooling at the mouth about getting his +1 to hit in an upcoming CC...

[Akbar]

So, you think The Hurri is better, but you prefer Lumi because it´s less likely to attract attention. Well, that´s a valid point I suppose.

[Holy Hand Grenade]

So, you think The Hurri is better, but you prefer Lumi because it´s less likely to attract attention. Well, that´s a valid point I suppose.

Aye. 

But to add on to this-  even though the Lumis benefits are more subtle, they are still powerful.  It is worth every point you spend on it. 

In my opinion, both the Hurri and the Lumi are valid, not-too-expensive choices to field. 

[Drmooreflava]

So if the opponent focuses on the hurricanum with magic/shooting, does that count as a defensive bonus to the hurricanum because it is keeping your other troops alive?

Not all armies have an imediate counter to a hurricanum and it has decent stats... lets be honest it is no corpse cart 

As a question to players that have built the model, is it buildable while also being able to switch out the pieces for either option? Kind of like 40k dreadnought etc....

[Orcslayer]

I have always been a man to take warrior priests in my hordeded units, and because my units have hatred a large percentage of their attacks will hit.

30 halberd attacks with hatred vs WS 3
15 hits normally + 7.5 from hatred= 21.5 (we'll always round up like a boss) so 22 hits

30 Halberds with hatred and a hurricanum vs WS 3
20 hits normally + 5 from hatred = 25 hits.

I can't see spending 130 points for three extra hits. The Luminark adds an element of combat survivability to our mostly defenseless soldiers, and it provides our units with some defense against shooting and direct damage spells. For me, only the Luminark makes sense.

[Drmooreflava]

@ Orcslayer...
 You will actually be getting more than 5 more hits from hatred rerolls because your rerolls will be hitting on 3+.

The +1 to hit is better than you are giving it credit.

[Eighty]

I think this is a good discussion to have, at first i couldnt imagine not bringing my hurricanum. Now, im considering bringing both!

[Orcslayer]

@ Orcslayer...
 You will actually be getting more than 5 more hits from hatred rerolls because your rerolls will be hitting on 3+.

The +1 to hit is better than you are giving it credit.

Indeed, I missed that. Alright so it would net 20 hits normally + 7 hits from the hatred. Giving you a total of five extra hits.

[Drmooreflava]

It might not sound like a big deal, but with swordsmen and other ws4 units in our army can hit ws3 enemies on a 2+. So with hatred you should be hitting with nearly every attack which is HUGE for S3 swordsmen because now your chances of wounding more enemies is staggeringly high. I think that the hurricanums combat boost is really helpful for Empire when you are up against enemy units that outclass your state troops because you might actually be able to hold your own. I know I've already said this in an earlier post, but the diff between hitting on 3s and sometimes on 2s is so much more of a battle advantage than a meesly 6+ ward. And again like I said earlier there are lots of ways to get 6+ wards.

Regardless, I want to battle test both of these and find out the best kind of army to build around either one of these. Obviously halberds should go with the luminark because they have the least armor out of the statetroops. I think spearmen are a toss up because they benefic a lot from the hurricanum as well as the luminark; however, it is very clear that swordsmen have an awesome synergy with the hurricanum because of their WS4 and I would say the same for greatswords and knights as well.

On the topic of knights getting these buffs, I think when you get the chance to give knights +1 to hit, give it to them. A 6+ just isn't needed when you have a 1+ armor save. Some of my worst memories as a brett player way back in the day was rubber lancing and then fleeing...

I think the luminark has great synergy with shooting armies because of the spell and the 6+ ward bubble will be easy to maintain efficiently cuz you will have less units moving in different directions.

What do you guys think about flaggellants + luminark? They really need that 6+ save and you know they are going to fight to the last man which means they are a perfect unit to put the lumnark behind.

[Orcslayer]

What do you guys think about flaggellants + luminark? They really need that 6+ save and you know they are going to fight to the last man which means they are a perfect unit to put the lumnark behind.

To me, flaggies have always been glass cannons, who's sole purpose in life is to ram their faces into something big and scary, put a dent (Sigmar willing even kill it), and die in droves. The 6++ doesn't even start to prevent them from dieing in droves, so that extra +1 to hit might just be better. Lordy I need some starbursts for all my self-contradicting in this thread.

[Drmooreflava]

I think we are making progress... 

[Lord Solar Plexus]

I know I've already said this in an earlier post, but the diff between hitting on 3s and sometimes on 2s is so much more of a battle advantage than a meesly 6+ ward.

I've already said that the difference between a 6++ and a measly +1 to hit is immense. The problem is, neither of us has provided anything but adjectives.

If you need to hit weak enemies on 2's, be my guest. I'd rather survive the attacks from elites to strike back at all!

[satch]

The hurricanum's aura is better because it stacks, +1 stacks with alot of the spells, lowering WS from miasma makes you hit on 2s, hurricanum + enchanted blades makes you hit on 2s even if your a lower WS (funky) but there are not many if any spells that synergies with a 6++ the WP's spell simply overrides it

[Drmooreflava]

+1 snatch

[Padre]

You snatched satch, Drmooreflava. Weird.

[satch]

I dont really want to be Snatached thank you very much!!

[Drmooreflava]

I've got +1 to hit from the hurricanum..

Consider yourself snatched!