Topic: Use of Reserves

[FriscoEmpire]

Historically, in just about every pitched battle, each side has some kind of Reserve in place that the general can then throw into the battle where he needs them.

My wargaming friends and I are going to start prepping a separate 250-point (or 500-point) "Reserve" list for each battle, with the idea that it can't come into play until at least the 3rd turn. 

We're trying to work up cool rules for how these Reserves would function.  Here's what we've got so far:

1.) Unlike normal reinforcements, a Reserve force should be able to enter right at the start of the Movement Phase, and even declare a Charge if there's an enemy within range.  When it does enter, it starts with its back against the table edge but then functions just as if it had been there all along (which makes sense, since it would have been watching the battle in front of it, awaiting orders to enter the fray).  This means it can move as normal, charge as normal, march as normal, shoot as normal, etc.

2.) The Reserve must contain a full command and must be "bunkered" either in the center or to either flank — not on the table, but declared in one of those positions at the start of the 2nd turn.  (Each player would write down on a piece of paper where their Reserve is positioned, and flip it over when it comes time to send in the Reserve.)  The idea here would be that the General should be able to see the battle begin to unfold before sending word to his Reserve on where to align themselves behind his lines.

3.) It's gotta make sense for it to be able to actually reach something to fight for it to be sent in.  So in order for the Reserve to enter the battle, there must be an enemy within 48 inches of where it would enter the table if it enters at Turn 3, an enemy within 36 inches if it enters Turn 4, an enemy within 24 inches if it enters Turn 5, and an enemy within 12 inches if it enters Turn 6. 

4.) The enemy should reasonably be able to spy out a massed reserve in the distance, so they would know if they were infantry or cavalry for instance, but they wouldn't know much more about them than that.  To reflect this, the players wouldn't have to reveal their Reserve list (including any special characters or magic items its carrying), only the kind of troop and the size (in points).  Other than that, it remains something of a mystery until it hits the field.

Does that sound workable?  Any suggestions on improving it?

[Padre]

I really like the idea.

You could have a rule that if a player wanted to change where his unit enters the field, he can re-write the left/centre/right instruction on his piece of paper, but that if he does so the unit cannot enter the field until turn 4 rather than turn 3 (perhaps also with a 5 or 6 chance on a D6 of being delayed further - until 5th turn). This would simulate orders hastily sent to the reserve to re-position.

If you did add this in, perhaps you might also changing the basic rule to state that the reserve's position has to be declared at the start the battle and not turn turn 2?

If I was to use your system, I think I'd like this change just to add another dimension.

[Siberius]

I wonder whether the unit should start with it's front at the board edge. Less open to abuse from trying to expand your depth. Course if it is a friendly atmosphere that shouldn't be so much of a problem...

[Wigmar]

You could have the reserve standing on the edge of the table, as a regular unit without movement. Then it would be subject to magic and shooting, if within range of the opponent, but still out of combat. The reserve wouldn't be secret, but maybe that's not a problem?

[FriscoEmpire]

I like Padre's suggestion of declaring in writing, at the start of the game, which part of the board you'll enter, but then with the option of changing your mind at the expense of A.) coming in a turn later than normal, and B.) risking a roll of 5+ that will force you to wait yet another turn.

That's a nice touch.

I'm still uncertain whether it's better to play it like this (with some secrecy as to what you've got and where and where it will make its appearance) or to have to actually stick the reserve on the field from the start.

The problem with sticking it on the field to start is that it's then just basically another chunk of troops on the board.  I think the excitement of being able to keep your Reserve a secret until it marches in, combined with the worry about when and what and where your opponent will march his in — that's where the excitement will come from. 

Imagine: you've lured your opponent into combat and tar-pitted them ... knowing your infantry is going to be taking a beating and could even be about to collapse on your left flank . . . when suddenly the Reserve cavalry charges in to take the enemy in their flank and hurls them into the center of the board where you can run them down and destroy them to a man, and freeing your infantry to swing around their position, forcing them to re-form and giving your artillery another round to hammer down on them from on high . . .

It could make for some dynamic exploits. 

[FriscoEmpire]

I wonder if any experienced Warhammer generals playing larger games (2500 points or higher, say) keep particular units in reserve as part of their core strategy. 

Something you deliberately refrain from committing in the first round or two and then deploy as needed.

But with games usually only lasting six rounds ... something kept in reserve might never make it to where it needs to be, or might have accomplished more had it been thrown into the battle from the outset.

I don't know.  It would be good to hear from some of the more experienced Empire players on this.

[MarkoV]

Whoa, are you......(dramatic music) changing the rules and then talk about that here? In most sacred temple of "lets follow book to oblivion and beyound"? Prep to be harrased )

And about your question: Good one, i might steal it! Would you mind?

[FriscoEmpire]

I know a couple of my friends and I plan to start making this "Reserves" system part of our standard approach with most of our games for a while.  After play-testing it half a dozen times we should have a feel for whether it's worth using or not.  I think it's going to be a lot of fun.

[MrAbyssal]

Whoa, are you......(dramatic music) changing the rules and then talking about that here? In th emost sacred temple of "lets follow the rulebook to oblivion and beyond"? Prepare to be harassed )

And about your question: Good one, I might steal it! Would you mind?

None of us have a problem with people changing the rules. He's asking for advice on a rule change and is trying to make it fluffy and still work mechanically. Even LSP, Noght and Fidelis wouldn't have issues with that. Some of us do have problems with people asking for advice but then advising that their house rules make the majority of our possible advice useless, instead of providing all relevant information such as said house rules when they initially ask for advice.

[Darknight]

Whoa, are you......(dramatic music) changing the rules and then talking about that here? In th emost sacred temple of "lets follow the rulebook to oblivion and beyond"? Prepare to be harassed )

And about your question: Good one, I might steal it! Would you mind?

None of us have a problem with people changing the rules. He's asking for advice on a rule change and is trying to make it fluffy and still work mechanically. Even LSP, Noght and Fidelis wouldn't have issues with that. Some of us do have problems with people asking for advice but then advising that their house rules make the majority of our possible advice useless, instead of providing all relevant information such as said house rules when they initially ask for advice.

Yeah, +1 to this.

[Zygmund]

I wonder if any experienced Warhammer generals playing larger games (2500 points or higher, say) keep particular units in reserve as part of their core strategy.

In general, I think the Warhammer table is too cramped and the game time too short for intelligent use of reserves. It often happens that one or two units get distracted a bit (because of deployment or game flow), and enter the final fray a round or two after the others. That's as close to reserves I can think of, given the present rules, unit sizes & time.

Then there are scenario games and objective games, which may include rules for reinforcements, or suggest that a unit or two need to be kept guarding an objective.

But with games usually only lasting six rounds ... something kept in reserve might never make it to where it needs to be, or might have accomplished more had it been thrown into the battle from the outset.

I don't know.  It would be good to hear from some of the more experienced Empire players on this.

The basic game is not built to include reinforcements in a meaningful manner. Scenarios a different thing. Also, if you play on a larger table (6' x 8'), leaving room for maneuvres & battlelines, and allowing for longer games (say, 8 to 10 rounds), you might use reinforcements.

That said, I really fancy your effort on building a reinforcement system.    I've done something similar myself, but use it only for friendly games in campaigns, where the back story often implies which units make to the battlefield first, and which just can't reach the action until close to the end.

-Z

[Holy Hand Grenade]

Something else that might be fun to try would be different "waves" of reinforcements.

In the scenario, the armies are trying to hurry up and control an objective and are sending units as fast as they can.  Something like 1000 per wave with 3 waves total for a 3000 point game.  The game would probably have to be more than 6 turns to work out well.

It could be a "king of the hill" scenario-  gaining VPs for having more forces on the objective (or some other point system where VPs dont matter at all!)

Another twist that just came to mind-  the faster the unit the quicker it makes it to the battle.  Early rounds would be Scouts and Cavalry while the ground-pounder heavies get to the field last.  Would make list building interesting...

It could be a nice long fight with lots of beer consumed!
 

[FriscoEmpire]

I like the idea of waves.  That makes me think this would be really cool variant:  You have to build a legal 3,000-point army.  But you only field 1500 points at the beginning.  These have to fight and prepare the way during the first two rounds.  At the start of each round after that, you can bring in any of your remaining three 500-point waves.  (Both players bring them in at the start of round 3, 4, and 5, each deploying along the edge anywhere on his side of the board.)