Topic: feedback on lore of beasts + cheap chars

[csjarrat]

hi guys, seen a few threads recently about lore of beasts for empire.
i ran a concept list last night against HE comprised of:

GoTE, griff, bloodroar, +1S sword, 1+,5++
Wizard lord on Peg (beasts) 4++

BSB (mounted)
priest (mounted) x2
captain (mounted)

x10 ICK (lances)
x10 knights (gw)
x20 xbows

x3 demi
x3 demi

hbvg
stank

Spells:
flock of doom (predictably crappy, failed to wound a single time in 3 castings)
savage beast (got this off in bubble form twice, it was lethal!!)
Panns pelt (didnt cast this once)
wysanns (had to trade in trasnformation of kadon, performed admirably as usual on knights)

HE list:
lvl4 on horse, annulian crystal (life)
lvl1 on foot, scroll (high)
bsb on foot

x30 spears
x2 12 archers

x20 lions
x20 PG
x10 SH
lion chariot

x2 eagles

it was a massive win for the empire!

re: wizard on pegasus;
i was able to keep him out of harms way (behind units + trees) for long enough that he managed to survive the game with only one wound taken from arrow fire. there were enough modifiers for range + cover that they were never hitting on better than 5's, wounding on 5's and then saving on 6+/4++
the mobility was excellent, he needed to keep up with the knight buses and flying general and i never had any issues. solo on a barded horse (near the cav units) could work for LoS and 5+/4++ too.

re: beasts;
the lore for me basically revolved around using my priests to draw DD and then slinging most of my dice at the bubbled savage beast in the same way as you do for dwellers in life, or okkams in shadow.
i found that the priest buffs synergise pretty well with this lore, being able to get your cavalry buses to t4 1+/5++ with all the other benefits meant that i didnt lose a single combat (though i did roll on average 6-7 dice per turn)
the character boosts are pretty nice, the cavalry characters and general were even chewing through pheonix guard with the buffs, and my general chopped up his bsb in a challenge whilst under the spell (6A, S8 is pretty sweet!)
man is flock of doom lame though. i would def have traded it in had i not rolled up transformation of kadon.

obviously i might be reporting that it went terribly had i rolled snake-eyes on the crucial combat turn for winds of magic, so this approach has its limitations. if you dont get savage beast, you're pretty boned too. might be an idea to combine it with a lvl1/2 to make sure you get the spells you need.
disclaimer: i deliberately ran it against elves as S4 on a character isnt too bad against a T3 army. it might not fare well against anything tougher if you dont get your spells off.

[The Peacemaker]

obviously i might be reporting that it went terribly had i rolled snake-eyes on the crucial combat turn for winds of magic, so this approach has its limitations. if you dont get savage beast, you're pretty boned too. might be an idea to combine it with a lvl1/2 to make sure you get the spells you need.

Rolling 6-7 dice for winds of magic is spot on average for 2d6. Rolling snake eyes is the worst luck but that's just part of the game. Its comparable to rolling 1's on your knights armour saves; crucial turn or not, Its a solid plan.

I agree with adding a level 1 or 2 wizard to the list. He adds as a scroll caddy and your already taking an archer bunker for him. And since he'll be on foot it even makes transformation of Kadon useable!

lol, I played a game against vamp counts where I was trying out a level 1 beasts wizzard. I was planning to just take the signature spell but my other wizzard rolled some really good spells that I knew I'd be throwing all my dice into. I got transformation of kadon and kept it. Turn 2 my other wizzard failed a casting attempt and I had 2 dice left, I figured what the hell, so I went for the big verson of kadon and got double 6's.
On the vamps turn he rolled low on the winds of magic and didn't have enough dice to dispel the dragon, and it also screwed up his resurrection spells. After that my dragon charged into combat and my opponent conceded.

[csjarrat]

obviously i might be reporting that it went terribly had i rolled snake-eyes on the crucial combat turn for winds of magic, so this approach has its limitations. if you dont get savage beast, you're pretty boned too. might be an idea to combine it with a lvl1/2 to make sure you get the spells you need.

Rolling 6-7 dice for winds of magic is spot on average for 2d6. Rolling snake eyes is the worst luck but that's just part of the game. Its comparable to rolling 1's on your knights armour saves; crucial turn or not, Its a solid plan.

I agree with adding a level 1 or 2 wizard to the list. He adds as a scroll caddy and your already taking an archer bunker for him. And since he'll be on foot it even makes transformation of Kadon useable!

lol, I played a game against vamp counts where I was trying out a level 1 beasts wizzard. I was planning to just take the signature spell but my other wizzard rolled some really good spells that I knew I'd be throwing all my dice into. I got transformation of kadon and kept it. Turn 2 my other wizzard failed a casting attempt and I had 2 dice left, I figured what the hell, so I went for the big verson of kadon and got double 6's.
On the vamps turn he rolled low on the winds of magic and didn't have enough dice to dispel the dragon, and it also screwed up his resurrection spells. After that my dragon charged into combat and my opponent conceded.

hehe nice! i've seen some sneaky uses of the remains in play rule as well with HE. they have a mage who can take 2 items to become ethereal + cancels magic weapons, so they transform + use ASF dragon attacks + breath weapon, then choose to end spell returning to the mage form with un-killable build.

re: winds, yeah i know, 6-8 is the average roll and its odd that you can bet on. i was just highlighting that a bad roll can screw your game, of course rolling poorly for saves can screw your day too, but rolling multiple ones is more rare than double ones.

[Joey_Boy]

Beasts is actually really good even if you don't roll Savage Beast. Both Amber Spear and Curse are ace spells that I always keep when I roll them. And Wildform is solid as ever when cast on knights/DGK. I'd even consider running GW knights if you have 2 Beast wizards since the T4, 2+/5++ is really solid and will help you out against other T4 armys if you get stuck in and have Savage beast dispelled. Then you still have a lot of hitting power and the T4 makes up for the drop in armor.   

[The Ol Perfesser]

Nice report.  Thanks for the list and the evaluation! 
I play against elves frequently and this is very helpful....
Thanks

[Borgio the Besieger]

I have been considering three level two mages with Lore of Beasts. I want to take Wyssan's on at least two of them. I would lose +2 to casting but I should have my choice of spells and the ability to cast Wyssan's more than once per phase and on multiple targets.

[Noght]

Just guessing but Plate (4+), mounted (3+), enchanted shield (1+).  White Cloak for 5++.

[Joey_Boy]

I have been considering three level two mages with Lore of Beasts. I want to take Wyssan's on at least two of them. I would lose +2 to casting but I should have my choice of spells and the ability to cast Wyssan's more than once per phase and on multiple targets.

The main problem with Lore of Beasts is that the casting cost of most spells you want to cast is 10. So with a lvl4 and the target being Cav/MC/monster you only need a 5+ to cast making it a comfortable 2d6 cast. With a lvl2 you would need 3d6 to have a better then 50-50 shoot at casting. I'd recommend a lvl4+lvl2 to be able to do multiple castings of the good spells.

[csjarrat]

Just guessing but Plate (4+), mounted (3+), enchanted shield (1+).  White Cloak for 5++.

yep! tis quite a nice set up, grants the griff a little protection in cc too

[Cursain]

hi guys, seen a few threads recently about lore of beasts for empire.
i ran a concept list last night against HE comprised of:

GoTE, griff, bloodroar, +1S sword, 1+,5++
Wizard lord on Peg (beasts) 4++

BSB (mounted)
priest (mounted) x2
captain (mounted)

x10 ICK (lances)
x10 knights (gw)
x20 xbows

x3 demi
x3 demi

hbvg
stank

Spells:
flock of doom (predictably crappy, failed to wound a single time in 3 castings)
savage beast (got this off in bubble form twice, it was lethal!!)
Panns pelt (didnt cast this once)
wysanns (had to trade in trasnformation of kadon, performed admirably as usual on knights)

HE list:
lvl4 on horse, annulian crystal (life)
lvl1 on foot, scroll (high)
bsb on foot

x30 spears
x2 12 archers

x20 lions
x20 PG
x10 SH
lion chariot

x2 eagles

it was a massive win for the empire!

re: wizard on pegasus;
i was able to keep him out of harms way (behind units + trees) for long enough that he managed to survive the game with only one wound taken from arrow fire. there were enough modifiers for range + cover that they were never hitting on better than 5's, wounding on 5's and then saving on 6+/4++
the mobility was excellent, he needed to keep up with the knight buses and flying general and i never had any issues. solo on a barded horse (near the cav units) could work for LoS and 5+/4++ too.

re: beasts;
the lore for me basically revolved around using my priests to draw DD and then slinging most of my dice at the bubbled savage beast in the same way as you do for dwellers in life, or okkams in shadow.
i found that the priest buffs synergise pretty well with this lore, being able to get your cavalry buses to t4 1+/5++ with all the other benefits meant that i didnt lose a single combat (though i did roll on average 6-7 dice per turn)
the character boosts are pretty nice, the cavalry characters and general were even chewing through pheonix guard with the buffs, and my general chopped up his bsb in a challenge whilst under the spell (6A, S8 is pretty sweet!)
man is flock of doom lame though. i would def have traded it in had i not rolled up transformation of kadon.

obviously i might be reporting that it went terribly had i rolled snake-eyes on the crucial combat turn for winds of magic, so this approach has its limitations. if you dont get savage beast, you're pretty boned too. might be an idea to combine it with a lvl1/2 to make sure you get the spells you need.
disclaimer: i deliberately ran it against elves as S4 on a character isnt too bad against a T3 army. it might not fare well against anything tougher if you dont get your spells off.

I've always wanted to build a list using the Swords of Bloodshed, Sword of Strife, Sword of Battle, Sword of Anti-Heros, Fencers Blades and Berzerker Sword for all the bonus attacks and then cast the enhanced version of Savage Beasts, just to rip things up

[Eighty]

hehe nice! i've seen some sneaky uses of the remains in play rule as well with HE. they have a mage who can take 2 items to become ethereal + cancels magic weapons, so they transform + use ASF dragon attacks + breath weapon, then choose to end spell returning to the mage form with un-killable build.

genius!

definitely think this is grade A cheese (A as in AWESOME). thanks for the beasts write up. ive been wanting to do an all cav list for a while, beasts might just be the lore for it

[The Peacemaker]

re: winds, yeah i know, 6-8 is the average roll and its odd that you can bet on. i was just highlighting that a bad roll can screw your game, of course rolling poorly for saves can screw your day too, but rolling multiple ones is more rare than double ones.

Whats even more funny is that in the game I described my vamp count opponent also took Master of the Black Arts in order to re-roll the winds of magic and still rolled horribly.

[csjarrat]

re: winds, yeah i know, 6-8 is the average roll and its odd that you can bet on. i was just highlighting that a bad roll can screw your game, of course rolling poorly for saves can screw your day too, but rolling multiple ones is more rare than double ones.

Whats even more funny is that in the game I described my vamp count opponent also took Master of the Black Arts in order to re-roll the winds of magic and still rolled horribly.

lol, re-rolls and bonuses sometimes bite you in the ass. i lost an absolute stack of mortars to misfires, even with the engy re-rolls! i began to think the engy was cursed at one point