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Offline Shadowwolf

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SUFFER Additional Steam Tank rules
« on: February 02, 2007, 02:20:39 PM »
Hello again!
Time for more SUFFER!  (Shadowwolf’s Unofficial, Fluffy, for Fun use, Extraordinary Rules)

This time, I've dug through all of the 6th edition Steam tank rules (see annual 2002 for the full 6th edition rules) and refitted them to fit the 7th edition Steam Tank, so this is mostly GW rules, but updated by me.

Feel free to copy or distribute any version or entry of the SUFFER and, if you do not like it, change it to your liking.

Any and all comments on these rules are appreciated, as it is the purpose of SUFFER to make the rules as good as possible!
Any and all suggestions are also welcome! Is there anything that needs more rules, an update to 7th edition or just some screwy completely new rules, feel free to post here and I'll have a look upon it!

If you try them out, please leave a comment!


Additional Steam tank Rules
These rules are designed to let players customize their steam tank, much like it was done in the 6th edition of warhammer.
All steam tank versions follow the basic rules for the Empire Steam Tank in the Empire army book.

How to use:
Simply add the SUFFER parts to the end of the existing text under the appropriate headline in the Steam Tank section.

STEAM TANK

Equipment.

The Steam Tank can be armed differently by replacing either the Steam gun turret, the hull main cannon, or both. The cost will vary with what weapons you purchase for the Steam Tank.
 
Steam Tank                                                        Pts cost              Additional wounds gained
Basic (Cannon and Steam gun)                                  300                                   +0
Additional boiler                                                      +25                                    +0
Hull weapon replacement      
Steam Tank Volley Gun                                            +25                                    +0
Siege Cannon                                                          +35                                   +0
No hull weapon                                                        -25                                    +1
Mortar (automatically selects no turret weapon)          -75                                    -2
Turret weapon replacement      
No turret weapon                                                     -25                                    +0
Fighting platform                                                     +95                                    +0
Handgunner Emplacement                                        +95                                    +0

Building up Steam Points

An additional boiler can be pulled on a wagon behind the Steam Tank, to give it some extra pressure. The additional boiler adds 1 steam point to the total of steam points loaded, but brings down the Steam Tank’s armour save to 3+, as the boiler system is now more vulnerable.


Shooting Phase

Volley Gun
The Steam Tank volley gun is a smaller version of von Meinkopt’s successfull invention, fitted to the hull of the tank. It may be fired upon targets in the front arc of the Steam Tank that is visible to it. This costs 2 SP and can be done even if the tank has moved or is in close combat. Remember that the Steam Tank crew has a ballistic skill of 4!
The Volley Gun fires like an ordinary Helblaster Volley gun (see page 48 in the current Empire book), with the following profile:

Range   Strength   Shots/barrel   Armour Save                 Notes
    24”           4          Artillery dice               -2               Helblaster volley gun

The Steam Tank suffers a strength 6 hit with no saves possible for each misfire rolled when firing the volley gun. If you roll the “Destroyed” result on the misfire chart the Steam Tank also takes D3 wounds with no saves possible.

Siege cannon
A Siege cannon is a huge gun, used to knock down the walls of fortresses and buildings. The Siege cannon follows the rules for the main cannon, but costs 4 SP to fire, has a strength of 10, a range of 24” and causes D6+2 wounds on a wounded target. Against buildings and castle walls, the Siege cannon causes 2D6 wounds. If a misfire is rolled on the first artillery dice when firing the Siege cannon, the Steam tank takes D3 wounds with no saves possible and no shot is fired.


Mortar
To mount a mortar in a Steam Tank, you have to remove the roof of the tank, so no turret weapon can be equipped. The mortar is fired as a normal Empire Mortar, which can be fired even if the tank has moved that turn, with the following profile. If you roll a misfire when rolling for the mortar, the Steam Tank automatically suffers D3 wounds.
The Steam tank is also equipped with two swivel guns, that can be fired at targets in the flank and front arcs of the Steam Tank if the mortar is not fired that turn. They follow the the rules for handguns and uses the ballistic skill of the Engineer Commander.

Weapon                          Range   Strength   Damage   Armour save
  Mortar                             6”-24”          3             1                -1
  Mortar, under the hole         -               6            D3              none
  Swivel gun                         24”            6              1               -4


Engineer Fighting Platform
The unusual design of the War wagon was combined with the steam tank by master engineer Von Zeppel, who also gave his name to the modified tank. From this platform, a fighting crew of trainee engineers could fight, bringing a myriad of experimental weaponry to the field of battle.

The Fighting platform is mounted on top of the Steam Tank and carries six trainee engineers to battle. The trainee engineers armed with missile weapons may shoot even if the tank has moved, with no penalty for moving and shooting. They may fire upon enemies all around the Steam Tank. Remember that the Master engineer can still fire his repeater pistol!
The engineers count as characters riding a chariot (see page 64 of the warhammer rulebook) with a 5+ armour save. Randomize missile fire hits between the tank and the engineers; 1-5 steam tank, 6 Trainee engineer. The Empire player may choose which engineer to remove as casualty.
As long as the Steam Tank is operational, the Engineers count as unbreakable. If the Tank is destroyed, remove them from play along with the tank.

Profile               M  WS  BS  S  T  W  I  A  Ld
Trainee Engineer 4    3     4   3   3   1  3  1    7
Equipment: Light armour, hand weapon and experimental weapon (total armour save 4+)

In addition to their hand weapons, the trainee engineers are armed with different experimental weapons.
•   A Hochland long rifle (see page 47 of the Empire army book)
•   A repeater Handgun (see page 47 of the Empire army book)
•   A Blunderbuss (flame template, str 3, armour piercing, more details in the (coming) SUFFER weapons entry)
•   A man-catcher (killing blow, require two hands)
•   A ball on a chain (3+ strength on the first turn of any combat, require two hands)
•   A hook-halberd (1+ strength, 2+ strength against cavalry models)

Handgunner Emplacement
The WarWagon platform Von Zeppel mounted on the Steam tank carrying his name, has been both modified, destroyed and improved over the years. On one occation, where the Von Zeppel tank was aiding a Stirland army against a Skaven inkurison, the platform carried a regiment of state Handgunners instead of the normal Engineer crew, as they had been brutally murdered the day before the battle was to take place. The concept was very successful, the hangunners raining down fire upon the ratmen as the steam tank rolled over the rest.

The Handgunner emplacement carries 12 Handgunners on a platform mounted on the top of The Steam Tank. The Handgunners may shoot even if the tank has moved, with no penalty for moving and shooting. They may fire upon enemies all around the Steam Tank and the platform is so geniously constructed, so that the handgunners do not block line of sight for each other. Remember that the Master engineer can still fire his repeater pistol!
The Handgunners count as characters riding a chariot (see page 64 of the warhammer rulebook) with a 5+ armour save. Randomnize missile fire hits amongst the tank and the engineers; 1-5 steam tank, 6 Handgunner.


Close combat

Close combat against the fighting platform
Enemies in close combat with the steam tank’s front and flanks may choose to attack the engineers instead of the tank. Roll to hit as normal.
The engineers can strike at enemies at the front and flanks of the tank, but not at the rear. The Trainee engineers armed with missile weapons must use their hand weapons in close combat. They may not shoot while in close combat.

Close Combat against the Handgunner Emplacement
Enemies in close combat with the steam tank’s front and flanks may choose to attack the Handgunners instead of the tank. Roll to hit as normal.
Three handgunners can fight to the front and four to each of the flanks. No handgunners may fight enemies in the rear of the Steam Tank. They must use their hand weapons in close combat and may not shoot whilst the Steam Tank is engaged in close combat.


Shadowwolf
« Last Edit: February 04, 2007, 02:39:07 PM by shadowwolf »
On the right only red, to your left all is white
Ev'ryone's holding, stay in the fight!
White to the right side, left only red
Run like the others, or you'll end up dead!
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Offline Warlord

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Re: SUFFER Additional Steam Tank rules
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2007, 02:45:43 PM »
No Hull weapon all the way  :-D

Not what I was expecting, but good to see all the same  :-)
Quote from: Gneisenau
I hate people who don't paint their armies, hate them with all my guts. Beats me how they value other things over painting, like eating or brushing teeth.

Offline Shadowwolf

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Re: SUFFER Additional Steam Tank rules
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2007, 03:33:10 PM »
What were you expecting, Warlord?  :-) No need to re-invent the wheel, unless your first try turned out a square  :biggriin:

I was thinking of adding the Helstorm as a turret weapon, but changed my mind. I guess it's a little to new to be re-designed for a Steam Tank. And imagine the power!  :icon_razz: Large target, so you can see everything, and the most resilent war machine in the game as base!


Shadowwolf
On the right only red, to your left all is white
Ev'ryone's holding, stay in the fight!
White to the right side, left only red
Run like the others, or you'll end up dead!
Talabheim State Troop proverb
Deviantart? http://dlshadowwolf.deviantart.com/gallery/

Offline Warlord

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Re: SUFFER Additional Steam Tank rules
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2007, 12:32:45 AM »
Reading the fluff for the steam tanks and their evolution, what about a variant that has 24 handguns, etc?

I think there are a few others that are not taken into account in the rules - Gotta go out now, but just thought I would mention it.
Quote from: Gneisenau
I hate people who don't paint their armies, hate them with all my guts. Beats me how they value other things over painting, like eating or brushing teeth.

Offline Shadowwolf

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Re: SUFFER Additional Steam Tank rules
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2007, 12:13:49 PM »
Now that sounds interesting! Where did you find this? I have looked everywhere, but I can't find the old fluff java-thingy, with the travels of the steam tanks... That would have been useful.

I can imagine reconstructing the Von Zeppel platform to hold a reginment of handgunners instead, but it would have to be vey large to room 24 of them. Maybe 12. I'll have a look into it and add it to the rules when finished.

There's a nice picture in the annual 2002 with the steam tank sporting six small cannons (swivel guns?) as well, wich might be something to give as option. But it would require a very large crew inside, to operate them all at once...

More good ideas are always welcome!

Shadowwolf
On the right only red, to your left all is white
Ev'ryone's holding, stay in the fight!
White to the right side, left only red
Run like the others, or you'll end up dead!
Talabheim State Troop proverb
Deviantart? http://dlshadowwolf.deviantart.com/gallery/

Offline Warlord

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Re: SUFFER Additional Steam Tank rules
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2007, 12:56:49 AM »
Here's the link:
http://uk.games-workshop.com/empire/steam%2Dtank/1/
however it appears the link for the steam tank travels is broken (which sucks, because thats got all the names of the steam tanks...)
Quote from: Gneisenau
I hate people who don't paint their armies, hate them with all my guts. Beats me how they value other things over painting, like eating or brushing teeth.

Offline Shadowwolf

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Re: SUFFER Additional Steam Tank rules
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2007, 12:49:02 PM »
Added a few of the ideas  :happy: Thanks for the link, Warlord!

Shadowwolf
On the right only red, to your left all is white
Ev'ryone's holding, stay in the fight!
White to the right side, left only red
Run like the others, or you'll end up dead!
Talabheim State Troop proverb
Deviantart? http://dlshadowwolf.deviantart.com/gallery/

Offline Warlord

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Re: SUFFER Additional Steam Tank rules
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2007, 01:54:20 PM »
Very nice. I like the 'additional boiler' rule, and I guess the drop in AS does justify - however I think that once the steam tank drops to half wounds, the additional boiler should be lost - and here is potentially where you could implement rolling a D3 instead of a D6 to use steam points as the second boiler is gone, and a lot of pressure is lost - hence a lot of misfire potential also lost...
Quote from: Gneisenau
I hate people who don't paint their armies, hate them with all my guts. Beats me how they value other things over painting, like eating or brushing teeth.

Offline Olivier van Brau

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Re: SUFFER Additional Steam Tank rules
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2008, 11:36:48 AM »
Great, I really like those rules!  :eusa_clap:
Just need the approuval of my gaming group now!! :dry:

Maybe add the fact that the platform count as hard cover for the purpose of shooting and a defended obstacle or elevated position (or both) in CC.  I think this represent well the enemy trying to hit the trainees or handgunners with weapons held above their heads.

Quote
There's a nice picture in the annual 2002 with the steam tank sporting six small cannons (swivel guns?) as well, wich might be something to give as option. But it would require a very large crew inside, to operate them all at once...

These are in fact 6 reapeter handguns!! Thus 18 handguns shots not 24.

Offline Fandir Nightshade

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Re: SUFFER Additional Steam Tank rules
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2008, 12:59:41 PM »
I would love for GW to bring back the van Zeppel rules somehow to the Empire rules. The model is fantastic!

But your emplacement seems a little too cheap also the hand gunner emplacement giving the steam tank more close combat potential is a mighty tool. The 12 Handgunners alone are 96 points without the no move and shoot advantage and 360 ° you also give the stank an actual 6+ ward save  :biggriin:

Offline Shadowwolf

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Re: SUFFER Additional Steam Tank rules
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2008, 01:34:18 PM »
You, Sir, have a very good point  :-P

I never thought of that.

Now, either lower the number of handgunners to about 8-9 or raise the price of it to 120ish? I also believe the randomnizing should be more like 1-4 ST, 5-6 HG. Not to give it a special Handgunner save, but to represent the crowded platform absorbing missile fire coming in arcs from above. The handgunners would absolutely die to, say crossbow fire.

I believe lowering the number of handgunners is the way to go, as players will after all not want to put all their eggs into one basket :-) The tank is expensive as it is!

Thanks for suggestions!

On the right only red, to your left all is white
Ev'ryone's holding, stay in the fight!
White to the right side, left only red
Run like the others, or you'll end up dead!
Talabheim State Troop proverb
Deviantart? http://dlshadowwolf.deviantart.com/gallery/

Offline Fandir Nightshade

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Re: SUFFER Additional Steam Tank rules
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2008, 02:43:11 PM »
The Van Zeppel would be brutal in playtesting I guess the stank as it is does great damage to everything it hits in close combat at another six attacks (three of them even with high strength) is the creme...on top  :biggriin:

Also I guess almost all would take the naked one with no cannon and no steam gun.

Offline mwalsh867

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Re: SUFFER Additional Steam Tank rules
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2008, 02:52:16 PM »
I mentioned this in the engineer thread, but I should repeat here:

I used the von Zeppel the other night, and it was fantastic to have all the engineers on top do something besides pretend to be a steam gun.  I really appreciate the work you put into this, shadowwolf!

Points values are always going to be a point of contention.  Probably both platforms should increase in cost to 115 or so, and fewer handgunners (I think 7-8 might fit on the von Zeppel platform with minimal work).

-Matt

Offline Shadowwolf

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Re: SUFFER Additional Steam Tank rules
« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2008, 03:02:18 PM »
The cost is based upon how it was priced in 6th edition, taking into account what differences it made for the STank as whole.
That means if the platform was underpriced before, it probably is now.

Anyway, a 370 points, which is a lot for a single model which can be stopped by a spear chucka.

Perhaps it is the No hull weapon option which is underpriced. People don't use the cannon in battle AND 25 points cheaper AND gives an extra wound, allowing you to build up 5 SP from the start without worrying...

The Van Zeppel would be brutal in playtesting I guess the stank as it is does great damage to everything it hits in close combat at another six attacks (three of them even with high strength) is the creme...on top  :biggriin:

Check out the EuroBash reports, where I field the Von Zeppel Version in two battles. Since it went undamaged the first turns, it could use all steam for movement. Pretty nasty...  :happy:

http://www.warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=23946.0

Somwhere...

Shadowwolf
On the right only red, to your left all is white
Ev'ryone's holding, stay in the fight!
White to the right side, left only red
Run like the others, or you'll end up dead!
Talabheim State Troop proverb
Deviantart? http://dlshadowwolf.deviantart.com/gallery/

Offline Adrian

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Re: SUFFER Additional Steam Tank rules
« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2008, 09:13:26 PM »
In my opinion the no hull shouldn't give one more wound but one more T. This would help ALOT against those damn bolters. Also they should make steam tanks get and armour saves vs bolters I mean they have a thick steel plating and there armour save is as much as a knight. Then make it usable one every 1000 points starting from 2000.
On the battle field there is only but one commandment
THOU SHALT KILL