home

Author Topic: Tacticas for W-E: Warriors of Chaos  (Read 7406 times)

Offline PhillyT

  • The Old Ones
  • Posts: 18706
  • Watching... always watching...
    • https://www.facebook.com/philip.estabrook.1
Tacticas for W-E: Warriors of Chaos
« on: April 12, 2010, 11:31:12 PM »
This is the draft thread for the W-E Tactica against Warriors of Chaos.  Generlisimo is currently working on it.  If you have comments for the things posted here, go ahead.  Any help will be appreciated.

Phil
« Last Edit: April 12, 2010, 11:35:04 PM by PhillyT »
Where did she touch you Eight? Show us on the doll.

Offline Nicholas Bies

  • Posts: 5329
  • puzzling
Re: Tacticas for W-E: Warriors of Chaos
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2010, 02:32:18 AM »

This is annoying. I play against WoC almost every week but with my Delves not Empire so can't really help except to tell people what "works" in the WoC list
The greatest form of control which can go on forever until it is exposed is a tyranny you can't see, touch and taste (unlike totalitarian Govts). When you sit in a prison cell but can't see the bars, because people don't rebel against not being free when they think they're are.

Offline Warlord

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 10085
  • Sydney, Australia
Re: Tacticas for W-E: Warriors of Chaos
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2010, 03:15:12 AM »
Don't worry about it Ben. there are many parts to a tactica. The first part we should focus on is identifying all the units in the list, their strengths and weaknesses. You can definitely contribute to that.

I have played against them a number of times with my Empire, and most of the time I win, or am very close to winning.
Though generally these are not the monster heavy lists they can create, but a mix of marauders, warriors, knights hell cannon and magic.

Have a shot.
Quote from: Gneisenau
I hate people who don't paint their armies, hate them with all my guts. Beats me how they value other things over painting, like eating or brushing teeth.

Offline Generalisimo

  • Posts: 353
Re: Tacticas for W-E: Warriors of Chaos
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2010, 02:34:47 PM »
WARRIORS OF CHAOS

SO, you have probably seen and heard about this army, played against a couple of times or more, now I will try to focus on identifying   the units in the list, their advantages and disadvantages.( It is my first tactica so if I forget something assist me.)

CORE UNITS:

WARRIORS OF CHAOS: maybe the best close combat core choice in the game ,their main core unit. Their impressive stats and equipment makes them   really   hard hitting units that don t relay on ranks or the outnumber to win the day, but just by killing stuff and staying alive.       
M  WS  BS   S  T  W  I  A  Ld  . As you can see they are preaty good.
 4     5     3   4  4   1   5  2   8 

Standar equipment: hand weapon, chaos armor.
Must choose   at least one of these: shields (for survivability) , additional hand wepons ( for more killing power on lightly armor troops), great weapons ( knights be awerd), halberds (2 S5 can be good against some armies)
Cost: 15 points each and their above equipment 1 point each (great weapon is 2)
Also :they can take a mark of Nurgle,  Khorne ,Tzeentch, Slaanesh  only one of them of course . I will explain the marks later.And a magic standar   up to 50  points.  They also have THE WILL OF CHAOS special rule that allows them to reroll failed panic tests , so don’t think that you can scare them of easily.


MARUDERS: they are also a favored core choice to a lot of WoC players due to their flexibility and  the fact being cheap.(at least compared with warriors of chaos)
M  WS  BS   S  T  W  I  A  Ld  . The same as our swordsmen
 4     4   3     3    3  1   4  1  7

Standar equipment: hand weapon.
They may take any of these: shields, flails (that’s  killy), great weapons, light armor
Cost: 4 points per model, 
Also: they can take a mark of any god  and have THE WILL OF CHAOS special rule too.


CHAOS HOUNDS:  these are really great diverters , war machine-killers, meat shields ,flank chargers, all in one.
M  WS  BS   S  T  W  I  A  Ld 
7      4    0    3  3  1   3  1   5

Cost : 6 points

May take poisoned attacks, scaly skin  ( but noone takes them because they are expensive and needless)
Also: they have THE WILL OF CHAOS too


MARAUDER HORSMEN: the fast cavalry that is more  expensive than the hounds but more realable  on its own.
M  WS  BS  S  T  W  I  A  Ld
4    4      3   3  3  1   4 1    7     marauder
8   3            3                            worhorse

Cost:13 points

May take: shields,flails,spears,javelins,throwing axes, light armor(no longer fast cavalry if light armor). 
Also: they can take a mark too.and have WIll OF CHAOS and they can reroll the 3d6 to pursuit a fleeing unit.

So these are the core units of WoC, I am working on the special now (they have quite a lot) , after I finish briefing I will post tactics that most generals use and how to overcome them.
At first glance the Chaos Warriors are too much for an empire state troop, but if the right units are chosen and right movement takes place with some consentrated fired they are nothing more than big metal walking scared guys that the empire has to teach them a lesson.

« Last Edit: April 14, 2010, 02:41:17 PM by Generalisimo »

Offline Generalisimo

  • Posts: 353
Re: Tacticas for W-E: Warriors of Chaos
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2010, 02:35:48 PM »
HOW AN EMPIRE PLAYER SOULD DEAL WITH THEM
These are all great core choices, but you probably noticed something. No shooting units, at all….. WoC have no protection at all from range combat (except magic that is).

Hundgunners hurt the chaos armor , used as full plate, giving only a +5 armor save if the warriors have shields, +6 if they use an other weapon. So start shooting them before you engage them in close combat, don t have any expectations to panic them though, it rarely happens. When they reach to charge you, you must remember something: Sigmar and static combat resolution will help.
Always  have a combat detachment ( swordsmen are the best for this job) to get a flank bonus and negate ranks if any,  having the detachment 3x3 is important because if a lot of chaos warriors are able to attack the detachment   they will get a nasty bonus by kills! Also you will need to have space to perform a counter charge, a smart player will use hounds or cheap marauders to stop the detachment from counter charging, sometimes even beating it in close combat and charge  on the parent unit next turn  on the flank . You should find this small units and use small arms fire on them like  archers or crossbowmen. Archers work great as diverters so just start  blocking and shooting.  Good units in the empire army that can perform well against   warriors are: Swordsmen with swordsmen detachment (full ranks banners outnumber flank, 5 SCR for you), nilla  knights for counter charging on the flanks of engaged units, hundgunners, pistoliers( just run behind him and march block – shoot them down), if you have the slot Outriders can be fairly good since they can t be attacked by afar and every one counts as 3 hundgunners, a hellstorm could be also devastating if you get lucky.
So soften them up and cut them down then

Marauders are preaty much the same tactic , shoot and engage, but a lot of times you find this guys as diverters or counter chargers ( used as or detachments, of course without the rules but the strategy is the same, charge with the warriors ,hold, charge with the marauders). Good units are the above and mortars can kill them easily  too , don’t underastemate them and always find space to maneuvere  and get the charges and supporting charges that you desire.

Hounds are pretty much meat shields for expensive knight units that sometimes have frenzy,  If you are on a hill just ignore them and shoot the knights, but in other cases, shoot the hounds, one or two dead and you can see the knights behind them to shoot them with your dirty stuff. If they are used as bait and flee tactics, shoot them with archers and then bait and flee yourself, if he charges your archers with the hounds flee . Also always keep an eye on them for charges at your flanks or they might stop your detachments like the marauders above.

The marauder horsemen are no much for an empire general, with so many shooting choices we can devastate them in one round of crossbow shooting, if I knew that I would play against empire I wouldn’t t use them, since they are too expensive  compared with the hounds or marauders for diverting and counter charging.

Next update will be the special rules and special choices.....
« Last Edit: April 14, 2010, 02:40:47 PM by Generalisimo »

Offline anvalous

  • Posts: 606
Re: Tacticas for W-E: Warriors of Chaos
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2010, 08:53:02 PM »
Generalisimo hit on a lot of good stuff.  I tried to break the list out by key players that you'll likely face.  Characters and the big scary monsters are mostly out, as of yet, but the meaningful core and special choices are here, complete with my attempt at strengths and weaknesses.

Please feel free to comment!  (Long post... let me know if I should break it up?)

Key Units for the WoC Player:
Warriors of Chaos:
As stated above, these are hard-as-nails core troops.  They are expensive, but with the 2+ in CC, they don’t die easily.  Further, their equipment and mark options are great.
Strengths:
Fantastic armor save combined with 2 WS 5, S 4 attacks.  Even when packing a sword and shield, they are phenomenal troops.  Given a halberd permits the option for S5 attacks striking at an initiative of 5.  They will go first and crack you in turns after they hold.
As one can imagine, they greatly benefit from extra soldiers attacking.  Common runs are 6x2 or 7x2.  Their price makes 3 rank units rare.
Tricks:
Independently, they have very little to worry about aside from marks.  However, they are amazing in the presence of specific banners.  Banner of the Gods makes ‘em stubborn on ld 8 (and with a reroll since this one’s a BSB flag) and the Banner of rage can give them frenzy.
Watch out for the raging warriors with 3 attacks and a 2+ save.  They’ll win.  A lot.
Weaknesses:
We’ve got these guys rocked when it comes to range.  Even packing shields, they’re going to be at a 5+ against our powder weaponry.  Take advantage of it.  If you can march block them with pistoliers, do so.  They are infantry and if they can’t march, they are not an issue until turn 4.
Along that vein, however, they need to be a target.  With all of the rough stuff in a chaos list that can close quickly (i.e. knights) it is all too easy to ignore the warriors.  I’ve banked on that several times and had my 12 man unit swing the game to my favor in the second half.

Knights of Chaos:
A special choice that is always in a game.  At 40pts base, these guys carry a hefty pricetag and a hefty hit.  They’re like our knights, but WS 5, S 5 (always), T4, I5, and A2.  They have magical attacks and a 1+ armor save.  They can break a ranked unit in the front and have the staying power to make an impact after the combat progresses.
Units of 6 are common and a full command is usually taken.  Common banners include a war banner, the Blasted Standard which gives them a 5+ ward  against shooting and magic missiles, and the Banner of Rage for the frenzy (Nurgle + Frenzy = big, baitable, pain).
Strengths:
A lot of ‘Duh...’ points here.  They are combat monsters with great saves and the ability to wail in combat.  They will hit often and wound often.  They are reliable and a mainstay of the army.  They are heavy cav at its finest (Sorry, Bretonnia...).
As with the warriors, they benefit greatly from marks.  In tourney play, the most common are Nurgle (-1 to hit from shooting, -1WS to those attacking [note that this isn’t for defending – it doesn’t make the knights hit you more easily]) and Slaanesh (ItP).  Nurgle knights are formidible due to their resistance to shooting... makes it that much easier to get them into combat.
Weaknesses:
They don’t have a lot of weaknesses, though the high point cost keeps them to 2 units, max, on the field (usually).  That helps.  These small number units really mean that every casualty counts, though, and it only takes one failed save...
Volume is the key to killing knights.  You need to hit them with a lot.  Usually that means magic or shooting.
Handgunners, war machines (cannons are especially good as they don’t require to-hit rolls so they ignore the mark of Nurgle!), and magic are awesome.  Lore of metal will eat these guys for breakfast.  Even the single kill at a time will be significant.  That 1+ AS turns into a str 7 hit with no save, if memory serves.  Zot!
Try to bog them in our unbreakables – Flaggelants work very well – or stubborn units.  The Griffon banner will help us to stick around for another combat, or two, and might set up a flank charge.
Beware hitting them in the flanks with soft targets (infantry) if they are engaged with something solid (knights).  One knight swinging at a soft flank can easily gain extra CR.

Marauder Horsemen:
Strengths:
The unit, itself, is VERY versatile.  I expect them to become more used as light cav (not fast cav) if 8th edition comes to fruition in terms of cavalry rules and marching.  With an 8 Mv and great weapon options, these will be a tactical nightmare for the generally static Empire line.
The most common marks you’ll see on these are Slaanesh (ItP) and Khorne.  Slaanesh horsemen generally operate as harassers.  Khorne horsemen are missiles.  With flails, they’ve got some serious warheads, too.
A unit of 6 khornate horsemen with flails has a 16” charge, 12 str 5 attacks from the dudes and 12 str 3 attacks from the horses (frenzy works on the mounts, too).  That is enough to shred a lot.  Ogres break.  Men break.  Elves break (except HE... ASF can be sick against no AS, low T models).  At 120 points, they are expendable and used pretty widely.
Expect to see at least 2 units of marked horsmen in every army.
Weakness:
No armor, T 3.  They die quickly.  A few rounds of shooting, and they’re gone.  Cool.
If they have the mark of Slaanesh, then they are immune to psych... that means they cannot flee.  If they are so marked, they are immune to panic (bonus of them), but they lose the fast cav value of bait and flee.  Same goes for Khorne.
If they are vanilla horsemen, then psychology is great.

Chaos Chariot:
Every bad-guy army has to have one...
Strengths:
One of the most resilient chariots in the game.  120 points of T5, 3+AS chariot with S 5 and scythed wheels.  Top it with 2 warriors with halberds and you add another 4 S5 attacks to the mix.  I’ve never seen one break a ranked unit by itself, but it’s come awfully close.
Most popular mark for this unit is definitely Slaanesh.  Like every other unit, they’re vulnerable to psychology.  As tourney play is dominated by terror and fear causers, the ItP is a must.  It is also a bummer when your meat-shield warhounds flee and panic a line.  Bait and flee tactics work very well in an ItP battle line...
Weaknesses:
Like every other chariot, S 7 will pop them.  We don’t have a lot, but cannons work wonders if the chaos chariot presents itself and the steam tank’s cannon can work in a pinch.  Small arms fire can drag it down, as can prolonged combats.  Without the impact hits, it’ll wear you down, but will likely lose by 1-2 every round.
Don’t let them team up.  A chariot plus another unit (horsemen, for example), can be devastating.

Trolls:
With the addition of Throgg and the benefits of the Eye of the Gods (EotG) tied to mutant regeneration, these stupid creatures become much more effective.
Strengths:
Big one is the mutant regeneration.  For every 2 wounds regenerated, the unit gets a roll on the EotG table.  This can create a truly terrifying unit in short order.  I’ve even seen very large units of trolls for this very reason.  A unit of 8-10 trolls is as expensive as a solid unit of chaos knights, but has 24-30 wounds to eat through.  That is a LOT of regeneration rolls.  In short, they can quickly become stubborn trolls with a 4+ ward save, T5, S6, etc.  If you’re going to go after them, try and make it big.  These rolls come at the end of the phase.
Vomit is a killer against our knights and steam tank.  No armor save, auto-hit.  A big unit of trolls = a lot of vomit.  Our T 3 knights melt (literally) under this assault.  Be aware that it is there and choose your units well.  The 3, S 5 attacks is nothing to slouch at, either.  Trolls are nasty.
Weaknesses:
First and foremost, they are stupid.  With Throgg or their general, they will probably be Ld 8.  That still gives you a decent shot at them doing nothing but stumbling forward.  Doesn’t matter if they are in combat, but a liability to the WoC player early in the game.  Without the Ld bump, they sit at Ld 4.  Drool.
Secondarily, they have no armor.  They will take wounds to shooting.  The EotG table is fickle and only gives a 1/36 chance for the Stubborn, 4+ ward.  We’ve got the tools, so we should use them.
Thirdly, their weapon skill is only 3.  They’ll be hitting on 4’s against most things.
As a final, obvious note – the lore of fire wins.
Subnote on Throgg:
Throgg is a new special character that makes trolls core and allows every monster in the list (only important for trolls) to use his leadership.  He is a beefier troll with 2 tricks – his vomit does 1d6 hits (ouch!) and once per game he can vomit a breath weapon template.  Very potent.  He’s pretty popular in tourney play.

Chosen:
It seems that most armies have their ‘Death Star’ unit – one which houses several characters and is nigh un-beatable.  For WoC, Chosen typically become this unit.  They are expensive chaos warriors with benefits...
Strengths:
Everything from the warrior comments above count.  Further, they have a free EotG roll at the beginning of the game.  They start out with something.  To make matters worse, their champions can take gifts/items worth up to 25 pts.  There is a 5 pt gift called Favor of the Gods which allows them to +/- 1 on the roll.  This means that they will probably start with something good.  Not surprising to find an extra T or S unit running around.  They also increase to a 1/12 chance to start with Stubborn/4+ ward.  That shows up, and you’ve got a rock, albeit a very expensive one.
You will often see them in armies with a warshrine – a rare choice which acts like a really hard speed bump and can give a unit an EotG roll every turn.
Weaknesses:
Again, same as warriors.  They are also expensive enough that you’ll rarely see them in units larger than 12.  They also still have to walk to you...

Chaos Ogres:
Nothing too special about these guys.
Facts:
They can upgrade to Chaos Armor.  This gives them a 4+ armor save.  Not bad for an ogre.  With great weapons, this option brings them to a whopping 50 points each.  Otherwise their statline is just like an ogre.  Ld 8, I believe.

Dragon Ogres:
These are another hammer in an army of hammers...
Strengths:
These are fast, high wound monsters with a huge damage output potential.  Their attacks per frontage is higher than a knight with 4 attacks each.  Their 4 wounds make them hardy, as does their 4+ armor save.  Top it off with a Mv of 7 and you have a legitimate threat.
Common setup involves great weapons which brings them to the sought-for S 7.
D. ogres are common in units of 3-4 and are too pricey to go past that.  Knights often win the competition for Special slots due to resilience.
Weakness:
Despite having a decent armor for such a high strength model, it is still only a 4+.  With the T 4, they make phenomenal targets for all shooting attacks.  If you engage, try to utilize detachments for counter charges.  They are soft enough that even free company will inflict some damage.  Halbediers might be a better choice, but a couple of wounds is a couple of wounds.
You also can’t discount their cost.  These guys come in at 75+pts each with great weapons... a little soft for the VPs!

There are more... I’ll try to break down some of the other oddities when time permits.

Offline Generalisimo

  • Posts: 353
Re: Tacticas for W-E: Warriors of Chaos
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2010, 05:37:08 PM »
Thanks for the help anvalous, hope you continue.

I will not talk about the special choices of WoC, except forsaken that anvalous forsaken,

Forsaken: another close combat hitter as a special choice. 
Strengths: they are faster than normal chaos warriors, these guys have M 6, so they may surprise your infantry with a charge, and quite a lot of attacks, D3+1 each at S4,  usually used on a unit of 12 they can dish out 24 Ws4 S4 attcks!
Weaknesses: They don t wear  chaos armor, only heavy armor, so no save by a handgun shot, And their T 4  doesn t help them either,  they are not as good as the chosen due to their unpredictability  but they are not as expensive either at 18 points. Of course they will not break a full ranked up unit on the charge, but don t let them charge you with a combination (eg. horsemen or a chariot). You may not see them on tournaments  but  they can be fun to play against and with.They are not able to take a mark (forsaken by the gods) so don t be afraid by that.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2010, 05:52:38 PM by Generalisimo »

Offline Taureus

  • Posts: 421
Re: Tacticas for W-E: Warriors of Chaos
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2010, 06:17:05 AM »
This whole "marauders don't have armor" creep is upsetting to see...

Buy them armor dammit!!
Quote from: The Red Scourge;4561884
Funny. Rick Priestley always imagined 1 model to equate around 5 men, but then again, they were just a bunch of hippies, so he was probably too stoned to notice ;)

Offline Warlord

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 10085
  • Sydney, Australia
Re: Tacticas for W-E: Warriors of Chaos
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2010, 06:46:47 AM »
Agree. Light armour and a shield. They are actually decent that way - hell they are Empire Swordsmen! I don't know why Chaos players never use these guys for cheap static CR.
Quote from: Gneisenau
I hate people who don't paint their armies, hate them with all my guts. Beats me how they value other things over painting, like eating or brushing teeth.

Offline Nicholas Bies

  • Posts: 5329
  • puzzling
Re: Tacticas for W-E: Warriors of Chaos
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2010, 09:16:23 AM »
I wouldn't bother. I'd take 10 with MoK and flails. like 80pts or 100pts who cares if they get done and pack a nasty punch in combat.
The greatest form of control which can go on forever until it is exposed is a tyranny you can't see, touch and taste (unlike totalitarian Govts). When you sit in a prison cell but can't see the bars, because people don't rebel against not being free when they think they're are.

Offline anvalous

  • Posts: 606
Re: Tacticas for W-E: Warriors of Chaos
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2010, 12:40:43 PM »
I hope that the creep comment was in relation to a growing trend and not as a character trait of any of the posters on this thread...

The marauder horsemen and their armor status was commented on, primarily, due to the fact that people don't pay for it.  With LA and shields, the horsemen lose their fast cav status.  Without that, they're not as useful and most people tend to keep them with the flexibility and mobility of the fast cav rules.

The infantry have already been rightly compared to our swordsmen.  Nearly identical, except for the 25mm base size.  LA and shields all the way.  Small units sometimes pop up, but that is usually just to fill a core slot for a character-heavy list.

Offline Taureus

  • Posts: 421
Re: Tacticas for W-E: Warriors of Chaos
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2010, 04:14:47 PM »
I hope that the creep comment was in relation to a growing trend and not as a character trait of any of the posters on this thread...

The marauder horsemen and their armor status was commented on, primarily, due to the fact that people don't pay for it.  With LA and shields, the horsemen lose their fast cav status.  Without that, they're not as useful and most people tend to keep them with the flexibility and mobility of the fast cav rules.

The infantry have already been rightly compared to our swordsmen.  Nearly identical, except for the 25mm base size.  LA and shields all the way.  Small units sometimes pop up, but that is usually just to fill a core slot for a character-heavy list.

I don't direct name-calling towards anyone.

It was meant towards the tend I keep seeing on here that people in two different threads have said that marauders don't have armor, which is completely false.

And in now way was I referring to loading LA/shields both onto marauder horse; clearly you misunderstood what I meant.

@Bies: That's a poor setup.
Quote from: The Red Scourge;4561884
Funny. Rick Priestley always imagined 1 model to equate around 5 men, but then again, they were just a bunch of hippies, so he was probably too stoned to notice ;)

Offline anvalous

  • Posts: 606
Re: Tacticas for W-E: Warriors of Chaos
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2010, 04:25:14 PM »
@Taureus -

Thank you for the clarification!  Most appreciated.  In the future, I'll make sure to note what options are open to the units, as well as the common kit.

@Generalisimo -

I looked at the greenskin tactica and was suitably impressed.  Any chance you'd be willing over the coming weeks to work through our knowledge and get something a bit more formal up for the site?

Offline Generalisimo

  • Posts: 353
Re: Tacticas for W-E: Warriors of Chaos
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2010, 05:39:38 PM »
Anvalous  did a great job,
I mentioned the light armor and shield on the horsemen , above didn t I?  :mellow:

Here is
RARE

Chaos spawn:  1-2  can be taken as 1 rare choice so if you  see  a spawn you will most likely see another one nearby.
Strengths:  360 line of sight, they can attack any one near them be it pistoliers, or steam tank. They move in a strait line 2d6, so they are unpredictable,  they are also  unbreakable  tat means you have to kill it to get rid of it for sure .Spawns work wonders as supporting  units for  blocks of warriors/marauders/chosen and sometimes ,even if not always needed, knights. They can take a mark something that can give them some serious benefits: like Nurgle to prevent you from shooting it, slannesh giving ASF(!),  these are the most common. It is really important to pay attention to a spwans moves because it can be used as diverter or can stop a counter-supporting charge if  it stands right in the middle of your line.

Weaknesses: They may have T5 but they wear no armor at all. With three wounds they are fragile to crossbow fire or a well placed cannon ball. A ranked up unit will teach it a good lesson, or a magic missile will do the job.

Chaos Warshine: It may not have a model yet but it can be really useful to every WoC player out there.

Strengths: It can grand each turn a unit the ability to roll on the EotG table. With little luck it can work wonders. It also grants  EotG  to unit champions, even ogre and dragon ogre champs, giving more character to the army. It is really tough wit T6  and ward  +4(that can be improved to  +3 if mark of tzeentch is chosen). Most popular  mark of course is the mark of nurgle.  It is not a chariot, it is used as a monster, so no cannonball auto kill for this fella.

Weaknesses: It can t  win combat against SCR, so if a block gets it in combat, it is over, it will break. It has 5 Ws5 S4 attacks, so no harm for CR there. But if it pulls out a combined charge it can win. With+4 armor save it can be easily destroyed. Also it has movement 4 so it will run away just 2d6. Due to its high T and ward save, stank for the win, terror  and a lot of impact hits and it will run ( make sure it has not the mark of slannesh before you try to terror it though, it is ItP)

Hell cannon: The only  shooting power in a WoC army.
Strengths: It is a nasty  war machine- daemon that spits fire and sucks souls .Well, it is used as a stone thrower and it has a S 5, every unit that suffers a casualty must take a panic test with -1 Ld, so be careful. It is also unbreakable and has T6 and W5….. 5A Ws4 S5……. Ouch .Also it causes terror and has a unit str of 5, so don t underestimate it in combat either.

Weaknesses: It is a large target, but with such a toughness you will hardly wound it. If it misfires, it can be devastating for the Chaos player, and sometimes you. From eating it s own crew on making all wizards taking a miscast table roll, it is always fun to misfire with it, most of the the  times it will hurt. Also it is bound on a rule: rampage, if it doesn’t t pass a Ld test it moves 3d6  to the closest enemy. So, how to destroy it? Cannons is the answer , I have seen a lot of well placed cannon balls breaking that thing up, and you can use the cannon even if it is not on a hill, since the hell cannon is large target. Also no ward saves.

Dragon ogre shaggoth: Super cool looking giant dragon ogre that: causes terror, is ItP and has an armor save of +4, it is a large target too.
Strengths: Really good fighter, A5 S6 T5 Ws6 M7. Keep your stem tank out of charge range. With great weapon it has S8! Terror with 14 inch charge is a threat to the empire, but if you see that you cant kill it from afar,  you must then sacrifice  a unit for the sake of the others , NOT knights, they die as easily as all the other troops against the shaggoth. Flagellants is my choice, try to engage it with a 15-20 man mob and it will of course kill them all at the end( unless you are really lucky) but it will loose some rounds, giving you time to reconsider, make a powerful counter charge or get ready to shoot it again later.
Weaknesses: A  large target with no ward save and lightly armored should fear the empire, because a concentrated fire of handguns  will put that thing down in 3-4 rounds…… Not good enough, then cannons and hellblasters can do the job, and quite easily of course, cannons can put that thing down in 1-2 rounds, ha-ha Empire is great. Also a stubborn/unbreakable unit can hold it for a round or more, and if you get the charge and supporting charge maybe win with SCR , just pray it is afraid of tiny little men with banners, and it will eventually flee. Griffon banner is just great against such enemies, if not engaged in the flank auto win…..

Giant: The usual giant that a lot of armies are able to use.
Strengths: Stubborn Ld 10, large target T5, 6W,Terror, as usual the giant special attacks. The only exception is that he can take a mark, mark of slaneesh is my favorite giving ASF (!), but the most popular mark against empire is mark of nurgle just to negate the Large target +1 to hit.

Weaknesses:  No armor, even crossbow bolts can put him down, of course a cannon ball is the best way to deal with multi wound terror causing large targets. If you must get in close combat try  big blocks, no steam tank if he has not suffered a wound or two. Big blocks can win through SCR and hold him for more rounds like the Shaggoth. But be careful and always keep an eye on him, if he charges a unit of Knights or a steam tank, maybe war altar , don t expect to see  good stuff happen. A hellblaster sounds fun too.

@anvalous
O&G tactica ? I didn t right it, it is impressive though. :happy:
I would be happy to help for it.

Next time magic items and characters.

Offline Taureus

  • Posts: 421
Re: Tacticas for W-E: Warriors of Chaos
« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2010, 05:36:13 AM »
Anvalous  did a great job,
I mentioned the light armor and shield on the horsemen , above didn t I?  :mellow:

You did mention the option to take light armor and/or shields, so I wasn't directing my comments at you.  :icon_razz:
Quote from: The Red Scourge;4561884
Funny. Rick Priestley always imagined 1 model to equate around 5 men, but then again, they were just a bunch of hippies, so he was probably too stoned to notice ;)

Offline Taureus

  • Posts: 421
Re: Tacticas for W-E: Warriors of Chaos
« Reply #15 on: April 22, 2010, 05:43:01 AM »
Chaos Ogres:
Nothing too special about these guys.
Facts:
They can upgrade to Chaos Armor.  This gives them a 4+ armor save.  Not bad for an ogre.  With great weapons, this option brings them to a whopping 50 points each.  Otherwise their statline is just like an ogre.  Ld 8, I believe.

They are only Ld 7, which can cause some problems. But: They can also be marked!

A unit of 3, with chaos armor, additional hand weapons, and the Mark of Khorne puts them at 165 points, and gives you 15 S4 attacks. Or using GWs, the unit would throw out 12 S6 attacks.
Quote from: The Red Scourge;4561884
Funny. Rick Priestley always imagined 1 model to equate around 5 men, but then again, they were just a bunch of hippies, so he was probably too stoned to notice ;)

Offline anvalous

  • Posts: 606
Re: Tacticas for W-E: Warriors of Chaos
« Reply #16 on: April 22, 2010, 12:40:16 PM »
Thanks, Taureus!

As I seem to end up piece-mealing this stuff together (and at work), the extra set of eyes is great.

The marks are a great point as well.  I'll try to break them down at some point (today?) as they are no longer the same as the old book.  For example - Spawn with the mark of slaanesh move 3d6 inches.  Shaggoths can't be marked.  Giant marks are a little different from the rest.  That sort of stuff.

If General and I can work something a little more formal out, I may shoot it your direction for a double check, if that's cool?

Offline Taureus

  • Posts: 421
Re: Tacticas for W-E: Warriors of Chaos
« Reply #17 on: April 22, 2010, 07:29:34 PM »
Thanks, Taureus!

As I seem to end up piece-mealing this stuff together (and at work), the extra set of eyes is great.

The marks are a great point as well.  I'll try to break them down at some point (today?) as they are no longer the same as the old book.  For example - Spawn with the mark of slaanesh move 3d6 inches.  Shaggoths can't be marked.  Giant marks are a little different from the rest.  That sort of stuff.

If General and I can work something a little more formal out, I may shoot it your direction for a double check, if that's cool?

Slaanesh makes spawn ASF. :P And Khorne gives them +1 Strength. (same as for a giant)

I have no problem helping out you guys either, I just don't know the "Here's what Empire can do to win:" half of the equation...Seems like Handgunners and Cannons are the answer to most things though.  :icon_lol:
Quote from: The Red Scourge;4561884
Funny. Rick Priestley always imagined 1 model to equate around 5 men, but then again, they were just a bunch of hippies, so he was probably too stoned to notice ;)

Offline Fandir Nightshade

  • Posts: 10157
Re: Tacticas for W-E: Warriors of Chaos
« Reply #18 on: May 19, 2010, 02:42:48 PM »
One correction on Generalissimos post Mark of Slaanesh isn´t immune to psych it is immune to fear, terror and panic therefore they are immune to all leadership effects but are able to flee if they want to.