Topic: Doom Diver Dodging

[mr chumley warner]

Guys I am vexed still with the Doom Diver Catapult.

For instance , you can have a Level 4 Wizard Lord on a Horse, and the Doom Diver lands on his head, D6 St 5 Hits.

No armour save.

He's basically dead.

Any character or cavalry unit is open to this attack.

Even Karl Franz can't hide!
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The only thing you can do, is to get a Captasus to move to wthin 12 '' so that the Doom Diver can't fire.

I guess then you can try to engage the crew in CC.

Maybe just move Pistoliers into 12'' also, and try to keep them alive.

[Peasant Count]

Is it in a position to bounce cannon balls through it?

[Finlay]

he gets look out sir...

Running a dude around on his own vs artillery is silly!

[Derek Contyre]

Your best option is to stick him in a unit of like models and hope the enemy scatters or misfires... saving that, do what every empire general does, take two cannons and counter battery fire.

[Empire - Ulric]

One of my Buddies I play constantly has a doom diver with deadly accuracy. It's accounted for many an empire character, but most notably a swath of poor engineers.

The best advice I can give is make that Doom Diver eat some cannon balls asap! and keep you characters where they can get a look out sir roll. That said, the 4+ LOS the Engineer gets does a piss poor job of protecting him from my experiences)

[mr chumley warner]

Thanks !

I think you share my pain!?

If I played Orcs I would have 3 Doom Divers !

You could snipe all the Empire Characters in two turns!

All for 240 Pts?!

It's far too deadly , for 80 pts. In every game I ahve played , his Doom Diver takes at least 200-300 Pts of my knights/pistoliers/characters out of the game.

Ridiculous

[milo]

You could snipe all the Empire Characters in two turns!

All for 240 Pts?!

It's far too deadly , for 80 pts. In every game I ahve played , his Doom Diver takes at least 200-300 Pts of my knights/pistoliers/characters out of the game.

Ridiculous

It can only really take out characters that aren't in units, which frankly is just asking for it....

so basically your engineer is probably the only unit in danger.

Dunno doesn't seem that bad to me?

[mr chumley warner]

It's Wizard's that i don't like to put in units.

They tend to get mashed too soon in CC.

As you say, on their own they can get doom dived though.

[Finlay]

or cannoned, or warp lighting cannoned, or trebucheted, or rock lobbad, or bolt throwered...

There is a reason you put characters in units!

It's far too deadly , for 80 pts. In every game I ahve played , his Doom Diver takes at least 200-300 Pts of my knights/pistoliers/characters out of the game.

Ridiculous

Do you think its ridiculous when your cannon kills your opposition giant in one shot?

[mr chumley warner]

Do you think its ridiculous when your cannon kills your opposition giant in one shot?

Yes

U should have seen his face when I rolled 6 wounds on D6, lol

[mr chumley warner]

Would you say for instance that it is wise to use a Captasus or Wizard on Pegasas , given that they could be easily instantly killed by Doom Diver ?

[Alleton]

Would you say for instance that it is wise to use a Captasus or Wizard on Pegasus , given that they could be easily instantly killed by Doom Diver ?

It's risk assessment. Each tactic brings with it inherent (Possible) benefits and dangers. It's our job as generals to weigh these risks and choose the most appropriate tactic for the immediate situation.

[Finlay]

With a flying wizard I'd use a 4+ ward item.

With the captasus- isn't hunting artillery one of his jobs? The doom diver will only get one shot to kill him.
It then needs to not misfire, not scatter too far, not roll a 1 or 2 to wound, and then not roll a 1 or 2 for number of wounds.

[mr chumley warner]

sure you are right, it would need to be lucky to kill him 1st turn if he had 3 wounds.

I don't believe you can use a Ward Save Item , as the doom diver hits automatically and allows no armour saves.

I'm a newbie, so I assume that means no ward saves allowed?

[rufus sparkfire]

I'm a newbie, so I assume that means no ward saves allowed?

No, just armor saves. Ward or regeneration still work.

[Delthos]

sure you are right, it would need to be lucky to kill him 1st turn if he had 3 wounds.

I don't believe you can use a Ward Save Item , as the doom diver hits automatically and allows no armour saves.

I'm a newbie, so I assume that means no ward saves allowed?

As Rufus says, the ward saves and regen saves are allowed as they are not Armor Saves. They are saves, just a different type. No Armor Saves, is just no armor saves.

There are things that do not allow any type of save and those are spells with "with no saves of any kind allowed." listed in their descriptions. Those mean, no armor saves, no ward saves, and no Regeneration saves.

[Novogord]

If I played Orcs I would have 3 Doom Divers !

You could snipe all the Empire Characters in two turns!

All for 240 Pts?!

It's far too deadly , for 80 pts. In every game I ahve played , his Doom Diver takes at least 200-300 Pts of my knights/pistoliers/characters out of the game.

Ridiculous

It is only deadly when you have luck, that is just the orc and goblin army. They can be very good and kill much, or get very fast killed.

I would think about two, but certainly not three. Just to much risk.

[themightybiggun]

If I played Orcs I would have 3 Doom Divers !

You could snipe all the Empire Characters in two turns!

All for 240 Pts?!

It's far too deadly , for 80 pts. In every game I ahve played , his Doom Diver takes at least 200-300 Pts of my knights/pistoliers/characters out of the game.

Ridiculous

It is only deadly when you have luck, that is just the orc and goblin army. They can be very good and kill much, or get very fast killed.

I would think about two, but certainly not three. Just to much risk.

Under 3000 points they can only take 2 anyway, its a rare choice.

[GambitGriffin]

I think the doom diver is less dangerous in 8th with all the bigger blocks running around. I don't know with you guys but I dont often use small units of knights anymore. Never really seems to have enough points for that because there is always something better to field...

[milo]

It's Wizard's that i don't like to put in units.

They tend to get mashed too soon in CC.

As you say, on their own they can get doom dived though.

If this is troubling you perhaps you should invest in a cheapish bunker for your mage that you keep out of close combat? Take a few pages out of the VC book....

[mr chumley warner]

It's ok , i've been an idiot.

I'm newish to WHFB, and had assumed that ''no armour saves'' included Ward Saves.

I'll give my Wizard a 4/5+ ward item and then sit him near a rank of troops for LOS roll.

Easy

[Finlay]

or keep him in a unit and then pop him out when combat is about to start.

[GambitGriffin]

Or keep him in a horde unit in a corner far from enemies. Just watch out for the strength 10 template! 

[SmokinBrown]

If I played Orcs I would have 3 Doom Divers !

You could snipe all the Empire Characters in two turns!

All for 240 Pts?!

It's far too deadly , for 80 pts. In every game I ahve played , his Doom Diver takes at least 200-300 Pts of my knights/pistoliers/characters out of the game.

Ridiculous

It is only deadly when you have luck, that is just the orc and goblin army. They can be very good and kill much, or get very fast killed.

I would think about two, but certainly not three. Just to much risk.

Under 3000 points they can only take 2 anyway, its a rare choice.

Those rules no longer apply. you can now spend up to 25% of your points on rare coices. so at 3000 points they could take 9 doom divers if they wanted. Or is there a limit on the number you can take under the unit description?

[Fandir Nightshade]

Isn´t there a rule that states that you can only double rare units and quadruple them above 3000 unless you are an elite army (like High Elves)