home

Author Topic: How does an AL and Walter's armour and ward work?  (Read 10144 times)

Offline FearlessFred

  • Members
  • Posts: 159
How does an AL and Walter's armour and ward work?
« on: January 16, 2012, 09:40:53 PM »
if i gave him dawn armour does the 5+ of the walter stack with the 4+ of the dawn armour?
How are wounds allocated?
Does it move 7 because of the barded horses?
Can the walter be killed but the AL still be alive?

Offline Freman Bloodglaive

  • Members
  • Posts: 1033
Re: How does an AL and Walter's armour and ward work?
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2012, 10:05:09 PM »
if i gave him dawn armour does the 5+ of the walter stack with the 4+ of the dawn armour?
How are wounds allocated?
Does it move 7 because of the barded horses?
Can the walter be killed but the AL still be alive?

No, he gets +1 save because of being on the alter. Dawn armour, shield, WAlter = 2+ save.
Randomised for shooting, selected in combat I'm guessing.
Yes.
Yes.
"Reason is a thing of God, inasmuch as there is nothing which God the Maker of all has not provided, disposed, ordained by reason - nothing which He has not willed should be handled and understood by reason" Quintus Tertullian

Offline FearlessFred

  • Members
  • Posts: 159
Re: How does an AL and Walter's armour and ward work?
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2012, 10:15:02 PM »
thanks,
any bonus for having barded steeds? (on the walter or AL himself?)

So my oppenent can choose to hit the AL or walter in CC?

Offline TheBelgianGuy

  • Members
  • Posts: 548
Re: How does an AL and Walter's armour and ward work?
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2012, 10:40:43 PM »
Barded steeds give 2x S3 hits in combat. I'm not quite sure why they're barded. Does a chariot with normal horses give no extra armour save.
Swiftstride too.

Opponent can choose to hit either AL or WAltar in CC. For ranged, it uses normal randomisation (or hit both in case of a template, I assume).

Now, does the ward save from the WAlter stack? Haven't got the rulebook on me atm, but I seem to remember different wardsaves do not stack...
Anyway, that's a 4++ to AL and WAlter. AND, Magic resistance (2).
You can't put him in a unit though, can you? That would be too much, I guess.

Offline FearlessFred

  • Members
  • Posts: 159
Re: How does an AL and Walter's armour and ward work?
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2012, 10:56:10 PM »
so the AL has a 3+reroll, 4+ward because of 4+ReRollable  from dawn armour, +1 to armour from being on a chariot and 4+ ward from the walter rule.  +1 from charoit.

the walter itself only has a 5+, 4+ ward?

Offline TheBelgianGuy

  • Members
  • Posts: 548
Re: How does an AL and Walter's armour and ward work?
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2012, 11:15:04 PM »
3+ Rerol, and 4+ ward, yes.

WAltar 'only' has 5+ save and 4+ Ward. (Then again it does have T5, so it's not like it's going to die easily).

Offline Mr.Carloff

  • Members
  • Posts: 171
  • The haughty adventurer.
Re: How does an AL and Walter's armour and ward work?
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2012, 02:14:23 PM »
He got a 2+ rerolable. Check the mount rule in BRB.
"... Fear not the Steam Tank or Hochland long rifle, for the roaring drunk halberdiers are more dangerous, and infinitely more common - in all sense of the word."
- Sir Gilbert de Arnaud, "Letters Ho

Offline Fandir Nightshade

  • Members
  • Posts: 10167
Re: How does an AL and Walter's armour and ward work?
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2012, 02:18:45 PM »
When he uses a shield....yes.

Also important bit I didn´t know for a long time...attacks vs the Altar are against the Ws of the Horsies.

Offline Mr.Carloff

  • Members
  • Posts: 171
  • The haughty adventurer.
Re: How does an AL and Walter's armour and ward work?
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2012, 02:53:19 PM »
Ohh, are you serious? Pages - 104, 105, 84, 85 in BRB.
"... Fear not the Steam Tank or Hochland long rifle, for the roaring drunk halberdiers are more dangerous, and infinitely more common - in all sense of the word."
- Sir Gilbert de Arnaud, "Letters Ho

Offline Fandir Nightshade

  • Members
  • Posts: 10167
Re: How does an AL and Walter's armour and ward work?
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2012, 03:01:49 PM »
Ok I don´t get your post.....do you disagree?

The chariot is treated like a ridden monster so you take the best available profile of said model....if you attack a Dragon an elf is sitting on which Ws do you use?

It is something different if he sits on a horse or a Pegasus. But I would gladly convince myself of the opposite as the fencers blades would be awesome on a War Altar.

Offline Delthos

  • Members
  • Posts: 4647
  • Evil Polish Guy
Re: How does an AL and Walter's armour and ward work?
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2012, 03:40:43 PM »
Barded steeds give 2x S3 hits in combat. I'm not quite sure why they're barded. Does a chariot with normal horses give no extra armour save.
Swiftstride too.

Opponent can choose to hit either AL or WAltar in CC. For ranged, it uses normal randomisation (or hit both in case of a template, I assume).

Now, does the ward save from the WAlter stack? Haven't got the rulebook on me atm, but I seem to remember different wardsaves do not stack...
Anyway, that's a 4++ to AL and WAlter. AND, Magic resistance (2).
You can't put him in a unit though, can you? That would be too much, I guess.

Ward saves do not stack, you use the best one a model has, but Magic Resisteance does modify an existing Wardsave. However, remember the magic resistence only applies against wounds caused by spells, and even then only against those that allow them to be taken. They so weakened MR in 8th edition that it is almost laughable.
Ostermark Photo Gallery
Ostermark Painting Log
"Kill 'em all and let Morr sort 'em out!" (General Ghent, Battle of Dumsky's Fallow)

Offline Mr.Carloff

  • Members
  • Posts: 171
  • The haughty adventurer.
Re: How does an AL and Walter's armour and ward work?
« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2012, 09:58:16 AM »
Ok I don´t get your post.....do you disagree?
page 105 - chariot mount is ridden monster
page 105 - ridden monster give 1 armor save as cavalry rule at page 82
page 82 - bla bla bla page 83 cavalry armor saves - barding counts for rider save
"... Fear not the Steam Tank or Hochland long rifle, for the roaring drunk halberdiers are more dangerous, and infinitely more common - in all sense of the word."
- Sir Gilbert de Arnaud, "Letters Ho

Offline Fandir Nightshade

  • Members
  • Posts: 10167
Re: How does an AL and Walter's armour and ward work?
« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2012, 11:01:48 AM »
Please take your time to elaborate what point you try to make.

The barding of the chariot doesn´t add to the save of the Arch Lector as the chariot is a ridden monster and NOT cavalry.


Offline Eighty

  • Members
  • Posts: 1038
Re: How does an AL and Walter's armour and ward work?
« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2012, 11:26:20 AM »
3+ Rerol, and 4+ ward, yes.

WAltar 'only' has 5+ save and 4+ Ward. (Then again it does have T5, so it's not like it's going to die easily).

true but between the two of them it will usually die first (who wants to hit a 2+ rerollable 4++ healing arch lector)

the AL heal doesnt work on his altar unfortunatly, that would make it pretty awesome
Trumpets sound around me, the wind blowing through my hair, as fellow gamers look in awe at my Army, secretly wishing they chose empire instead of their stupid rats

Offline FearlessFred

  • Members
  • Posts: 159
Re: How does an AL and Walter's armour and ward work?
« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2012, 12:27:20 PM »
does barding not give +1 to the walter's 5+ save? why would the most awesome chariot the empire have have worse armour than an orc chariot?

Offline Syn Ace

  • Members
  • Posts: 4761
  • Misinterpreting GW rules since 1991
Re: How does an AL and Walter's armour and ward work?
« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2012, 05:04:18 PM »
The only thing the barding does is slow it down an inch.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2012, 07:36:36 AM by Syn Ace »
Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, first make sure that you are not, in fact, just surrounding yourself with assholes.

— Popularly but incorrectly attributed to William Gibson

Offline Moriar

  • Members
  • Posts: 360
    • http://www.facebook.com/martindahl2
Re: How does an AL and Walter's armour and ward work?
« Reply #16 on: January 18, 2012, 08:33:21 PM »
Barded steeds give 2x S3 hits in combat. I'm not quite sure why they're barded. Does a chariot with normal horses give no extra armour save.
Swiftstride too.

Sadly barding only affects movement like Syn Ace states.
My Nuln army painting log
And the generals gave thanks. As the other ranks, held back the enemy tanks! For a while. -Pink Floyd

Offline Smithy

  • Members
  • Posts: 128
Re: How does an AL and Walter's armour and ward work?
« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2012, 03:17:08 AM »
wow ur making it confusing

Dawn Armor 4+
Mounted 3+
Barding 2+
Shield(if equipped) 1+

All Rerollable from dawn armor

4+ Ward save from chariot.

In Close combat attacks can be targeted at either the Chariot or the AL.  Chariot Ac is 5+ 4+ ward.

Templet wepons hit both chariot and Al.  Bs Shooting attacks (i dont know sorry) but i think it is randomized via mounted monsters should tell u in chariot rules.

Offline Syn Ace

  • Members
  • Posts: 4761
  • Misinterpreting GW rules since 1991
Re: How does an AL and Walter's armour and ward work?
« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2012, 07:54:18 AM »
Barding doesn't help the Arch Lector -- it's only good for a cavalry model, not a ridden monster "If a character is riding a monster, it does not use the rules for cavalry or monstrous cavalry, but rather those given here." p.105. It does go on to say characters get the +1 for riding a monster.
Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, first make sure that you are not, in fact, just surrounding yourself with assholes.

— Popularly but incorrectly attributed to William Gibson

Offline Mr.Carloff

  • Members
  • Posts: 171
  • The haughty adventurer.
Re: How does an AL and Walter's armour and ward work?
« Reply #19 on: January 19, 2012, 08:38:13 AM »
Please take your time to elaborate what point you try to make.

The barding of the chariot doesn´t add to the save of the Arch Lector as the chariot is a ridden monster and NOT cavalry.
Chariot have a save 5+ (page 53 Empire army book)
...if mout have a barding (i.e. armour of it's own), the rider's armour save is increased by two points bla bla bla (page 83 BRB)
then page 105 send us from Riden monsters armour saves to page 84 to cavalry rules.
"... Fear not the Steam Tank or Hochland long rifle, for the roaring drunk halberdiers are more dangerous, and infinitely more common - in all sense of the word."
- Sir Gilbert de Arnaud, "Letters Ho

Offline Fandir Nightshade

  • Members
  • Posts: 10167
Re: How does an AL and Walter's armour and ward work?
« Reply #20 on: January 19, 2012, 08:51:14 AM »
Which is wrong as it is not cavalry but a ridden monster.

Also the "mount" is not barded only the horses pulling it.

Offline Smithy

  • Members
  • Posts: 128
Re: How does an AL and Walter's armour and ward work?
« Reply #21 on: January 20, 2012, 03:11:38 AM »
Which is wrong as it is not cavalry but a ridden monster.

Also the "mount" is not barded only the horses pulling it.

dont word fuck it its the rules its the entire model.

Offline Syn Ace

  • Members
  • Posts: 4761
  • Misinterpreting GW rules since 1991
Re: How does an AL and Walter's armour and ward work?
« Reply #22 on: January 20, 2012, 04:08:45 AM »
No one is word fucking anything.

"Chariots have a fixed armor save, as detailed in their army list entry. Such an armour save takes into account the hardiness of the of the chariot, the armour worn by the crew and any barding on the mounts (but barding still slows the model down)." p86.

So you don't sit there figuring out the various components of a chariot's save -- it's already done for you. If you look in the Empire army book, the armor save for the war altar is fixed at a 5+ (unless they've updated it in the FAQ - I haven't run one in awhile). Normally a chariot's armor save applies to the chariot as a whole and includes the crew (you never put wounds on the crew, you put them on the chariot). However, when you put a character on a chariot, it becomes a Ridden Monster, so the chariot as a whole has it's save and the character has his own save based on his armor (though he does get a +1 bonus for being on a Ridden Monster p.82).

So, the war altar gets it's 5+ armor save and a ward save of 4+ and the Arch Lector gets an armor save of however you kit him out and an additional +1 for being on the war altar -- and he also gets the 4+ ward save.

What probably muddles things is that most chariots carrying a character still have a crew that is considered part of the chariot, but not so the war altar -- it just has the Arch Lector (I wonder if this will change in our new book?) -- and he doesn't count as crew -- and it continues fighting even if he is killed, motivated by the will of Sigmar, no doubt.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2012, 05:47:39 PM by Syn Ace »
Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, first make sure that you are not, in fact, just surrounding yourself with assholes.

— Popularly but incorrectly attributed to William Gibson

Offline Delthos

  • Members
  • Posts: 4647
  • Evil Polish Guy
Re: How does an AL and Walter's armour and ward work?
« Reply #23 on: January 20, 2012, 06:57:55 AM »
Smithy, please watch the f-bombs. This is supposed to be a family friendly forum.
Ostermark Photo Gallery
Ostermark Painting Log
"Kill 'em all and let Morr sort 'em out!" (General Ghent, Battle of Dumsky's Fallow)

Offline Fandir Nightshade

  • Members
  • Posts: 10167
Re: How does an AL and Walter's armour and ward work?
« Reply #24 on: January 20, 2012, 09:00:26 AM »
Agreed to Delthos, also why do you guys want to make the War Altar even more powerful? Even the +1 for being mounted is fantastic arguing that he also has barding is just pushing it.

Syn Ace has nailed it exactly if you disagree figure it out in your gaming group the brb doesn´t support your claim though.