Topic: Feedback appreciated for my 2000 pt (6th ed)

[Joe Red Teeth]

Hi, I'd like to try some ogres in my list and that required a little shuffle. I have all the models listed, although I could buy a 5th ogre if I dropped some spearmen (but I like my big block of spearmen).

Heroes and lack of Lord. I normally take a Wizard Lord, Is taking two lvl 2 wizards ok instead? I use 'Lore of the Heavens' because of the rerolls. I use a a Captain because when I go Elector Count on Pegasus or Griffon, they always die quick.

I'm not a fan of cannons or volley guns, because I'm cursed (one roll of artillery dice is my limit, so Mortar is fine).

EDIT: I have reworked this list a few posts down 

Heroes;

LvL 2 Wizard
Warhorse, Barding, 'Armour of Tarnus'

LvL 2 Wizard
On foot, no items, joins the Greatswords.

Captain
Pegasus, Full Plate, Shield, Great Weapon, 'The White Cloak'

Core;

10 Knights of the White Wolf
Champion, Standard, Knights of the inner circle (+1s)

5 Knights Panther
Champion, Standard

25 Spearmen
Champion, Standard, Musician, Shields

10 Handgunners

10 Handgunners

Special;

11 Greatswords (Wizard on foot joins these)
Champion, Standard
8 Swordsmen Detachment.

Mortar Team

5 Pistoliers
Champion with Repeater Pistol

5 Pistoliers
Champion with Repeater Pistol

Rare;

Golgfag's Mercenary Ogres (Dog of War)
4x Ogres
Champion, Standard, Musician.

[GamesPoet]

I'm not familiar with the point amounts any more because I haven't played 6th in quite awhile.  However, I'd consider having a cannon or two, perhaps things like dropping the larger Knights down to 5 figures, removing a pistolier unit, maybe even the mortar, all depending on how the point totals look.

It seems like a decent list you've got going there, and welcome to Warhammer-Empire!

[Fidelis von Sigmaringen]

For some reason, my previous post disappeared. So, here it it is again (as far as I can remember):

Welcome!

Some incoherent remarks:

- Having two lvl 2 Wizards is fine, but I am not a fan of the Armour of Tarnus. I always took the Rod of Power and a Dispel Scroll. For self-protection in CC, you could consider the Speculum.

- For points elsewhere, consider dropping the champions in the units of Knights. In the smaller unit. you might drop the Standard too for a Musician.

-  The 11 model units of Greatswords can only have a 6 model Detachment.

- The Mortar is good, but without at least one cannon, the Empire is vulnerable against big nasties.

To add: Elector Counts should never be on a Pegasus or Griffon, but in a unit. You take him for Ld9 and the Magic (invariably Griffon) Banner for a State Troop unit. In a unit, with shield, Dawn Armour & the Holy Relic, he is almost indestructible.

The role of the Captain seems already covered by the Pistoliers.

[GamesPoet]

I concur with Fidelis on the wizards forgoing the Tarnus Armour, and going with Rod of Power and Dispel scroll instead.  His idea on the standard being dropped for a musician is also good.  And I'd forgotten about the greatswords only being able to have a detachment half the size of the parent unit, so a good catch on that one, too.

[Joe Red Teeth]

Why don't you like Armour of Tarnus? is it because it uses up too much of the magic item point allowance for the character?

Will modify the Knights Panther unit so they have a musician instead of champion and standard. I think I have the parts to make a musician.

-  The 11 model units of Greatswords can only have a 6 model Detachment.

ugh. I can't believe I overlooked that. thank you. Will have the 8 join the spearmen.

[Zygmund]

No battle standard?

11 Greatswords either is too few, or you have planned a very specific role for them. Babysitting for a Wizard can be done by a cheaper unit, and the heavy hitters in your army are the 10-man knight unit and the Ogres.

About the Armour of Tarnus:

My feeling is that any armour on a wizard is generally wasted. But are you planning to run the mounted wizard alone, without a unit? The Light Armour aspect is probably irrelevant, and even with the horse & barding, the wizard will be vulnerable on his own. S4 is pretty average on the WHFB battlefields, so this is in essence a 5+ save at the most. The 5+ Ward Save might do something. Then again for a 2 Wounds character that might not be enough. 44 per cent of S4 attacks will still wound him, and those attacks will be forthcoming if the opponent sees the opportunity & feels the need to bring the wizard down. I think the armour could give the wizard an extra turn alive. Not insignificant, but maybe not that important in the end.

It's a tricky question. If you really really need points for your fighting units, the Armour of Tarnus would be a good place to save points, IMHO.

Lastly, I'd echo the importance of cannons for Empire. It's psychological, because opponents do fear them to a degree. So they act as area denial defensive, even if you don't actually fire them. I agree losing a cannon for a misfire is frustrating, but that hasn't stopped me from including cannons in my lists.

-Z

[Joe Red Teeth]

11 Greatswords either is too few, or you have planned a very specific role for them. Babysitting for a Wizard can be done by a cheaper unit, and the heavy hitters in your army are the 10-man knight unit and the Ogres.

Do you think 14 greatswords is enough for babysitting? I can raise it up to that without purchasing any new models (which I'm trying to avoid, because its pretty hard these days).

My feeling is that any armour on a wizard is generally wasted. But are you planning to run the mounted wizard alone, without a unit? The Light Armour aspect is probably irrelevant, and even with the horse & barding, the wizard will be vulnerable on his own.

Yes, the mounted wizard normally moves around hiding behind scenery. 'Lore of the Heavens' doesn't need range or line of sight for 2/3rds of the spells.

Lastly, I'd echo the importance of cannons for Empire. It's psychological, because opponents do fear them to a degree.

The Cannon was something I dropped a long time ago for pistoliers. When I lose a cannon it feels like I've lost the game right there and then. I've ended up with four bolt-throwers in my dwarf army, instead of cannons, just because of how disappointing rolling misfire after misfire can be.

I'm really hoping the ogres and big block of knights will be more reliable fighting monsters.

Thank you for the feedback everyone, I've reworked the list a little.

[Joe Red Teeth]

Heroes;

LvL 2 Wizard
Warhorse, Dispel Scroll

LvL 2 Wizard
Rod of Power

Captain
Pegasus, Great Weapon, 'Armour of Meteoric Iron'.

Core;

10 Knights of the White Wolf
Champion, Standard, Knights of the inner circle (+1s)

5 Knights Panther
Musician

10 Handgunners

25 Spearmen
Champion, Standard, Musician, Shields
- 8 Swordsmen Detachment.
- 8 Handgunners Detachment.

Special;

14 Greatswords (Wizard on foot joins these)
Champion, Standard

Mortar Team

5 Pistoliers
Champion with Repeater Pistol

5 Pistoliers
Champion with Repeater Pistol

Rare;

Golgfag's Mercenary Ogres (Dog of War)
4x Ogres
Champion, Standard, Musician.

[Zygmund]

11 Greatswords either is too few, or you have planned a very specific role for them. Babysitting for a Wizard can be done by a cheaper unit, and the heavy hitters in your army are the 10-man knight unit and the Ogres.

Do you think 14 greatswords is enough for babysitting? I can raise it up to that without purchasing any new models (which I'm trying to avoid, because its pretty hard these days).

I meant you don't need Greatswords to babysit a wizard. Cheaper infantry will do it finely. Especially skirmishers, i.e. Archers, because of their freer movement, -1 to being hit, and the ability to influence the battle without going to melee.

But if Greatswords are the only models you have to spare for this purpose, I'd take them at the minimum 10 and without command.

-Z