Topic: AoS Rules Questions

[StealthKnightSteg]

Shooting:
Since there does not appear to be any rule regarding line of sight, units are free to shoot at anything in range?  That is, they can shoot in any direction, through any terrain, and through any other models (friend and foe alike) correct?

EDIT:  Also, what is the point of the melee weapon ranges?   In the comat phase does that range limit which models can attack?

The rules simply say that your shooters can shoot at any enemy, in range, they can see. This might require you and your opponent to come to some type of understanding beforehand. In my games we play with the rule that if another unit of the same height is in between the shooter and target then they can't shoot. But for example if my Greatswords are fighting ogres then the handgunners behind the greatswords can shoot due to the height difference.

Melee range is important in the pile in phase. You can position your unit in ways that models that aren't up against the target can still attack if they are within their range of attack. For example spearmen can attack things 2 inches away so most likely your entire unit is going to get attacks. Remember you aren't aligning Tetris shapes anymore you are literally surrounding, or trying to, the enemy.

So spearmen measure their range from the tip of their spear (which can be some distance away from their body, depending on modelling) and also get additional range because they're carrying a spear. Makes sense!

Every now and again this ruleset really does throw up something that strongly suggests it was written in a lunch break (the legacy warscrolls have "Friday afternoon" written all over them). I do think the whole hangs together better than is sometimes suggested - though it's still not to my taste - but there's also a lot of evidence of a lack of joined-up-thinking throughout.

To be honest, I would like to get in an older rule about TLOS... I know start booing etc.. but everything that isn't a bodypart doesn't count towards the model.. so weapons, plumes, standards etc do not count towards measuring range.. This seems most fair when taking melee range into consideration.

[Baron von Klatz]

Summoning seems incredibly powerful when reading the warscrolls, but the fact of the matter is that they are the least powerful spells in the game right now: because all summoned model might as well have been placed on the battlefield right from the start, without spending bind attempts on them.

If you can summon units, you can keep your initial force smaller, reducing the chance of giving the opponent a sudden death scenario.

However, I am quite baffled by the whole summoning thing.

This provides an interesting perspective on summoning.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/655504.page

[Guildenstern]

i guess some of you read all available war scrolls. So where do I find rules or "rule templates" for my classic empire troops who are not in the empire Warscroll, yet:
-all DoW esp. RoR
-or at least pikes
-empirial Giants
-empirial ogres
-halfling archers/spearmen
-empirial dwarfs
-skaw the falconer (oops, wrong lore )
- the whole empirial zoo as in 4th ed


For the dwarfs the "count as state troops" may be still a valid choice (esp 'coz I mixed them with my halberders)


Also: do I understand this right? As Woodelf I now field my own pieces of terrain using a war scroll?

[Syn Ace]

It's only 8th editions stuff. So unless someone comes up with something on his own, you're probably out of luck.

[Deuce]

i guess some of you read all available war scrolls. So where do I find rules or "rule templates" for my classic empire troops who are not in the empire Warscroll, yet:
-all DoW esp. RoR
-or at least pikes
-empirial Giants
-empirial ogres
-halfling archers/spearmen
-empirial dwarfs
-skaw the falconer (oops, wrong lore )
- the whole empirial zoo as in 4th ed


For the dwarfs the "count as state troops" may be still a valid choice (esp 'coz I mixed them with my halberders)


Also: do I understand this right? As Woodelf I now field my own pieces of terrain using a war scroll?

With no limits on army composition, you can mix and match warscrolls from different lists with impunity. So just borrow whichever warscroll you think most appropriate from the Ogre/Dwarf list for those units: most likely Maneaters and Dwarf Warriors. For Giants just take the Ogre or Orc and Goblin Giant (the rules are, I think, identical). Likewise for the Imperial Zoo: take the Hydra from the Dark Elf list, and the Chimera and Cockatrice from the Warriors of Chaos list. Hippogriffs and Manticores might require a slight fudge as I think they're only included as mounts, but it should be simple to separate out the mount profile from the rider in the Bretonnian and Warriors of Chaos warscrolls.

Dogs of War and Halflings are more of a problem, as they don't have any 8th ed Studio rules and so haven't got Warscrolls. Sadly your best bet is probably finding the appropriate State Troops unit and doing a counts-as for them. It is possible Forge World might do Warscrolls for their stuff if they haven't already, which might prove an option for some DoW at least.

[GamesPoet]

Look at chapter 3, column 2, para 3 in volume 2 of the errata for the answer. Although you'll have to refer to the third print appendix section 12b for the clarification of said errata. I'd write out the full rule for you here but I think the post-character limit would be exceeded.

- - -

In actuality, since the rules are only 4 pages long, the rest is all houe rules.

[Dosiere]

Who determines if when shooting at a war machine the attacks are made against the machine or the crew?  Does the attacking player choose either the crew or machine to shoot at or is it one unit and therefore the defender can allocate wounds to the machine if they want to?

[StealthKnightSteg]

Who determines if when shooting at a war machine the attacks are made against the machine or the crew?  Does the attacking player choose either the crew or machine to shoot at or is it one unit and therefore the defender can allocate wounds to the machine if they want to?

I think you can nominate which of the 2 you are shooting at, the warmachine or it's crew.
Though the (taking the empire cannon as an example) cannon has 4 wounds and the crew only 3 together, the cannon has a 4+ save and the crew a 6+ Save but a cover bonus if within 1" of the warmachine.

[iatroblast]

i understand this differently. In the Crew's Abilities of the Empire Cannon writes: "The Crew are in cover while they are within 1" of their war machine." That clearly indicates that they use the cannon as a protective barrier. Isn't this what their 4+ save represents?

[iatroblast]

I think i couldn't be more wrong about  this. The rulebook says that 'by cover, it means you add 1 to all save rolls. StealthKnightSteg is right. sorry

[SoonerSox]

I wonder why they separated crew and Warmachine profiles while combining profiles for riders and mounts (ie Franz and DC). It is a bit frustrating that people can just shoot the crew.

[SoonerSox]

Here is a question that came up in my games this past weekend. Is there anything in the rules which prevents the stacking of multiple Mystic Shield spells on a single unit. We could not find anything that would indicate that each subsequent Mystic Shield would not lower the Save roll by one point.

*Edit: I actually see the limitation now after re-reading the spell. It adds one to your dice roll. It doesn't actually modify the save value. It's just odd to think of a spell modifying dice rolls instead of a profile stat in a "role playing" sense. I think it's intent is that no matter how many mystic shields are on the unit, they still just add one to the roll.

[Dosiere]

You're talking about having more than one wizard cast mystic shield on the same unit in the same hero phase?

[StealthKnightSteg]

I wonder why they separated crew and Warmachine profiles while combining profiles for riders and mounts (ie Franz and DC). It is a bit frustrating that people can just shoot the crew.

If a Warmachine is destroyed and the crew lives it can aid another warmachine that lacks crew.

[SoonerSox]

You're talking about having more than one wizard cast mystic shield on the same unit in the same hero phase?

Yes. For example, a WP with shield has a save of 3+. 2 wizards successfully cast mystic shield on the WP. There has been interpretation that when you roll for the save this would add 2 to the roll.

[Dosiere]

I don't see why it wouldn't be cumulative.  You could with this create a unit that essentially auto-saves.  Mortal wounds would still get through though.  I've looked at the rules again and RAW I would say it stacks, I can't see anything that prevents it from doing so.

[SoonerSox]

I don't see why it wouldn't be cumulative.  You could with this create a unit that essentially auto-saves.  Mortal wounds would still get through though.  I've looked at the rules again and RAW I would say it stacks, I can't see anything that prevents it from doing so.

That being the case, I wonder if they intended for it to be stacked. I'm actually looking forward to their first rules revisions. I'd also like to see the sylvaneth tree lord ancient tags removed from Karl Franz in the AoS app! I wonder how that got through quality control.

[Dosiere]

I would be tempted to say they know that it could stack, although of course RAI is always a dark and terrible path to tread.  It's like the summoning debate about having to take a unit on the table to be able to summon it.  Many feel it's RAI to require it, yet there is no RAW support for this interpretation.  I know many people (myself included) have managed to get confused by AoS rules because we're trying too hard and overthinking it, and unknowingly applying our own logic about how we assume certain things should work based on precious war gaming experience.  In the case of mystic shield there is no hidden mechanic somewhere that further explains it, it simply does exactly what it says.

 It's an aspect of AoS that is both refreshing and frustrating all at the same time.

[StealthKnightSteg]

I would be ok with it stacking, what is missing in the 4 page rule set though is a little note about that a 1 is always a miss/failure, that would atleast make things not invincible.

[SoonerSox]

The celestial hurricanum states that a wizard tending it can cast 1 spell during the hero phase. It proceeds to list the 2 standard wizard spells and adds comet of Cassandora as a third. Do people interpret this to be in addition to the spells a wizard already knows and can cast? For example, could a life wizard on the hurricanum cast 2 spells in the hero phase with access to Mage bolt, mystic shield, comet and lifebloom?

[Dosiere]

No I don't think so.  While a wizard can know how to cast more and more spells, it's still limited by the fact he can only cast x number per turn. 

I would be ok with it stacking, what is missing in the 4 page rule set though is a little note about that a 1 is always a miss/failure, that would atleast make things not invincible.

There are no natural rolls in AoS unless specifically stated in a special rule.  For example, you'll notice it's possible to roll a 7 on a d6, and conceivably a negative number or 0 as well.  Another example, casting mystic shield on a unit of liberators makes it impossible to actually roll a 1, so you don't get to re roll your ones because they are now 2s.  I saw this other day In a game and the guy trying to re roll his 1s had a really hard time grasping the concept.  The spell doesn't make your save a 3 instead of 4, it means you literally add 1 to your save rolls, simple as that. 

I wouldn't says he idea of a natural roll mechanic ismissing ie it should be there but they forgot, it's not there because the system is assuming you literally add or subtract from a roll exactly as the rules describe.  Again, overthinking it. 

[Dosiere]

The celestial hurricanum states that a wizard tending it can cast 1 spell during the hero phase. It proceeds to list the 2 standard wizard spells and adds comet of Cassandora as a third. Do people interpret this to be in addition to the spells a wizard already knows and can cast? For example, could a life wizard on the hurricanum cast 2 spells in the hero phase with access to Mage bolt, mystic shield, comet and lifebloom?

Ah I think I misunderstood you in my previous post.  No because the wizard does not get his own Warscroll.  when you add a wizard to hurricanum you aren't adding the empire battle wizard Warscroll onto the unit, you dont ever use the empire battle wizard Warscroll.  A wizard on a hurricanum does not know lifebloom for instance.  To get a life wizard with lifebloom you have to take an empire battle wizard, it's different than putting a wizard on top of the hurricaum.  I hope that makes sense.

[StealthKnightSteg]

No I don't think so.  While a wizard can know how to cast more and more spells, it's still limited by the fact he can only cast x number per turn. 

I would be ok with it stacking, what is missing in the 4 page rule set though is a little note about that a 1 is always a miss/failure, that would atleast make things not invincible.

There are no natural rolls in AoS unless specifically stated in a special rule.  For example, you'll notice it's possible to roll a 7 on a d6, and conceivably a negative number or 0 as well.  Another example, casting mystic shield on a unit of liberators makes it impossible to actually roll a 1, so you don't get to re roll your ones because they are now 2s.  I saw this other day In a game and the guy trying to re roll his 1s had a really hard time grasping the concept.  The spell doesn't make your save a 3 instead of 4, it means you literally add 1 to your save rolls, simple as that. 

I wouldn't says he idea of a natural roll mechanic ismissing ie it should be there but they forgot, it's not there because the system is assuming you literally add or subtract from a roll exactly as the rules describe.  Again, overthinking it.

Ah indeed, that makes more sense, leaving certain mechanics in tact and invalidating others.

The celestial hurricanum states that a wizard tending it can cast 1 spell during the hero phase. It proceeds to list the 2 standard wizard spells and adds comet of Cassandora as a third. Do people interpret this to be in addition to the spells a wizard already knows and can cast? For example, could a life wizard on the hurricanum cast 2 spells in the hero phase with access to Mage bolt, mystic shield, comet and lifebloom?

Ah I think I misunderstood you in my previous post.  No because the wizard does not get his own Warscroll.  when you add a wizard to hurricanum you aren't adding the empire battle wizard Warscroll onto the unit, you dont ever use the empire battle wizard Warscroll.  A wizard on a hurricanum does not know lifebloom for instance.  To get a life wizard with lifebloom you have to take an empire battle wizard, it's different than putting a wizard on top of the hurricaum.  I hope that makes sense.

Indeed, it's just another warscroll named "hurricanum with wizard"

[SoonerSox]

Yes I was thinking of it in terms of a battle wizard war scroll using the hurricanum like a mount. So does that also infer that if the hurricanum is destroyed, the wizard doesn't continue on foot? Would this be the same with Volkmar on the War Altar?

[StealthKnightSteg]

indeed, single model, poof gone!