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Author Topic: Interesting article concerning GWs "we are a miniatures company" stance  (Read 12349 times)

Offline Aldaris

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Re: Interesting article concerning GWs "we are a miniatures company" stance
« Reply #25 on: April 08, 2014, 03:52:16 PM »
But variety in general is not a selling point (if I want to collect army X of game Y, I don't really care that they also offer 500 minis for game Z), variety within a model range is. And in that department, they do have competitors.

Offline commandant

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Re: Interesting article concerning GWs "we are a miniatures company" stance
« Reply #26 on: April 09, 2014, 08:59:27 AM »
I disagree with article.

Because GW say they are a miniature company first is why they make unbalanced rules and create power creep. To create demand for the new models. They have no incentive to create a balanced ruleset as long as Johnny joins the hobby, parents buy the army to participate in the battles against his friends, and they end up in a box in the roof 2 years later when Johnny discovers girls.

I feel I am quite a bit more cynical since I was last here... ::heretic:: ::heretic:: ::heretic::

Which they then sell to me for 25 euros.   Its great really :)

Offline Darknight

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Re: Interesting article concerning GWs "we are a miniatures company" stance
« Reply #27 on: April 09, 2014, 11:58:49 AM »
I disagree with article.

Because GW say they are a miniature company first is why they make unbalanced rules and create power creep. To create demand for the new models. They have no incentive to create a balanced ruleset as long as Johnny joins the hobby, parents buy the army to participate in the battles against his friends, and they end up in a box in the roof 2 years later when Johnny discovers girls.

I feel I am quite a bit more cynical since I was last here... ::heretic:: ::heretic:: ::heretic::

Which they then sell to me for 25 euros.   Its great really :)

But what happens when you discover girls, Commandant? :)
« Last Edit: April 09, 2014, 07:34:24 PM by Midaski »
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Offline phillyt

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Re: Interesting article concerning GWs "we are a miniatures company" stance
« Reply #28 on: April 09, 2014, 06:19:40 PM »
When you offer a comprehensive selection of armies for a given system, with great quality across the board, there is something to be said for that.

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Offline Aldaris

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Re: Interesting article concerning GWs "we are a miniatures company" stance
« Reply #29 on: April 09, 2014, 06:28:18 PM »
Yes, and customers have spoken. The article links a survey among independent retailers. They were asked for the 5 most popular miniature wargaming ranges. 40K is first place, still. WHFB isn't even in the top five anymore.

I want GW to do well, so I'm not happy about that. You rightly mention the vast range of great minis they offer, which is true. No other company has that. But customers still leave... so I think the conclusion that many gamers actually are looking for decent rules in their wargame has some merit. And that GW would be well advised to take that into consideration and maybe rethink their stance on this.

Offline oak_prince

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Re: Interesting article concerning GWs "we are a miniatures company" stance
« Reply #30 on: April 09, 2014, 11:53:52 PM »
I wish more people played Fantasy, but I think increased competition is good for the gaming industry as a whole.

GW's slash-and-burn approach to marketing its games is really catching up with them. Plenty of ex-roleplayers talk fondly of old campaigns and that box of DnD books in the attic. People who aren't keeping up with MTG often still have a few casual decks sitting around. But ex-Warhammer fans are often angry and bitter and not shy about warning others away from the game.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2014, 03:14:16 AM by oak_prince »
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Offline phillyt

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Re: Interesting article concerning GWs "we are a miniatures company" stance
« Reply #31 on: April 10, 2014, 02:13:53 AM »
I blame the absurd price more so than the rules. 

Fantasy requires stupid numbers of minis and has a sloppy, random rule set to go with them.

40k at least lets you make pew pew noises and has no valid competition!
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Offline Grutch

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Re: Interesting article concerning GWs "we are a miniatures company" stance
« Reply #32 on: April 10, 2014, 06:28:31 AM »
I blame the absurd price more so than the rules. 

Fantasy requires stupid numbers of minis and has a sloppy, random rule set to go with them.

40k at least lets you make pew pew noises and has no valid competition!

It's the prices for sure.  I couldn't get wealthy game designers at Bungie with plenty of disposable income and a love for the warhammer universe to play warhammer in our minigames employee club.  They all wanted to play warmahordes because it's cheaper, better supported, etc. 

Offline DariusZero

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Re: Interesting article concerning GWs "we are a miniatures company" stance
« Reply #33 on: April 10, 2014, 07:24:13 AM »
There are a couple of reasons why WHF isn't in top 5 any more.

Prices, because you need big units and a couple of characters, all that summed up means big cash, and that's something an adult gamer in modern times isn't willing to pay for toy soldiers. With other companies and even 40k you need of everything less which means you don't have to sell your kidney and you can even buy and drink some beers while you play the game.You can get the whole faction  from other companies for the price of two units for WHF.

Size of the game, the number of models you need to play is ridiculous, you can't even use your kitchen table, you need a specialy constructed fricking gaming board, and where do you put it , when you are done with playing? Hello.
Besides, grown men feel a bit uncertain to be putting such vast numbers of toy soldiers on the table and then you even play with them, what if an attractive chick sees you? You loose your cool status forever. With other companies and 40k it's easier to pretend those 10 models are just randomly standing there and you are just having a friendly chat with your friends.

Time, I mean you need at least 2 hours, sometimes even more, a lot more to finish the game. When I still used to play with my son, we had to make a break for a night and continue the next day, while all the models stayed there on the giant gaming board. And how many gamers can afford to spend so many hours just for one game? And then you call for a rematch? Sorry, I won't have the time. I'm gonna have a quick match of malifaux with another mate during my coffee break.

Painting, so how many hours do I need to paint the 2000 points army. I mean days, sorry I wanted to ask , how many months? Who on earth spends months to paint just one faction to be able to play the game? No wonder malifaux and warmahordes are popular, you need at most a week to paint those 10 models.

Rules, omg I need to buy a separate book to play this, and it has  200 pages, and then I have to memorise all that? and on top of that a have to buy a separate army book, with hard covers and luxuriously illustrated, and I have to follow the forums to see what has changed in the rules, because they are constantly changing and then you even tell me that in 4 years all will be obsolete and I wil have to buy a new edition? Which will cost me twice as much and still the rules will be broken, because it's the concept of the WHF to create unbalanced factions, because the company in this way forces people to buy constantly new everything? Otherwise nobody will wan't to play with me.
Maybe I would better check the latest rules for my  MTG deck and download them online for free.

No gaming community forum, that's something every other company has. That's probably becasue, they don't really care what the people who are buying their products really think. Which means I just lost 10 minutes of my life typing this, because those that would need to read it, won't.

Which basically means that the statement that they are primarily the miniatures company is valid, but in a weird way. The rules and the concept are outdated and anachronistic, let's buy some cool models from them, paint them up and call it a day.

« Last Edit: April 10, 2014, 06:44:52 PM by DariusZero »
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Offline Warlord

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Re: Interesting article concerning GWs "we are a miniatures company" stance
« Reply #34 on: April 10, 2014, 02:19:44 PM »
I blame the absurd price more so than the rules. 

I forgot to mention that part too.

I used to buy a LOT. I stopped when they started releasing plastic boxes of units that used to be metal, priced at the ridiculous metal prices.
Examples such as:
Minotaurs - I once said if they released plastic Minotaurs, I would buy heaps - well they did, but priced them too high and I have never bought a box.
Greatswords - $70 AUD for 10 guys? seriously? I can get a close to new release console game for that much
Savage Orcs I really wanted plastics of these. For them to create a box of 10, roughly the same price as 16 regular, just pissed me off

All this, was at the same time they prevented overseas ordering.
The last miniature purchase I made, was a year ago in Italy paying Euros for some minis, because the AUD prices make me very angry. Before that, I honestly do not remember anymore.



Great post Darius. You are very right, and unfortunately GW will never read it.
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Offline oak_prince

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Re: Interesting article concerning GWs "we are a miniatures company" stance
« Reply #35 on: April 11, 2014, 02:31:55 PM »
Look what they've done to their website.  :icon_eek:

It's just a store now. No hobby articles, FAQs, painting guides, et cetera. 
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Offline Aldaris

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Re: Interesting article concerning GWs "we are a miniatures company" stance
« Reply #36 on: April 11, 2014, 02:40:03 PM »
I hope those return to the site, like, pronto.

Because ceasing to release FAQs for a year is bad enough, but removing the existing ones is basically teabagging their fans on top of it.

Offline StealthKnightSteg

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Re: Interesting article concerning GWs "we are a miniatures company" stance
« Reply #37 on: April 11, 2014, 02:45:59 PM »
I hope those return to the site, like, pronto.

Because ceasing to release FAQs for a year is bad enough, but removing the existing ones is basically teabagging their fans on top of it.

Luckaly I store every one local...
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Offline Sig

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Re: Interesting article concerning GWs "we are a miniatures company" stance
« Reply #38 on: April 11, 2014, 03:30:53 PM »
Thanks for the mental image of sweaty wargamer balls Aldaris.

Offline Aldaris

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Re: Interesting article concerning GWs "we are a miniatures company" stance
« Reply #39 on: April 11, 2014, 04:31:33 PM »
GW management? Wargamers?

lol.

Offline phillyt

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Re: Interesting article concerning GWs "we are a miniatures company" stance
« Reply #40 on: April 11, 2014, 05:33:18 PM »
I am fine with the new GW website, though losing those other components is too bad.  Really though, when was the last time you used GW as your primary source for anything hobby related outside of getting the price for a model?
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Offline Fandir Nightshade

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Re: Interesting article concerning GWs "we are a miniatures company" stance
« Reply #41 on: April 11, 2014, 05:35:54 PM »
Errrm....FAQ´s completely gone?

Or am I noobish?

Offline Aldaris

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Re: Interesting article concerning GWs "we are a miniatures company" stance
« Reply #42 on: April 11, 2014, 05:38:34 PM »
Nope.

Hobby articles from GW I don't give a fig about these days, there are indeed a million better sources out there.
But support for their games would be kind of... essential?

Offline Fandir Nightshade

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Re: Interesting article concerning GWs "we are a miniatures company" stance
« Reply #43 on: April 11, 2014, 05:45:38 PM »
Just a sales plattform now....

I can basically hear a Manager yelling...MEAN AND LEAN!

How much can it cost to have one geek do the FAQ´s of all the games and all the armies. I think I could do it part time and update the site once a week.

I guess they are just a miniatures company after all.  :ph34r:

Offline phillyt

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Re: Interesting article concerning GWs "we are a miniatures company" stance
« Reply #44 on: April 11, 2014, 05:47:55 PM »
But what happens every time they try to support their games with articles and such?  It gets eviscerated by the general public for being noobish, confused, stupid, or hollow.

Honestly though, what they could do is hire some of the more capable writers out there to produce articles about the game, similar to what Wizards does with Magic.  Working internally with their game designers and having them share their thoughts only goes so far.

The other obvious issue is people approach the game from different angles.  Most people want to think their book and options are top shelf and that they could drop a super competitive list on the table if they wanted to, despite few playing in that kind of cut throat environment.

To me the issue GW faces is two fold:

1.  Models are too expensive for most people to even briefly consider the game.
2.  Even after considering the game, painting models is a time consuming and difficult task that is a completely separate skill set to the actual act of playing the game.  It would be like coloring and illustrating your own magic cards.  The hobby side and the gaming side are almost completely disconnected from each other.  GW's problem is that the price of models makes fielding unpainted models seem like a waste of time, yet the trend towards more models on the table makes painting a more and more difficult prospect.
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Offline S.O.F

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Re: Interesting article concerning GWs "we are a miniatures company" stance
« Reply #45 on: April 11, 2014, 05:55:53 PM »
Errrm....FAQ´s completely gone?

Or am I noobish?

Can't find them either and Google, though it has links to them, just redirects me to the front page.
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Offline Aldaris

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Re: Interesting article concerning GWs "we are a miniatures company" stance
« Reply #46 on: April 11, 2014, 05:59:40 PM »
But what happens every time they try to support their games with articles and such?  It gets eviscerated by the general public for being noobish, confused, stupid, or hollow.

Huh. Fancy that!
I have no idea how that could have happened. After all, the FAQs were frequent, concise and consistent, and all the tactica and hobby stuff they were putting out was top notch.
 :?

The other obvious issue is people approach the game from different angles.  Most people want to think their book and options are top shelf and that they could drop a super competitive list on the table if they wanted to, despite few playing in that kind of cut throat environment.

Roughly balanced against each other and every option viable and, if possible, interesting would suffice. Cut throat environments would benefit, and casuals too. It's not an issue of different perspectives. If something is costed sensibly in relation to what it does, in relation to other, comparable things, it's something that can never be bad for ANYONE, no matter what approach one takes to the game.

Offline Fandir Nightshade

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Re: Interesting article concerning GWs "we are a miniatures company" stance
« Reply #47 on: April 11, 2014, 06:04:14 PM »
The FAQ´s were praised at the start when they managed to put them out in a decent timeframe after a new book came out.

There will always be whiners..but philly they have managed to even silence their ardent fanboys with their practices. Talking about how to NOT do customer relations.

High prices can be mitigated by the right ways to sell the products...Magic the Gathering are just PAPER CARDS...and look what people pay for those.


Offline phillyt

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Re: Interesting article concerning GWs "we are a miniatures company" stance
« Reply #48 on: April 11, 2014, 06:07:58 PM »
How much effort would you put into producing hobby materials when it is absolutely impossible to please the Warhammer audience?  I don't think it is wrong for them to abandon that portion of their hobby, since the independent sites do a great job (plus forums).  I miss it, and there was a time in the late 90's and early 2000's when what they provided was genuinely evocative.  That has leaked away slowly (fan reaction to the global campaigns being one potential reason for GW abandoning the concept of interactive fluff).
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Offline Aldaris

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Re: Interesting article concerning GWs "we are a miniatures company" stance
« Reply #49 on: April 11, 2014, 06:18:04 PM »
How much effort would you put into producing hobby materials when it is absolutely impossible to please the Warhammer audience?

A LOT? because it's embarrassing to give the impression to know nothing about ones own product and not care anyway?

I don't think it is wrong for them to abandon that portion of their hobby, since the independent sites do a great job (plus forums).  I miss it, and there was a time in the late 90's and early 2000's when what they provided was genuinely evocative.  That has leaked away slowly (fan reaction to the global campaigns being one potential reason for GW abandoning the concept of interactive fluff).

Uhhh... yes, fan reaction to some campaigns was bad. Why was that?
A company supplying a niche hobby, touting it as "THE HOBBY" and wanting to remain top dog in it had better be seen actually invested in that hobby and at least giving it impulses!