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Author Topic: Iwo Jima - My new idea for a Imperial guard theme... And a bit about orkzies  (Read 2336 times)

Offline Mathi Alfblut

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I have seen the exellent movie Flags of our fathers by Clint Eastwood, but in true swedish fashion it is far harder to find a copy of the second movie his Iwo Jima pair, "Letters from Iwo Jima".
So far I have heard it is just as good as "Flags of our fathers" so I hope to be able to someday.

But half a year ago, a swedish japanese born journalist and litterature research, Yukiko Duke published the Iwo Jima letters in her book "Breven från Iwo Jima" (Letters of Iwo Jima), by the Japanese general who planned and commanded the defence.

I was planning to make my IG army based around russians and anzac themes, but suddenly it dawned to me that would would be a more fitting theme to base the theme around "Iwo Jima" as a whole. Planet Strike anyone?

The heroism of both attackers and defenders are no longer questioned and I think Clint Eastwoods two movies are maybe the greatest effort in war movies to document the horror and heroism in war, and to portray both sides as human beings, and at the same time make one understand why both sides also tend to demonize their opponent.
Since Homer pilled together his epic "Iliad", few if any storyteller, writer or lately film director have come close to his remarkably neutral and humane treatment of the story of Troy, where heroes on both sides are portrayed in a very heroic and brutal way, with depictions of combat wounds inflicted with spears and bladed implement no one have yet been able to match.
(This shows that the composer was far from really blind, cause the injures described and their effect betrays a terrifying personal knowledge and insight in the very personal and ugly face of war in the age of cold steel (or bronze for that matter).
Nevertheless, the Iliad in the end is a story where the audience, who most likely where of mixed origin since Homer most likely lived in the greek settlements in asia minor, would find both heroes and villains on their side, and with the story ending before the fabled fall of troy, with Achilles and king Priam sharing a meal and Achilles helping Priam to smuggle Hectors body out of the camp, it ends with a message of reconcilitation and about the fact that we are all humans and very much alike when we remove the layers of pride and hate.

Having to compose for such a mixed audience probably helped the composer to find a balance and a realism, in the middle of all interfering gods and heroic duels, that few have been able or even dared to match.
This also made the Iliad controversial in the ancient Worlds. When the Persian wars had been fought, Trojans where portrayed as persians, and Homers version of the war was infact ignored in Athens. After all, the enemy where to be portrayed as evil as it was possible, and Homer did the opposite, especially since the most noble and humane of the heroes, Hektor, is infact a trojan!
Not good athenian imperialistic propaganda!

Well, back to Iwo Jima. I am now thinking of basing my army around a mixed formations inspired by the US Marines and Imperial Japanese army and Imperial Marines, the forces that came head to head on Iwo Jima.
I think it would be a fitting tribute.

Please, bring on suggestions! Lots of infantry, especially since the japs had few tanks compared to others!
Anyone have any good book with hard data about the units from the US Marines deployed. Or better, what stuff did they have. How many tanks and of what kind? Any tanks at all?


Oh, what shall happen to my Russians?

Donīt worry, Kelliez Herouz will be expanded upon and will be joined by a russianesqe band of Snake bite freebooters (They love brown and brown was the usual russian uniform colour). And The orkz are even better for portraying those crazy russian armoured assault units, Who went into battle riding on the rear of their tanks, hanging onto some freaking handle, each man kitted with either the dreaded PPSH 1941 sub-machinegun or light machineguns, and extra drum magazines and handgrenades all over!

Snakebitez wielding shootas and bigshootas anyone!  :icon_mrgreen:
Oh, and remember GW made it personal, not you!

Offline patsy02

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You're like Steve, only with words instead of pictures!
I agree with the inhumane treatment of animals.

Offline Finlay

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Didn't read it all, but I heard letters is a lot better than flags.
I don't care about the rules.

Pass the machete.

Offline Mathi Alfblut

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Screw you both! :icon_evil:

Itīs clear neither Patsy nor Finlay want to do anything but ruin my threads, and neither are interested in giving anyone any suggestions. Well, not me at least...

Get out of here!!!! NOW!
Oh, and remember GW made it personal, not you!

Offline Finlay

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I dont want to ruin your thread, I'm just saying letters is meant to be better than Flags.
I have seen flags and it was good, but a bit overly sentimental and not actiony enough!
I don't care about the rules.

Pass the machete.

Offline Mathi Alfblut

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Oh... sorry Finlay... I misinterpreted your short answer for another joke... In a very asperger way too... :blush:

See, I belived you referred to letters as in written letter or letters as alphabetical characters and to flags as flags that flutters and such... :icon_redface:

In my agitated mode my intellectual identification backup mode, that usually kicks in after a second of dumbfoundedness got a syntax error message and my Orky ADHD mode kicked in...
Oh, and remember GW made it personal, not you!

Offline t12161991

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The movie sucks.

The book is much better.

If you want details, just ask.

I have so much Iwo Jima material it isn't even funny... I think upwards of 15 books.

Oh, and my grandpa's in town. He was there.
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Offline Mathi Alfblut

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Dear good!

Good to have a source!

Well, I am just getting into that swedish book about The letters from Iwo Jima. Damn good. Shame that such good officers always are the onces sent to hold the impossible. It was such a waste of life and the Japanese where even discussing surrender but the Navy and the Army could not agree with each other due to stupid insular pride.

The Japanese really played in the hands of the allied. And the huge irony that some of their best officers and those that really warned against entering the war, allying with Germany and attacking the USA where the once who got some of the most important commands!

Oh, and remember GW made it personal, not you!

Offline Feanor Fire Heart

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I saw letters of Iwo Jima and I must say, great movie!  Really puts the japanese in perspective of the war and denounces the stereotype that they were all banzai crazy meat heads (though some were).  Again great movie. Never saw Flags.

russians eh?  well how about tau, or better yet just add another IG regiment, one with more tanks and plenty of conscripts and commissars (yeah stereotype but hey would still look cool)
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Offline Florian Geyer

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Random things:

Imperial Armour II has rules for turret emplacements, perhaps an idea for your "Japanese". I would also think Osprey has published something useful.

One of the Japanese "heck-no-the-emperor-would-never-surrender-it-is-all-lies, let-continue-fighting-for-a-decade-or-two" guys actually published his memoirs. They are fairly difficult to get hold of but someday I will. Should be an interesting read.

Since Homer pilled together his epic "Iliad", few if any storyteller, writer or lately film director have come close to his remarkably neutral and humane treatment of the story of Troy, where heroes on both sides are portrayed in a very heroic and brutal way, with depictions of combat wounds inflicted with spears and bladed implement no one have yet been able to match.

Have you read anything by Ernst Jünger? German storm troop lieutenant in WWI, very Prussian. You might find some of his books to your liking.
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Offline Finlay

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I like how most of your post is about the Iliad!
Hector is the bomb.
I don't care about the rules.

Pass the machete.

Offline GamesPoet

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Interesting to read for your view of Homer and the Illiad. :icon_cool:

Beyond that, I think I saw the film from the U.S perspective, but haven't seen the one yet from the Japanese perspective, and frankly not sure I fully understand how these can be used ot inspire 40K stuff, but if it works for you go for it. :::cheers:::
"Not all who wander are lost ... " Tolkien

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Offline Finlay

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Interesting to read for your view of Homer and the Illiad. :icon_cool:
pretty orthodox viewpoint really.
I don't care about the rules.

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Offline Mathi Alfblut

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Indeed, it is the more or less established viewpoint.
Oh, and remember GW made it personal, not you!

Offline GamesPoet

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Forgive me for being so undereducated. :icon_wink: :icon_lol:

Orthodox or not, appreciated the read. :icon_cool:
"Not all who wander are lost ... " Tolkien

"... my old suggestion is forget it, take two aspirins and go paint" steveb

"The beauty of curiosity and creativity is so much more useful than the passion of fear." me

"Until death it is all life." Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra

Offline Finlay

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Forgive me for being so undereducated. :icon_wink: :icon_lol:

Orthodox or not, appreciated the read. :icon_cool:
I guess that is the benefit of doing Ancient History, I think I did an essay in my second year about anger in the Iliad and how it ends with the reconciliation, before the fighting restarts.

But it is clever to link the Iliad to these films.
I don't care about the rules.

Pass the machete.

Offline Mathi Alfblut

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 :blush:
Oh, well, thatīs flattering Finlay. I came to think of it when I started to read the book, recently had dived deeply into aegean and Anatolian bronze age, and started to think of Eastwoods to movies.

Reconciliation. A are theme in warmovies...

But wait, there is another one I remember, an australian one I belive. Itīs takes place in New Guinea or some of the other Islands and involves a Japanese marksman and his mate that have gotten separated from their unit late in the war. They encounter an australian patrol and a firefight ensume. The marksman manages to bring down all of the aussies except for two, but his comrade is shot dead.
The movie then revolves around a long drawn out duel between the youngest of the aussies who is more or less on his first real mission and the marksman.

However, it ends with the japanese trying to evade and the australian pursuing, when the stop on an open field and the australian sees a little girl walking toward a stack of dug-up mines, totally unaware. He tries to hit the mines to explode them before itīs to late, while the Japanese having one round left looks dumbfounded at him through the scope, until he too see what is happening.
Seeing images of his own little daughter passing before him he swings his rifle around and hits them mines setting of an explosion that makes the girl turn around and run away.
As the japanese then attempts to take his life with his bayonet the australian soldier flings himself upon him and manage to prevent the suicide and a minute later another aussie patrol arrives.
But it starts with a meeting between war vets from Australia and Japan and ends there too, when the now old men meets again. The Japanese have put his past anger beside him, that he felt for being prevented from dying honourably.
I belive the movie was called "My honourable enemy" or "My enemy" or something.
The last lines are when the assuie asks the japanese how he thinks of him today and the japanese answers "As a friend".

Another movie about reconciliation and war. And a really tight one, especially for those who love sniper themed movies.
Oh, and remember GW made it personal, not you!

Offline Finlay

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you know what, I have seen a film about a japanese and american officer stranded on a Pacific island together.
It was amazing. had only those two characters, and barely any dialogue...

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0063056/usercomments

The original ending has the two characters just walking away from each other at the end, but the studio didn't like it, so spliced some footage of a building exploding, which the two were meant to be in and then it just ended. Me and my dad were so confused, until I read that the studio had interfered!
I don't care about the rules.

Pass the machete.