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Author Topic: Black Templars!  (Read 4470 times)

Offline MrDWhitey

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Re: Black Templars!
« Reply #25 on: December 09, 2011, 05:55:53 PM »
Hmm doesnt the army book refer to the LD check required in the main rulebook? Because that test doesn't exist and so the army book rule isn't needed anymore, trumphing core rulebooks or not.

Did that make sense?
My point: the rule doesnt exist anymore and its stupid to follow it.

Have you read the book and their FAQ? The book only mentions the TP test once, and the FAQ removes that. The FAQ then goes on to explain how you must test. Read them, it will help you immensely.
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Offline Shadowwolf

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Re: Black Templars!
« Reply #26 on: December 09, 2011, 07:06:55 PM »
I'd use it, as the designers of the book and the FAQ for it clearly indicates this should be the case.

Of course, you can do as you wish, it's just a matter of what you want out of the game and how morals should affect it. And your opinions on how the BT should work, of course.  :smile2:

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Offline GamesPoet

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Re: Black Templars!
« Reply #27 on: December 09, 2011, 07:56:13 PM »
So if I am against BT again tonight, whats the best policy for discussing the TP topic with my opponent?
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Offline MrDWhitey

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Re: Black Templars!
« Reply #28 on: December 09, 2011, 08:03:10 PM »
TP? There is no rule Target Priority now.

There is however a rule called "Kill them all" which requires Black Templar units (except for Vehicles, it specficially states "Infantry, Jump Infantry or Bike units") to take leadership tests at -1 in order to shoot units other than the closest one.

Fluff text for the rule:

Quote
Black Templars are so zealous in their persecution of the enemies of the Emperor that they will often try to kill the nearest enemy to them, even when shooting a more distant enemy might be more tactically sound
« Last Edit: December 09, 2011, 08:07:25 PM by MrDWhitey »
I thought he should act responsibly and just kill himself.

Offline Shadowwolf

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Re: Black Templars!
« Reply #29 on: December 09, 2011, 08:06:33 PM »
TP? There is no rule Target Priority now.

There is however a rule called "Kill them all" which requires Black Templar units (except for Vehicles, it specficially states "Infantry, Jump Infantry or Bike units") to take leadership tests at -1 in order to shoot units other than the closest one.
Sounds like the way to go, GP :-)

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Offline GamesPoet

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Re: Black Templars!
« Reply #30 on: December 09, 2011, 10:12:35 PM »
Yep, there was  alot of "TP" being discussed, and since I'm not as familiar with 40K as some of the experts here, I appreciate the clarification.

Thank you much! :icon_cool: :::cheers:::
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Offline Finlay

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Re: Black Templars!
« Reply #31 on: December 09, 2011, 10:41:28 PM »
so the guy who wrote the faq thought that BT, ovr all other armies, still need to do TP?
over zealous blood crazed armywanting to shoot the closest thing to them to eradicate everything? sounds reasonable.  But I wouldnt enforce it.
but arent ALL armies in 40k over zealous and blood crazed?

basically.

But whitey is right, I hadn't read the FAQ, and it doesn't refer to TP, but a separate rule.

Whether or not I think it is flapping daft for the game designers to have specifically kept it for BT, it still is the actual rule.
Although I would probably let someone not use it. But I will never play BT so doesn't matter.
I don't care about the rules.

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Offline phillyt

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Re: Black Templars!
« Reply #32 on: December 09, 2011, 11:04:19 PM »
over zealous blood crazed armywanting to shoot the closest thing to them to eradicate everything? sounds reasonable.  But I wouldnt enforce it.

It isn't a question of not enforcing it.  It is a specific rule for the BT.  It is characterful and fluffy like you said.  And in about 80 games I have failed the roll about... never.  I rarely shoot at anything other than the closest models, use a lot of vehicles, and focus on CC units not shooters.  Lacking devastator squads removes the problem to a great degree.

Finlay:  Have you REALLY read the Black Templar text?  They are the most zealous SM chapter that exists.  They have never stopped the Emperor's crusade in the 10,000 years since his installation into the golden throne.  HE never said to stop, so they assume everyone else is a bunch of duty shirkers.  They do not set up fiefdoms like the Ultramarines and Space Wolves and think that to do so is a direct violation of the purpose of the Marines.  Space marines are meant to protect all of humanity, not just one section at a time.  This is also why they ignore the 1000 marine limit.  The Space Wolves do too, but the Black Templar are the most numerous.  Only their EXTREME piety prevents them from being examined by the Inquisition.  The only time they were they destroyed the inquisitor and the the issue was swept under the rug.  There are at least 5000 templar and probably around 7000.  Many people continue to be suspicious since almost 1000 BT were seen at Armagedon, which seems... unusual.  They were known to be active in several other crusades at that moment.  But the High Lords were okay with it since a BT has never fallen to chaos and they go wherever they are asked without delay or complaint.

In other words, they are completely and totally awesome in everyway a Space Marine should be.  They aren't Twilight marines or super moody like DA.  They are born to kill and love every second of it yet are not complete nutters like Chaos marines or orks.
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Offline Finlay

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Re: Black Templars!
« Reply #33 on: December 09, 2011, 11:34:09 PM »
I know not literally every army should shoot the closest things, but you could make fluff arguments for it with certainly a lot more of the armies.
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Offline phillyt

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Re: Black Templars!
« Reply #34 on: December 09, 2011, 11:50:56 PM »
Who else?
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Offline Finlay

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Re: Black Templars!
« Reply #35 on: December 09, 2011, 11:54:32 PM »
orks, chaos, demons, blood angels, tyranids if not within range of synapse creature.
I don't care about the rules.

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Offline phillyt

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Re: Black Templars!
« Reply #36 on: December 10, 2011, 12:07:17 AM »
Tyranids do have specific rules for shooting.  Orks I can see, but they can't hit anything anyway so shooting isn't normally much of a concern.  Blood Angels aren't even close to the Black Templar level of feverish hysterics when it comes to the desire to eradicate anything not masturbating nightly to a picture of the Emperor.  Demons hardly shoot, but have their sinister intellect.

Chaos are even more skilled and experienced than normal marines.  They are also not so crazy that they do not understand the value of selective fire.  They are cruel and hateful, but you don't live centuries without that kind of knowledge.

Black Templar have that as a balancing issue.  They are the best CC marine chapter (or were, SW are about equal or slightly lower but it is close) and giving them the same level of pinpoint shooting wasn't fair.  Pity they didn't do the same with BA and SW now!  No limitations, only improvments over normal marines!
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Offline Finlay

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Re: Black Templars!
« Reply #37 on: December 10, 2011, 12:12:06 AM »
but why would they just shoot things close, and not have "rage"?

I understand it was a balance issue, but you could easily justifiable put in the same rule for any army that isn't based around disciplined shooting.
I don't care about the rules.

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Offline rufus sparkfire

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Re: Black Templars!
« Reply #38 on: December 10, 2011, 12:27:54 AM »
Aren't black templars the ones who really like chainswords? And also have servitors dragging random bits of masonry around.

It's too bad chainswords don't have rules anymore. Making them work the same as a little knife is lame!
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Offline phillyt

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Re: Black Templars!
« Reply #39 on: December 10, 2011, 12:52:09 AM »
but why would they just shoot things close, and not have "rage"?

I understand it was a balance issue, but you could easily justifiable put in the same rule for any army that isn't based around disciplined shooting.

I said a few posts ago in over 80 games I have rolled barely a handful of times and cannot ever remember failing to shoot at something I wanted too.  Their desire to eliminate the enemies of man is at such a level that they want to fire on and assault the nearest heretic.  That is their whole bag.
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Offline Darknight

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Re: Black Templars!
« Reply #40 on: December 11, 2011, 12:33:17 AM »
They are the most zealous SM chapter that exists.  They have never stopped the Emperor's crusade in the 10,000 years since his installation into the golden throne.  HE never said to stop, so they assume everyone else is a bunch of duty shirkers.  They do not set up fiefdoms like the Ultramarines and Space Wolves and think that to do so is a direct violation of the purpose of the Marines.  Space marines are meant to protect all of humanity, not just one section at a time.  This is also why they ignore the 1000 marine limit.  The Space Wolves do too, but the Black Templar are the most numerous.  Only their EXTREME piety prevents them from being examined by the Inquisition.  The only time they were they destroyed the inquisitor and the the issue was swept under the rug.  There are at least 5000 templar and probably around 7000.  Many people continue to be suspicious since almost 1000 BT were seen at Armagedon, which seems... unusual.  They were known to be active in several other crusades at that moment.  But the High Lords were okay with it since a BT has never fallen to chaos and they go wherever they are asked without delay or complaint.

In other words, they are completely and totally awesome in everyway a Space Marine should be.  They aren't Twilight marines or super moody like DA.  They are born to kill and love every second of it yet are not complete nutters like Chaos marines or orks.

PhillyT; you make me want to collect a BT army and make me almost regret selling the various bitz I had (and few painted models) on the electronic bay.
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Offline phillyt

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Re: Black Templars!
« Reply #41 on: December 11, 2011, 12:41:12 AM »
Good!  What could be cooler than space knights?
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Offline Darknight

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Re: Black Templars!
« Reply #42 on: December 11, 2011, 01:14:20 AM »
Power-armored xenocidal space nuns who aren't Arians :)
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Offline Sig

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Re: Black Templars!
« Reply #43 on: December 11, 2011, 02:49:01 AM »
Orks do have a variant of the rule anyway on the tankbusta squads, the glory hog rule.

BT also benefit muchly from the old terminator standard of being able to have two heavy weps in a 5 man squad. Fun times.

Offline phillyt

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Re: Black Templars!
« Reply #44 on: December 11, 2011, 03:22:19 AM »
YEah, I run paired assault cannons when I run regular terminators at all!
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Offline Dammanz

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Re: Black Templars!
« Reply #45 on: January 09, 2012, 04:10:40 PM »
I am really excited with the book!  It seems to be all the good bits of the space marine codex without the lame bits.

What parts do you think are lame, and whats parts cool?

I always felt the opposite, too much of a close-combat rush orientated army. I always loved the idea of Sternguard and tac-marines holding down steady lanes of fire, keeping the fools at distance with the awesome power of their boltguns and heavy cousins. I like the flavor of knights that the BTs have, but think it would be cool if the were more shooty.

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Offline phillyt

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Re: Black Templars!
« Reply #46 on: January 09, 2012, 05:28:51 PM »
Black Templar has always been the most CC oriented marine chapter though.  That is sort of their thing.  Blood Angels were always the super quick CC focused ones, and Space Wolves were meant to be strongly CC oriented with a decent mix of shooting.
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Offline Dammanz

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Re: Black Templars!
« Reply #47 on: January 10, 2012, 01:24:36 AM »
Yeah, the Knights Templar feel of about them really fits the CC style, I just like the shooting side of space marines more.

Sternguard I think are the coolest parts of the new marine Codexs. I hope that if they redo Dark Angles they give there "vanilla" (ie: not Deathwing or Ravenwing) neat shooting options.
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