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Author Topic: Empire newbie seeks tips :)  (Read 2681 times)

Offline MiniJunkie

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Empire newbie seeks tips :)
« on: April 09, 2012, 02:39:33 AM »
Hi everyone,

I'm not new to Warhammer Fantasy or the lore by any means, but for some reason Empire is the one army I've never really dug into much. I think in the past they were a little too "normal" for me and lacked that taste of fantasy I was looking for. Obviously the new book has gone a long way to rectifying that and I'm a little bitten by a bug to start up some Empire painting!

Right now my plan is to do an Averland force - I like the fluff and the colors...and that's as far as I've gotten. I have a general on griffon put together (the new one) and bought a Hurricanum and a battalion box.

For starters I take it the best choice for the State Troops is halberds? Any tips on things to add from there? I believe the box includes crossbow/gunners, a unit of Knights, and some greatswords...

Offline MiniJunkie

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Re: Empire newbie seeks tips :)
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2012, 03:12:48 AM »
aaaaand I managed to post my first message in the wrong board didn't I?   :icon_redface:

Offline ForlornHope

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Re: Empire newbie seeks tips :)
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2012, 04:40:54 AM »
aaaaand I managed to post my first message in the wrong board didn't I?   :icon_redface:

Ya...

Hi everyone,

I'm not new to Warhammer Fantasy or the lore by any means, but for some reason Empire is the one army I've never really dug into much. I think in the past they were a little too "normal" for me and lacked that taste of fantasy I was looking for. Obviously the new book has gone a long way to rectifying that and I'm a little bitten by a bug to start up some Empire painting!

Right now my plan is to do an Averland force - I like the fluff and the colors...and that's as far as I've gotten. I have a general on griffon put together (the new one) and bought a Hurricanum and a battalion box.

For starters I take it the best choice for the State Troops is halberds? Any tips on things to add from there? I believe the box includes crossbow/gunners, a unit of Knights, and some greatswords...

Good to see another fan of the black and yellow  :::cheers:::

Halberds or Spears are both good choices for parent regiments and have their pros and cons. They have been more balanced in this book then the last. It really comes down to taste IMO. I love lots of troops so I have hordes of both in my list.

My best advice would be to create a starting list and purchase your models from that so that you have a plan and don't waste money on things you end up not wanting to use. All of the models you have are perfectly viable and a good base for an army though most of those units will need to be made bigger.

Offline MiniJunkie

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Re: Empire newbie seeks tips :)
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2012, 05:14:11 AM »
Cool - thanks Forlorn that's what I kinda figured, I'll definitely beef up the unit sizes. I've been testing some yellows and am eager to get some paint on these guys. Assembled 10 halberdiers so far. I managed to give my standard bearer the bare feet body. *smacks head* - I swear I am such a screwup lol.

Offline ForlornHope

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Re: Empire newbie seeks tips :)
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2012, 06:41:32 AM »
Cool - thanks Forlorn that's what I kinda figured, I'll definitely beef up the unit sizes. I've been testing some yellows and am eager to get some paint on these guys. Assembled 10 halberdiers so far. I managed to give my standard bearer the bare feet body. *smacks head* - I swear I am such a screwup lol.

I always figured he sold his shoes to buy that snazzy breastplate.

Offline red bull

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Re: Empire newbie seeks tips :)
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2012, 08:01:56 AM »
Not a bad way of looking at it :)
No matter how good a general you are; if the dice are against you, you will not win.

My new stories http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=36076.0
http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=36981.0

Offline nuttunen

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Re: Empire newbie seeks tips :)
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2012, 10:25:54 AM »
Welcome, Averland über allens!
The dude just has sOme moot blood in him hence the bare feet.


Tip: spare handgunners/crossbows make good spearmen etc. (that battlion box is a good deal)
Check out my painting-log C&C is plenty appreciated!

Offline chaospuppet

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Re: Empire newbie seeks tips :)
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2012, 08:53:45 PM »
Cool - thanks Forlorn that's what I kinda figured, I'll definitely beef up the unit sizes. I've been testing some yellows and am eager to get some paint on these guys. Assembled 10 halberdiers so far. I managed to give my standard bearer the bare feet body. *smacks head* - I swear I am such a screwup lol.

I always give the bare feet to my musician (and the monkey face). The musician isn't going to be doing much fighting anyway so I figure the regiments just get the village idiots in to batter away on the drum while they march...

Offline TheElectorCount43

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Re: Empire newbie seeks tips :)
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2012, 08:59:53 PM »
Halberdiers if you want to assault, Spearmen if you want to defend.

Offline mottdon

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Re: Empire newbie seeks tips :)
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2012, 09:04:32 PM »
I always give the bare feet to my musician (and the monkey face). The musician isn't going to be doing much fighting anyway so I figure the regiments just get the village idiots in to batter away on the drum while they march...
[/quote]

MUSI-A-NZ AM NOT IDUTZ!!!

Offline Warwhore

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Re: Empire newbie seeks tips :)
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2012, 10:44:34 PM »
Halberdiers if you want to assault, Spearmen if you want to defend.

I wonder if the math supports this claim. Let's compare 40 halberdiers to 48 spearmen (both equal 240 points) both in horde formation.

Against T3 opponents:

Halberdiers -> 30 attacks -> 15 hits -> (2/3)*15 = 10 wounds
Spearmen -> 40 attacks -> 20 hits -> (1/2)*20 = 10 wounds

* if the opponent has no armor save and assuming the halberdiers didn't charge (for this comparison we always assume the spearmen do not charge) then spears are better because they will most likely have an extra rank. If, however, then opponent has an armor save (which most core troops do) and/or the halberdiers charged then halberdiers are better or at the very least equal.

Against T4 opponents:

Halberdiers -> (1/2)*15 = 7.5 ~ 8 wounds
Spearmen -> (1/3)*20 = 6.6 ~ 7 wounds

* Halberdiers are better
------------------------------
Really the only thing Spearmen have going for them is the extra rank. Let's compare the 40 halberdiers and 48 spearmen to, let's say, 24 ghouls (also 240 points). We'll assume the empire troops pass their fear check.

24 Ghouls (6x4) vs 40 Halberdiers (in horde):

Halberdiers -> 24 attacks -> 12 hits -> 6 wounds
Ghouls -> 18 attacks -> 3 will wound automatically from poison + 8 more -> Halberdiers make 2 AS - > 9 wounds

* Halberdiers have 3 complete ranks as do the ghouls. Assuming the halberdiers have full command they would lose by 2 and if they charged then they would lose by 1. In any case they wouldn't be steadfast.

24 Ghouls (6x4) vs 48 Spearmen (in horde):

Spearmen -> 32 attacks -> 16 hits -> (1/3)*16 = 5.3 ~ 5 wounds
Ghouls -> 9 wounds

* Spearmen have 4 complete ranks while the ghouls have 3. They spearmen didn't charge but they do have an extra rank and full command, so the spearmen lose by 2. The spearmen are also steadfast.
----------------------------
« Last Edit: April 10, 2012, 01:17:29 AM by Warwhore »
It's science. You wouldn't understand.

~The Big Diehl

Offline HERO

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Re: Empire newbie seeks tips :)
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2012, 11:26:52 PM »
Thanks for the numbers, I'm curious what it looks like after +1 to hit is applied (1 test) and one with Hatred applied :)

Offline Warwhore

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Re: Empire newbie seeks tips :)
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2012, 12:36:12 AM »
Thanks for the numbers, I'm curious what it looks like after +1 to hit is applied (1 test) and one with Hatred applied :)

All things being equal, I'm sure the halberdiers would come out on top. I haven't ran the numbers though, so I could be wrong.

Maybe spearmen could be better if you were expecting to lose the combat, and with their extra rank, the spearmen have a better chance of being steadfast. Then again, if your expecting to lose then you could simply reform the halberdiers into bus formation making them steadfast. All in all, I think halberdiers are the most flexible choice: they are better than spearmen when in horde and can reform into bus for steadfast.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2012, 01:22:13 AM by Warwhore »
It's science. You wouldn't understand.

~The Big Diehl

Offline Clymer

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Re: Empire newbie seeks tips :)
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2012, 12:52:36 AM »
Yep, but on the charge, spearmen are only getting 30 attacks. Spearmen, even at 1 point less are still worse than halberds.
Note: The above post was intended for entertainment purposes only and may contain views not necessarily held by its author. Any similarity to actual facts is purely coincidental.