Warhammer-Empire.com
Between the Battles & the Art ... => The Count's Tavern => Topic started by: Sir Badgois on May 29, 2006, 03:47:28 PM
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I apologise if this has already been mentioned but I have been trying to spread the word.
Chateau MOntreford has fallen. Overrun by beastmen, orcs, necromancers, skaven, and all manner of evil.
OOC that means our server host crashed and lost everythin. The stie simply doesn't exist anymore.
Please, sons of Sigmar, raise you glasses to the chateau and bid it a proper farewell
their is a new site being raised from scratch.
Bret.woarl.com
PS they call me Gaulord in Bretonnia
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Alas, it is sad to see our sometime ally and friend go into that good night.
Although, off the record, it's good to see those pansy, dress-wearing sissies get what they deserve... wait... is this thing still on?
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While I must confess to not being completely up to date on all things Bretonnian, why doesn't Chateau Montreford, in light of this incident, simply merge with the Round Table of Bretonnia?
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AFAIK, the old Chateau domain points to the Round Table nowadays.
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Really? Huh. So our chivalrous friends have some sense in them after all :-D It's nice to see a good Bretonnian web site around, even if the Bretonnian community in general seems a little...naive...?
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(Racticas weeps a tear for the fallen of Bretonnia)
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CM was a nice site.
They probably won't permanently join RToB, because that would drown out the old RToB, and the sites were quite different in character and nature etc.
I've already spoken on this on H&A and RToB, so no third farewell from a non-active member here :wink:
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AldebrandLudenhof: Care to elaborate on the differences between these two sites? Such things interests me. :-)
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I am helping to co-found the new Bretonnian site at bret.woarl, but that site is being postponed until we figure out how many members are going to stay at the Round Table (which is a fine site to be sure) and how many prefer the user-friendly interface of CM. At this point it looks like most will be sticking with the Round Table, but the other site may get up and going after a month or so if the need is still there.
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It is sad to see it go, but there is an important lesson here my friends: This is why it is always important to keep up-to-date backups. :|
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It's a horrible thing to happen.
I hope you can reclaim the ruins of your old chateau, cleanse them of every last remaining trace of evil and build a newer, better, and more magnificant castle!
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well one can only hope. RtoB is a nice site... the people are really friendly.
now i do have a question to ask.
Fafnir, what makes you think that the Bretonnian Community of RtoB is Naive?
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Fafnir, what makes you think that the Bretonnian Community of RtoB is Naive?
Just the impression I have gotten from reading the Round Table of Bretonnia and talking to Bretonnian players around where I live. Where I live Bretonnian players are often a bit younger than others, and on the Round Table there seems to be a larger degree of people interested in the soft, high-fantasy, we-are-the-shining-example-of-humanity-and-we-never-do-anything-wrong part of Bretonnia, versus the dark and in my opinion more mature fantasy of the Warhammer World in general. Just my impression, 's all.
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I'm sure that site will be greatly missed.
on the Round Table there seems to be a larger degree of people interested in the soft, high-fantasy, we-are-the-shining-example-of-humanity-and-we-never-do-anything-wrong part of Bretonnia, versus the dark and in my opinion more mature fantasy of the Warhammer World in general. Just my impression, 's all.
It is a mistake to equate 'dark' with 'mature.' It's often quite the reverse (after all, 'dark' fantasy seems to be popular with teenagers).
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Ack! It's a terrible thing when a great community is destroyed like that.
*observes moment of silence*
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It is a mistake to equate 'dark' with 'mature.' It's often quite the reverse (after all, 'dark' fantasy seems to be popular with teenagers).
That is not my experience, but to each his own.
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Possibly you have not met many vampire-obsessed teenage goths? You are lucky, if so.
There is just as much place for happy, shiny fantasy as for dark, nasty fantasy. One is not necessarily more mature than the other.
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Perhaps I should rephrase and use "Low" fantasy instead of "dark" fantasy. Yes, definately.
By "Low" fantasy I mean more "realistic" and less black and white, as far as "realism" goes in a fantasy world.
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ok fare enough. But that is because RtoB is based off the 5th edition fluff, which was alot better. 6th edition fluff just doesn't make any sense and truly and honestly sucks.
But on the Chateau we had a man Named Fredercik von Carstein and he constantly pointed out the wrong and darker side inherant in bretonnia. The problems in the feudal system and the mistreatment of a peasants.
I was about to have to brandish my sword though at that comment. I thought it was a jab at Bretonnians in general, but it is good to see that is cleared up.
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@ Procopius,
I know several people who consider themselves Goths (although, I believe several solely for fasion reasons) and none of them are vampire obsessed. It really is a false stereotype. In fact, probably the most likely people to be vampire obsessed would be roleplayers - a hobby that often overlaps with our own.
I think one of the main reasons that the Bretonnian community might be considered naive is that they are missing the biggest rule of chivalry... it only applies if you are weaker than the person trying to enforce it.
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Personally, I am very glad that the Bretonnian background has returned to its roots; their darker side from 4th edition and back. I don't mean literally, they have changed alot to the better since the really old days of Bretonnia, but they are no longer the shining paragons of humanity with which there is nothing wrong, like they were in the momentary GW lapse of the 5th edition Bretonnian army book. There are no shining paragons in Warhammer, just as there are none in real life. That works better in "epics" like The Lord of the Rings in my opinion, worlds not created or intended to be "lived in" but whose primary function is as a myth/saga/epic.
I like the Bretonnia of today, so much in fact that I have contemplated collecting them many times. I have found my needs for knights and people in chainmail to be adequately satisfied through the Empire though, with the possibility of "historical" Empire armies and mercenaries with "backward" styles etc etc, a fact both my wallet and my bank account has thanked me for many times. :-)
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FAre enough, but the fluff doesn't make sense in WFB, now the one protrayed in WFRP is the best. THeir are shining paragons of hope, Grail KNights! but only them really. Their are good people in bretonnia, but the society is too susceptible to corruption and greed. But people are good, in every nations. The bad people just outnumber them.
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But the difference in the empire is that you have an opportunity, whether you are good or bad- a peasant in the empire can become anything- it is difficult, but possible, as he can make money by business, something not possible in brettonia. And here, money is valued more than history, and once you make money...
In brettonia he will be a peasant. Forever. Or until he dies.
I think I've shown I agree with Fafnir, Brettonia fluff IMO should never have gone over to the happy peasants with happy knights realm. Maybe it is a fantasy relam, but I think no-one should ever paint humans as glorious and infallible, as they are not.
Oh, and mainly at Calvin, but applies to all, I always thought Chivalry was/is an excuse when you lose/lost.
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FAre enough, but the fluff doesn't make sense in WFB, now the one protrayed in WFRP is the best. THeir are shining paragons of hope, Grail KNights! but only them really. Their are good people in bretonnia, but the society is too susceptible to corruption and greed. But people are good, in every nations. The bad people just outnumber them.
Why doesn't the current fluff make sense?
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To sir Aldebrand:
Because if Peasants pay 90% taxes what is to stop a rich and ambitious Imperial from coming over to Bretonnia and throwing gold to the masses? Mercenaries and Foreign powers would have destroyed Bretonnia by this point.
To Mr. Guvnor
Chivalry is no such thing! It is remaining true to your ideals and beliefs, even to death. I really do not see how it is a chance cover up a defeat. It is what happens.
Their are people in bretonnia who are infallible(personality wise), grail knights. Their are not many, but in order to become the Lady of the Lake has to determine that your mind is pure and your heart true.
And my last point. Peasants are the lowly class, that is just how it is. their is no misunderstanding involved. The Nobility are simply more important. Now we don't mistreat the people(well some do, in fact alot do. But even in the empire people are oppressive), they just do their job toiling in the fields, then we put our souls on the line when the time for battle comes."
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BEcause if Peasants pay 90% taxes what is to stop a rich and ambitious Imperial from coming over to Bretonnia and throwing gold to the masses? Mercenaries and Foreign powers would have destroyed Bretonnia by this point.
This is a moot point, since 90% taxation isn't possible in the real world, along with flying horses and magic. That's why Warhammer is fantasy; Games Workshop has exaggerated certain aspects of real-world history (poverty, corruption, religious fanaticism etc) to convey the general feel of the area/character/concept and put it in line with the general "darkness" or "desperation" or "lowliness" of the Warhammer World. And quite brilliantly too I might add, with some exeptions. (*caugh* stormofchaos *caugh*).
What chivalry is or isn't (or was or wasn't) in the real world is equally moot, since Bretonnia is what Games Workshop says Bretonnia is, and Bretonnia is a land of powerful warlike feudal nobility (with cool armour and neat lances) ruling over a vast peasant population that it keeps in absolute, destitute poverty. That's what's cool about Bretonnia!
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I prefer the old WFRP Bretonnia. The peasants were just as oppressed, but the nobles were dissolute and ineffectual. Revolution was in the air!
None of this holy grail nonsense.
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I prefer the old WFRP Bretonnia. The peasants were just as oppressed, but the nobles were dissolute and ineffectual. Revolution was in the air!
I might have prefered that as well, if it weren't so clearly inspired by "l'ancient regime" France and as such so far ahead of its time.
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But then the french revolution created a regime that was just as bad, if not worse.
The english 'revolution' (civil war) created a state that actually worked, and then even though the royalty returned, they were very careful not to go too far. Thats what the brettonians should do.
I'd say the peasants are in a bad way in brettonia, and you don't exactly put your souls on the line- you wear lots of armour and they have none for a start.
Mercenaries and foreign powers could not have destroyed brettonia as the peasants are in so much fear of the knights that they won't grab the gold without a noble say-so.
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But then the french revolution created a regime that was just as bad, if not worse.
The english 'revolution' (civil war) created a state that actually worked, and then even though the royalty returned, they were very careful not to go too far. Thats what the brettonians should do.
The Bretonnian peasants should become Presybterians and Fifth Monarchists? And then invite the Stuarts back? That just doesn't sound very fluffy, and in any case I don't think that there are even any Stuarts in the Warhammer world. There certainly arn't any equivalents to William of Orange or the Latitudinarians, in fact the whole "Whig history" just falls apart.
So I guess I am with Rufus on this one. I started playing Bretonnia back when we still had crossbows, and Bretonnian knights were obese, drunk and lazy. I miss those days, but I am generally happy with 6th edition fluff.
I'd say the peasants are in a bad way in brettonia, and you don't exactly put your souls on the line- you wear lots of armour and they have none for a start.
The peasants are in great shape... they have a 4+ save in combat, buck-teeth, and plenty of snails on their sprues. My only regret is that I am required to take knights at all, if I could I would take one to represent a drunken whore-mongering churl, and have the rest of my army be all peasants.
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I could imagine that- ultra strict ladyofthelaker (must be a bad religion with a name like that) peasants chucking out the knights and thn inviting some to return as figureheads when they realise they aren't very good at ruling.
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I could imagine that- ultra strict ladyofthelaker (must be a bad religion with a name like that) peasants chucking out the knights and thn inviting some to return as figureheads when they realise they aren't very good at ruling.
Sure, only all their friends are dead and now they can't wear their Bourgeoise pants. "Big victory" for the knights who now get to live empty lives. And they have to surround themselves with the acoutrements of the peasantry they despised in order to avoid following their loved ones to the guillotine...
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You mean the 'loved ones' they had arranged political marriages with?
I wouldn't be surprised if they joined the crowd to save their own hide.
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Well, there is a merchant class in Bretonnia (they are detailed in WFRP2's guide to the Kingdom, Knights of the Grail (http://www.blackindustries.com/default.asp?template=productinfo&range=wfrp&product=60040283013)) - one which is steadily pushing for greater influence, not least in the city of L'Anguille.
If you want a more rounded view of the Kingdom, you'd more likely find it in KOTG (as Sigmar's Heirs (http://www.blackindustries.com/default.asp?template=productinfo&range=wfrp&product=60040283008) is handy for fans of the Empire!)
Gary