Topic: Need some help! 2500 Points

[NoRecoil]

As much as i read the army book and what other people do with there lists, for some reason i really struggle to put a list together.

I end up going in circles being unsure of what i have/should take.

So i would like some opinions and help, and if anyone is up for a challenge id like a suggested list or two that i can tweak or just practice with.

Currently i have the following models:

Core Units - Not including champ/muso/standards - have unit filler bases that can be used
40 x Hand gunners
50 x Spears
40 x Swords
5 x Huntsmen
+ other state troops models i have not put together

8 x Knights

Special
3 x Cannons
20 x Flagellates
6 x Outriders
5 x Pistoleers
10 x Unassembled Pistoleers/Outriders
20 x Greatswords

Rare
2 x Hellblasters
1 x Hellstorm

Heros/Lords
3 x Wizard
1 x Witch Hunter
2 x Engineers
2 x Warrior Priests (1 x GW, 1 X HW)
1 x General of the Empire box (unassembled)
(can make up any others needed)

Restrictions:
Thinking Nulnish - ie: plenty of Black Power Weapons and with the 40 Hand Gunners, 21 Outriders/Pistoleers, 2 Hellblasters and 3 Cannons it shouldn't be too hard
I like the effectiveness i have had with the HB+ME combo at my local club and would like to run 2
All Heros that can have a Pistol should have one in there equipment
Magic - Thinking Metal for its all round usefulness

Thanks in advance, and dont be shy to suggest combos or unit suggestions. Il be open to all replies 

[StealthKnightSteg]

This is what I can come up with for your models and theme, hope this reflects somehow how you see your list without depriving it from some combat elements

+++ Norecoil (2500pts) +++
+++ 2500pt Empire 8th Ed AB and 8th Ed BRB Roster (Standard)) +++

Selections:

Empire 8th Ed AB and 8th Ed BRB (Standard) Selections:

+ Lords + (469pts)

    * Arch Lector (194pts) (in Halberdiers)
        (Battle Prayers, Divine Power, Righteous Fury)
        Heavy Armour
        * Magic Items
            AB - Van Horstmann's Speculum, BRB - Dragonbane Gem, BRB - Enchanted Shield, BRB - Sword of Strife


    * Battle Wizard Lord (275pts)
        Lore of Metal, Wizard Level 4
        * Magic Items
            BRB - Dispel Scroll, BRB - Ironcurse Icon, BRB - Talisman of Preservation


+ Heroes + (283pts)

    * Captain of the Empire (133pts)
        (Hold the Line!)
        Battle Standard Bearer, Full Plate Armour, Pistol, Shield
        * Magic Items
            BRB - Dawnstone, BRB - Dragonhelm


    * Master Engineer (75pts)
        ('Stand Back, Sir!', Master of Ballistics)
        Repeater Pistol


    * Master Engineer (75pts)
        ('Stand Back, Sir!', Master of Ballistics)
        Repeater Pistol


+ Core + (892pts)

    * Halberdiers (474pts)  (your spears counts as..)
        (Regimental Unit)
        Champion, 50x Halberdiers, Musician, Standard Bearer
        * Handgunners
            8x Handgunners (Detachment)
        * Handgunners
            8x Handgunners (Detachment)


    * Swordsmen (418pts)
        (Regimental Unit)
        Champion, Musician, Standard Bearer, 40x Swordsmen
        * Handgunners
            6x Handgunners (Detachment)
        * Handgunners
            6x Handgunners (Detachment)


+ Special + (616pts)

    * Great Cannon (120pts)


    * Great Cannon (120pts)


    * Pistoliers (120pts)
        (Fast Cavalry, Swiftstride)
        Musician, 5x Pistoliers
        * Champion
            Brace of Pistols including a Repeater Pistol


    * Reiksguard Knights (256pts)
        (Stubborn, Swiftstride)
        Champion, Musician, 8x Reiksguard Knights
        * Standard Bearer
            BRB - Banner of Eternal Flame


+ Rare + (240pts)

    * Helblaster Volley Gun (120pts)


    * Helblaster Volley Gun (120pts)


Created with BattleScribe

[NoRecoil]

Thanks, looks good.

One question though, i know everyone want to use Halberdiers for the S4 attacks... But Spears would get extra rank + horde rank
making 30 S4 vs 40 S3 attacks. worth it?

Also would using more smaller units work? or is it a bit of "horde only" when playing at 2500?
Most of my games have been at 1500

[NoRecoil]

Also, is it worth taking Knightly Orders but upgraded as inner-circle knights w/ Great Weapons?
Its actually 16 points cheaper this way but you only have a 2+ save S6 strike last

[StealthKnightSteg]

Thanks, looks good.

One question though, i know everyone want to use Halberdiers for the S4 attacks... But Spears would get extra rank + horde rank
making 30 S4 vs 40 S3 attacks. worth it?

Also would using more smaller units work? or is it a bit of "horde only" when playing at 2500?
Most of my games have been at 1500

The higher S attacks with the hatred re-roll (first round) are better against most othe renemies doing more damage, I see (and others aswell) to many attacks stranded on S3 even with another row fighting..

You can look for a MSU list, but usually that is more combat oriented and not in line with your theme.

Also, is it worth taking Knightly Orders but upgraded as inner-circle knights w/ Great Weapons?
Its actually 16 points cheaper this way but you only have a 2+ save S6 strike last

The unit is not big enough for that, GW knights you really want more then 10 knights so you have a little buffer for the losses you wil get due to the lower AS and striking last..

[NoRecoil]

ok, thanks.

ill see how i go, how would you go about a MSU list using my model set then? (forgetting my original theme)

I am asking because ill be playing in a Championship in a few months that uses the Swedish Comp System and list must come in at 10, so the list must be a bit "fluffy and Fun", im happy to work out the Swedish points for it. Just looking at options

[NoRecoil]

Had a bit of a go at making one up with only one horde unit (spearmen). I'd like some input


+++ New Roster (2463pts) +++
+++ 2500pt Empire 8th Ed AB and 8th Ed BRB Roster (Standard)) +++

Selections:

Empire 8th Ed AB and 8th Ed BRB (Standard) Selections:

+ Lords + (369pts)

    * Arch Lector (159pts)
        (Battle Prayers (AB-36), Divine Power (AB-36), Righteous Fury (AB-36))
        Great Weapon (5pts), Heavy Armour (4pts)
        * Magic Items (50pts)
            BRB - Enchanted Shield (5pts), BRB - Obsidian Lodestone (45pts)


    * Battle Wizard Lord (210pts)
        Lore of Metal, Wizard Level 3
        * Magic Items (45pts)
            BRB - Talisman of Preservation (45pts)


+ Heroes + (273pts)

    * Captain of the Empire (143pts)
        (Hold the Line! (AB-32))
        Battle Standard Bearer (25pts), Full Plate Armour (6pts), Pistol (5pts), Shield (2pts)
        * Magic Items (45pts)
            BRB - Dawnstone (25pts), BRB - Sword of Might (20pts)


    * Master Engineer (65pts)
        ('Stand Back, Sir!' (AB-35), Master of Ballistics (AB-35))


    * Master Engineer (65pts)
        ('Stand Back, Sir!' (AB-35), Master of Ballistics (AB-35))


+ Core + (820pts)

    * Handgunners (120pts)
        (Regimental Unit (AB-30))
        10x Handgunners (90pts), Musician (10pts)
        * Champion (20pts)
            Repeater Handgun (10pts)


    * Handgunners (120pts)
        (Regimental Unit (AB-30))
        10x Handgunners (90pts), Musician (10pts)
        * Champion (20pts)
            Repeater Handgun (10pts)


    * Handgunners (120pts)
        (Regimental Unit (AB-30))
        10x Handgunners (90pts), Musician (10pts)
        * Champion (20pts)
            Repeater Handgun (10pts)


    * Knightly Orders (206pts)
        (Swiftstride (BRB-76))
        Champion (10pts), 8x Knightly Orders (176pts), Lance and Shield, Musician (10pts), Standard Bearer (10pts)


    * Spearmen (254pts)
        (Regimental Unit (AB-30))
        Champion (10pts), Musician (10pts)
        * 39x Spearmen (234pts)
            39x Shield (39pts)


+ Special + (761pts)

    * Great Cannon (120pts)


    * Greatswords (365pts)
        (Regimental Unit (AB-30), Stubborn (BRB-76))
        Champion (10pts), 19x Greatswords (209pts), Musician (10pts), Standard Bearer (10pts)
        * Swordsmen (63pts)
            9x Swordsmen (63pts) (Detachment (AB-30))
        * Swordsmen (63pts)
            9x Swordsmen (63pts) (Detachment (AB-30))


    * Pistoliers (138pts)
        (Fast Cavalry (BRB-68), Swiftstride (BRB-76))
        Musician (10pts), 6x Pistoliers (108pts)
        * Champion (20pts)
            Brace of Pistols including a Repeater Pistol (10pts)


    * Pistoliers (138pts)
        (Fast Cavalry (BRB-68), Swiftstride (BRB-76))
        Musician (10pts), 6x Pistoliers (108pts)
        * Champion (20pts)
            Brace of Pistols including a Repeater Pistol (10pts)


+ Rare + (240pts)

    * Helblaster Volley Gun (120pts)


    * Helblaster Volley Gun (120pts)


Thoughts?

Still have 40 points left, either drop one Hand gunner group for second cannon or Magic banner on the GS

[NoRecoil]

List updated

[StealthKnightSteg]

I'm not sure on that list... to be a bit more MSU you really want more speed in your list and that means more Knights and/or Demi's and you don't have those models yet.

[NoRecoil]

So MSU wont happen then, ive been doing what i can to avoid the main stay units that every one uses in there lists, hence i dont have any token "must use"models.
I ran a 1500 pont list that went ok against most my opponents at a local club a while back, dont really mind if i dont win. It's more for the fun

What do you suggest then?

[StealthKnightSteg]

same list I suggested earlier though use your spears as a bus then instead of "counts as Halberdiers"  I think you have then the best performing army within your theme.. maybe switch around a bit there on characters and their load out?

[NoRecoil]

Cant really have "counts as halberds" in a tournament.

Things i have picked up on when playing with hordes....
1. they are difficult to move into position around terrain
2. you almost never get your full attacks at 10 wide, most of the time you only get 6 in base to base

I thought having more smaller units - 5x5 and 6x6 - would eliminate this problem. With enough fire support from handgunner units/hellblasters/cannons you "could" whittle down hordes to units you can take them on with smaller units.

The GS unit is a good example, 20-25 GS w/ 2x 9-12 detach of swords. Makes the swords stubborn and more survivable.

A unit of 36 spears w/ shields in a 6x6 set up defensively with handguns as detachments can hold its own - drop a BSB w/Crown of command in there and they can hold there own.


Every second list on here seems the same, regardless of "theme" - 50 horde Halberd Units/demis/Rike Knights/Stanks/War alter/Lunamark...... yes this in the winning combo in the book, but im hoping to find something different that works well enough to have fun - Dosent have to win.
Just have some surprising combos that puts your opponent on the back foot, kill enough for a draw its not about winning
   

[StealthKnightSteg]

I have seen units smaller in the past, usually Flagelants or Great swords in 7 wide with 28 total in models for maximum rank bonus.. the last can even use detachments. But you are missing some models for those units (20 and 20) and those numbers are to small for infantry blocks in my opinion if they aren't detachments.

Think about it some more and let us know what you will decide, and I'm interested in how it will go as alot of people don't use much BS shooting these days.. (and hope you won't see a Stormbanner by Skaven)

[NoRecoil]

Any one else wanting to have a go?

Fire power to whittle them down with fire power, use Swords/Greatswords/Knights with Greatswords to finish units off? WP's for buffs?

Ideas?