home

Author Topic: Parade of pikes  (Read 24053 times)

Offline ZeroTwentythree

  • Members
  • Posts: 7770
  • i'm a mercenary doom bringer
Parade of pikes
« on: August 12, 2008, 12:39:09 PM »
Between all the great conversions and discussion on pikemen, and the availablility of pikemen in the Crisis In Marienburg army list for Marienburg, I've finally been motivated to get back to mine. I thought I'd share some comparison photos.

Apologies in advance for the black basecoat. When I eventually finish painting some of these, I'll post a revised photo.

The first two photos show a group of 9. The two outside files are Foundry landsknechts, the center file is made of three converted GW plastic figures using the old multi-piece 5th ed state troops, inspired by some of the other conversion posted in the B&P. For the pike, I've used 18 gauge (US) uncoated florist wire on most of them. This is approximately close to the size of the halberd shaft. The two first rank Foundry figures were assembled many years ago using a slightly thicker 20 gauge wire, which is closer to the plastic Empire spearmen spears from 6th ed.







The figures are very similar in appearance (all sculpted by the Perry brothers, so they should be.) The GW figures are just slightly bulkier, with not quite as crisp detail. Painted up and mixed into the same unit, I don't think you'd notice. I feel they'd mix well.

The next photo is of two of Mirliton's fantasy humans, which come from the old Grenadier Fantasy Warriors range sculpted by Mark Copplestone. Next to them is a row of Old Glory Flemish Pikemen from their Wars of the Roses range. They're similarly sized, though the Mirlirons look a bit skinnier. The Old Glory are not quite as well sculpted, but not bad, especially considering they're the cheapest of all the figures. To me, they look more like Hundred Years War era Low Countries/Flemish pike, rather than Wars of the Roses era.




The pikes on the Mirliton figures are once again 18 gauge wire. They were simple to glue into place with epoxy, since they balance perfectly in the figures hands even without adhesive. The Old Glory have smaller hands than all the other figures (probably more like real-life scale), so I used a smaller 20 gauge wire. As with most OG figures, the hands had to be drilled out, but the extra work pays off in that they will stay attached rather well.

The OG figures contain lead, but the Mirlitons seemed to be mostly lead. These are actually from the original Grenadier line, so they're quite old. I think they must be mostly lead, as I noticed the marks they left on the paper on which I was working. They actually made a decent (if frightening) writing instrument! Mmmm... tasty tasty lead. (Yes, I wrote that on paper with the figures.)





The last photo shows all 4 figure lines mentioned above, plus a Front Rank armoured pikemen from their Wars of the Roses Range. The figures are crisp, well sculpted and clean-up and  paint-up pretty easily. They look to be th largest of the figures, but still not abnormally so. I'm not sure they'd mix in the same unit with the Mirlitons, but I think they'd look OK in the same army/game.





Other figures I'd like to add to the review are the Old Glory landsknect pikemen, Old Glory Swiss pikemen, Foundy Medieval pikemen, and Foundry Swiss pikemen. I'm not currently interested in buying entire packs of figures just to review them, but if anyone has any single figures they'd like to donate to the cause, I'd be willing to accept. Also, I'm open to any other suggestions for manufacturers of 15th and early 16th century European pikemen figures.


Offline Arcano

  • Members
  • Posts: 166
  • The one who Is, Was and always will be - Arcano
Re: Parade of pikes
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2008, 12:59:06 PM »
Looking Great, Especially the second one in the "Old Glory" Line, i like his helm. and the Front rank one, he looks Proud, why have you made the bases of wood though?
And i basically only know about the GW minis, as im pretty new to wargaming and the likes
Arcano - Everchosen of Sigmar

Offline patsy02

  • Members
  • Posts: 5724
  • Moderator in charge of Gender Equality (Honorary)
Re: Parade of pikes
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2008, 01:24:18 PM »
Those are some expensive pencils you got there. :::cheers:::
I agree with the inhumane treatment of animals.

Offline ZeroTwentythree

  • Members
  • Posts: 7770
  • i'm a mercenary doom bringer
Re: Parade of pikes
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2008, 04:24:26 PM »
Looking Great, Especially the second one in the "Old Glory" Line, i like his helm. and the Front rank one, he looks Proud, why have you made the bases of wood though?
And i basically only know about the GW minis, as im pretty new to wargaming and the likes


Well, most historicals (and older fantasy figures, including some of the ancient GW ones) have molded on bases instead of slots anyway. And I magnetize my bases. It's easier to glue a sheet of wood to magnet, then cut the bases, rather than gluing a bunch of GW bases to magnet then trim around each one. Gale Force 9 and others sell pre-made magnetic bases, but my way is a fraction of the cost (I can probably do a whole army for the cost of one unit with GF9 bases.)


Those are some expensive pencils you got there. :::cheers:::

I should do a "conversion"... a wooden dowel with an old lead figure glued to the end of it.  :-D


Offline Guildenstern

  • Members
  • Posts: 614
Re: Parade of pikes
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2008, 06:46:46 PM »
Do you really think that the detail level on foundry minis is worse?
I like the comparision pic.
This might be posted on http://www.warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=6724.0 too
Guildenstern
My Blog

Offline ZeroTwentythree

  • Members
  • Posts: 7770
  • i'm a mercenary doom bringer
Re: Parade of pikes
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2008, 09:01:31 PM »
Do you really think that the detail level on foundry minis is worse?
I like the comparision pic.
This might be posted on http://www.warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=6724.0 too

Yeah, I was thinking about adding it to the comparison thread. You guys think it's easy enough to see the figures as they are or should I wait til I get some painted?

I meant that the GW figures aren't as crisp as the Foundry figures. Presumably because they're plastic vs. metal.

The Foundry & Front Rank are both the best in terms of sculpting and casting of the metal figures. If anything, I'd probably give Foundry a slight edge over FR based on marginally better casting quality. This may be different on the other side of the pond (not sure if the FR figures in the US are cast here or in the UK.)

Foundry is also the most expensive, at about $3, Mirliton & Front Rank are about $2, Old Glory are about $1. The old GW are OOP, but I've picked up my last few sets at about $1 per figure. (All prices +/- and in US$)


Offline rufus sparkfire

  • The Old Ones
  • Members
  • Posts: 33360
Re: Parade of pikes
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2008, 10:39:19 PM »
Very interesting. I'd like to buy the Foundry pikemen, but they annoy me too much with their price rises and their crazy postage charges.
Hey, I could still beat up a woman!
If I wanted to.

Offline Zak

  • Members
  • Posts: 7450
  • Mad Viking
    • Mad Viking
Re: Parade of pikes
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2008, 11:31:43 PM »
Its not much of a parade of pikes more of a small gathering......................BRING ON THE PIKES..... :biggriin:  ZAk
Yes I'm dyslexic so what

Offline Ad A Dglgmut

  • Members
  • Posts: 769
Re: Parade of pikes
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2008, 11:59:24 PM »
Quote
Yeah, I was thinking about adding it to the comparison thread. You guys think it's easy enough to see the figures as they are or should I wait til I get some painted?

You might as well wait, if you haven't posted the pictures yet.  Seeing them painted will be better for the comparison probably, than the figures primered in black.

O, and I can't wait to see these figures when they are painted, as Im a fan of your previous work. 

And those Foundry ones are definetly up there with the 6th edition GW empire figures.  I'm going to have to check them out and see about possibly getting some, as they look quite nice.  Do you know if they come with other weapons, other than the pikes (ie, crossbows, handguns, swords and shields, etc...)?
« Last Edit: August 14, 2008, 12:05:24 AM by Volt »
Usually I have a female mage holding my Rod of Power   :-D

Offline ZeroTwentythree

  • Members
  • Posts: 7770
  • i'm a mercenary doom bringer
Re: Parade of pikes
« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2008, 03:46:54 PM »
Its not much of a parade of pikes more of a small gathering......................BRING ON THE PIKES..... :biggriin:  ZAk


By the time I'm finished with the figures I've already got, I will have 4 units of 30. 1 of the Front Rank, 2 of the Old Glory, and 1 of the Foundry.

But that's a ways off... I'm just about done with the Front Rank unit, the Foundry are primed and a few figures done. That's about it.  :|


And those Foundry ones are definetly up there with the 6th edition GW empire figures.  I'm going to have to check them out and see about possibly getting some, as they look quite nice.  Do you know if they come with other weapons, other than the pikes (ie, crossbows, handguns, swords and shields, etc...)?

They have open hands and you have to supply the pikes or whatever. The old packs used to come with halberds, but now you have to buy those separate.

They also make landsknecht handgunners, command figures, greatswords and artillery & crew. I've posted the pic below on the comparisons thread before:




A comment in thread also reminded me, Crusader also makes pikemen as part of their Wars of the Roses line. They're a bit skinny, but well sculpted. Probably closest to the Mirliton, but all the poses are standing with pike-upright (posed like the Front Rank guy in the first set of photos.)

http://www.crusaderminiatures.com/prod.php?prod=196&cat=5&sub=16&page=1
http://www.crusaderminiatures.com/prod.php?prod=197&cat=5&sub=16&page=1
http://www.crusaderminiatures.com/prod.php?prod=198&cat=5&sub=16&page=1


Offline musketpacker

  • Members
  • Posts: 10
Re: Parade of pikes
« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2008, 04:50:14 PM »
Thanks for the comparison pictures 023.  It is good to see that the Old Glory figures are roughly comparable to GW figures, considering how cheap they are.  Looking forward to an OG landsknecht comparison.
aka lasgunpacker

Offline Kriegspiel

  • Members
  • Posts: 149
Re: Parade of pikes
« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2008, 05:31:25 PM »
Just to chip in regarding the Foundry figs -

Lovely Perry sculpts but as has already been mentioned here prices are high ( £10 UK for 6-8 figs depending on the pack ) and postage and packing is the same price .

If you wanted to use them as halberdiers ( as I planned to ) dont buy the Foundry halberds - they are too small IMO - more suited to smaller 25mm ( still looking around for a company that makes big halberds ) .

Oh and the Greatswords pack only has 8 figs but only 2 different sculpts ( shame they didnt sculpt 1-2 other greatsword figs ) .

But as I said I like the range - my wallet might not but I do !  :smile2:

Hope I havent hijacked this thread - like others here I am a big fan of ZeroTwentythree's previous work and know that when painted up these figs will look awesome .

Offline Von Breden

  • Members
  • Posts: 1104
  • Remembering the Eccentric
Re: Parade of pikes
« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2008, 08:01:54 PM »
Lovely Perry sculpts but as has already been mentioned here prices are high ( £10 UK for 6-8 figs depending on the pack ) and postage and packing is the same price .
That's €15. Nowadays we pay €17.5 for five GW metal models...
Quote from: Siberius
I never noticed your height on account of your fabulous manly imperial beard.

He who has such amazing facial hair will never be short in the eyes of his comrades!

Offline rufus sparkfire

  • The Old Ones
  • Members
  • Posts: 33360
Re: Parade of pikes
« Reply #13 on: August 14, 2008, 10:50:06 PM »
Lovely Perry sculpts but as has already been mentioned here prices are high ( £10 UK for 6-8 figs depending on the pack ) and postage and packing is the same price .
That's €15. Nowadays we pay €17.5 for five GW metal models...

Sure, but historical miniatures are usually much cheaper than that. Foundry are the GW of historical miniatures (except that they never release any significant new ranges - all their best stuff is years old). The excessive postage alone annoys me enough that I don't bother with them.
Hey, I could still beat up a woman!
If I wanted to.

Offline ZeroTwentythree

  • Members
  • Posts: 7770
  • i'm a mercenary doom bringer
Re: Parade of pikes
« Reply #14 on: August 15, 2008, 01:43:43 PM »
That's why I tried to give some comparisons, including GW plastics. My prices didn't include postage.

In the US, at least, there's distributors/retailers that might have cheaper postage options.

But I do confess, I would love to see Perry Miniatures or Front Rank do a range of landsknechts, as both are equal in quality to Foundry, but more affordable.

Also, while Old Glory don't quite stack up, I do think that their Landsknechts are one of their better ranges.

@ Musketpacker: I don't currently have any of the OG pike, but did previously post a handgunner comparison:



Below is the largest figure (old 4th ed. GW Empire) directly next to an OG handgunner.




Also, some painted OG greatswords:




Offline Zak

  • Members
  • Posts: 7450
  • Mad Viking
    • Mad Viking
Re: Parade of pikes
« Reply #15 on: August 15, 2008, 01:48:33 PM »
MAN i do love the Puffy sleeves, it seems that GW is getting away from them.  :eusa_wall:

  :unsure:Zak
Yes I'm dyslexic so what

Offline Kriegspiel

  • Members
  • Posts: 149
Re: Parade of pikes
« Reply #16 on: August 15, 2008, 05:17:42 PM »
I agree - I got into the Empire because they were a fantasy " landsknecht/ Holy Roman Empire " army - one of my favourite real world historical armies  - which to me is big beards and big ( BIG ! ) puffy sleeves !  :biggriin:

Its not like its difficult to model this style in plastic - look at the previous edition platics .

Guess GW thought we would fall in love with their pyjama clad skull boys .

Offline rufus sparkfire

  • The Old Ones
  • Members
  • Posts: 33360
Re: Parade of pikes
« Reply #17 on: August 16, 2008, 10:03:47 AM »
But I do confess, I would love to see Perry Miniatures or Front Rank do a range of landsknechts, as both are equal in quality to Foundry, but more affordable.

Oh god yes!  :icon_eek:


Quote
Also, while Old Glory don't quite stack up, I do think that their Landsknechts are one of their better ranges.

I know Old Glory are very cheap in the US, but they cost a great deal more in the UK. And while the greatswordsmen you posted look wonderful, I think that is mostly due to your painting. I don't think I could make them look much good.
Hey, I could still beat up a woman!
If I wanted to.

Offline WallyTWest

  • Members
  • Posts: 1031
  • 'Lux Mundi'
Re: Parade of pikes
« Reply #18 on: August 16, 2008, 06:08:49 PM »
Wow....


Guess I am buying Old Glory from now on. Mind posting what products you ordered so I can order them this afternoon? You have shown me they are in no way inferior or the lesser of the GW miniatures.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2008, 06:13:51 PM by WallyTWest »
It’s all about Renaissance Punk.

Offline ZeroTwentythree

  • Members
  • Posts: 7770
  • i'm a mercenary doom bringer
Re: Parade of pikes
« Reply #19 on: August 18, 2008, 01:46:52 PM »
Guess I am buying Old Glory from now on. Mind posting what products you ordered so I can order them this afternoon? You have shown me they are in no way inferior or the lesser of the GW miniatures.


Whoa there... I never said they were in no way inferior.  :wink: In fact, I think I admitted they don't quite stack up to the Foundry figures. If you buy them expecting GW quality, you will be a little disappointed. The sculpting isn't quite as clean, especially some of the faces, the features will be smaller and proportioned a little more like real humans (hands, weapons, etc. won't be oversized like GW & other fantasy figures,) and there will be a few prep issues, like making or buying pikes/spears (as it is with most of the other manufacturers) and in the case of OG, you have to drill the hands out. They're a soft, lead-based metal, which is actually easy to drill through, but make sure to clean up all the little bits of lead containing metal. (And don't eat the OG miniatures, tasty though they may seem.)

Overall, it's a quality vs. price issue, and whether or not you prefer having "official" GW figures.

There are some ranges that I wouldn't recommend, but like I said, I think the Landsknechts are one of their better ranges.

http://www.oldgloryminiatures.com/categories.asp?cat=184


The other pikemen (not landsknecht) I posted in my original post are the Flemish Pikemen from the Wars of the Roses range:

http://www.oldgloryminiatures.com/proddetail.asp?prod=WOR%2D18


Another word of warning: their cavalry figures are going to look small compared to most other manufacturers, but especially compared to GW. Check out the photos I posted in the miniatures comparison sticky-thread in this forum. I do use some OG infantry, but my own preference is to stay away from their cavalry.

You might consider either picking up a single pack or somehow getting your hands on a couple figures to check them out first.

I don't want to sound like I am discouraging your from buying their figures. I just don't want any mistaking my comparison of quality between the various manufacturers. And with that said, I do personally buy/paint/use some Old Glory figures. :-D

Also, if you're in the US and plan on buying a bunch of them, they have some sort of "membership" thing that costs money, but you get a big discount for a year that makes back the price of membership as soon as you buy something like 5-6 bags of figures.


Offline WallyTWest

  • Members
  • Posts: 1031
  • 'Lux Mundi'
Re: Parade of pikes
« Reply #20 on: August 18, 2008, 03:51:52 PM »
You did a fantastic job with them, and i would have never known that those sculpts where hiding in the OG range unless you posted a photo of them. I dont mean to sound like a fanatic, but those pictures have sold me on the idea of OG. Fantastic work.

After working with the new state troops for a week (fustrating experience) the landsknecht units and spearmen look refreshing. Its more of a thankyou for reminding me of the alternative ranges out there. (and I hardly think the local shop will care.)

The fact that they are sold in units of 30 is a big plus too.
http://www.oldgloryminiatures.com/proddetail.asp?prod=PIS%2D09
It’s all about Renaissance Punk.

Offline Bunkka-pop

  • Members
  • Posts: 247
Re: Parade of pikes
« Reply #21 on: August 18, 2008, 07:36:41 PM »
I see that I'm not only one who is frustrated because GW changed the size of empire state troop from 20 to 10.
"Argh!  Heretic scum!  I hate you with a fiery passion that only Sigmar himself could understand!  To prove it, I shall smite the bejesus out of this guy over here!"

Offline Ad A Dglgmut

  • Members
  • Posts: 769
Re: Parade of pikes
« Reply #22 on: August 19, 2008, 12:57:13 AM »
I see that I'm not only one who is frustrated because GW changed the size of empire state troop from 20 to 10.

Unfortunately, that is just one of the minor negative changes GW made to the State Troopers. 
Usually I have a female mage holding my Rod of Power   :-D

Offline Pistol Pete

  • Members
  • Posts: 2098
  • Pistolicious!
Re: Parade of pikes
« Reply #23 on: August 19, 2008, 01:35:02 AM »
I just noticed the Cossack pikemen on the old glory website.  Kislevite pikemen, anyone?   :icon_biggrin:
Desperately seeking Chaos Warrior heads & Skull banner tops from new empire missle troops sprue.  Will trade for bitz, barter, or $$$.  PM or email me to discuss details.

Offline WallyTWest

  • Members
  • Posts: 1031
  • 'Lux Mundi'
Re: Parade of pikes
« Reply #24 on: August 19, 2008, 12:27:55 PM »
I keep running the historicals thing through my head, I really can think of no reason to stick with actual GW spearmen. I think their big problem with state troops is all the effort they went through to remove themselves from historicals, when the reason people liked them is because they where such nice sculpts with a basis in historicals.

Plus the historicals have this weedy John Blanche human thing going for them... there is a definate posability to make a nice unit that would look very Warhammer Fantasy Battles.
It’s all about Renaissance Punk.