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Author Topic: What's the problem with the Armybook?  (Read 10862 times)

Offline theorox

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What's the problem with the Armybook?
« on: November 26, 2012, 09:54:08 AM »
I hear a LOT of angryness and dissappointment on the topic of the current Empire armybook. The only real problem I can see with it is that the cost of infantry is so high that you have to rely on somewhat gimmicky supportunits to make them worthwile, which doesn't  leave enough points to do much of anything else with.

At least this book doesn't seem to have the same über-broken build with tons of (overpowered) flagellants+Waraltar+Lightspam+Steamtanks that the last book did, and there's still plenty of options that are good or even "too good" in the current armybook.

So what's all the fuss about?

Theo



Offline Windelov

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Re: What's the problem with the Armybook?
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2012, 10:19:39 AM »
I hear a LOT of angryness and dissappointment on the topic of the current Empire armybook. The only real problem I can see with it is that the cost of infantry is so high that you have to rely on somewhat gimmicky supportunits to make them worthwile, which doesn't  leave enough points to do much of anything else with.

At least this book doesn't seem to have the same über-broken build with tons of (overpowered) flagellants+Waraltar+Lightspam+Steamtanks that the last book did, and there's still plenty of options that are good or even "too good" in the current armybook.

So what's all the fuss about?

Theo

I think the only frustration about the new army book occoured before and doing the first coupple of months following release. I think most are quite satisfied with it.   :::cheers:::

Online Fidelis von Sigmaringen

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Re: What's the problem with the Armybook?
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2012, 10:32:18 AM »
Depends. It is not weaker than the last edition, but it is purposely unbalanced to make us buy the new gimmicks.
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Offline warhammerlord_soth

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Re: What's the problem with the Armybook?
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2012, 10:33:56 AM »
Depends. It is not weaker than the last edition, but it is purposely unbalanced to make us buy the new gimmicks.


Warhammer itself was created to make us buy the models. I for one have accepted that fact.


If you do so as well, you may achieve nirvana in this life.
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Online Fidelis von Sigmaringen

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Re: What's the problem with the Armybook?
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2012, 10:35:22 AM »
I am Catholic. Purgatory is the best I can hope for, in this and the next life.
It is not enough to have no ideas of your own; you must also be incapable of expressing them.
Sex, lies and manuscripts: The History of the Empire as Depicted in the Art of the Time (10/07/16)

Offline Joey_Boy

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Re: What's the problem with the Armybook?
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2012, 10:38:41 AM »
Overall the new book is solid.

I'm a bit sad that you cant really do proper mass-infantry army's. Sure you can do infantry based army's with DGR, wizard wagons, STank, Wizard, cannon, pegasii support. The options are too limited and all the infantry is over costed with 1p-2p depending on the unit. It's to much a reliance on gimmicky support units that look silly and for the players like me that want the Empire to be more of a low-fantasy army with steam-punk influences rather then a high-fantasy army with mystical beasts and magical wagons.

If I want high-fantasy I'll play my Elves. So in essence the problem is not really the power level of the army as a whole but rather the lack the classic empire feeling in the new book.       

Re: What's the problem with the Armybook?
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2012, 10:40:08 AM »
I love playing Empire because it's an army of me and you fighting against deamons, vampires and giant rat men. The more I add giant chickens and steam powered tanks the further it's gets away from that. (as an aside the mechanical horse is an abomination too far!)

The Empire has always relied on the strength of it's men with a little bit of support, it shouldn't be that the line troops are there to support the gimmicks...

Offline warhammerlord_soth

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Re: What's the problem with the Armybook?
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2012, 10:43:26 AM »
Throw in a couple of knights and your non gimmick unit goes a long way...



Have one  on Midaski's tab.  :::cheers:::
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Offline Hieronymus

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Re: What's the problem with the Armybook?
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2012, 10:43:49 AM »
I think we should have a Pandora's Box emoticon for exactly this type of thread. That said, I am pleasantly surprised by the responses so far.

In my experience, Wargamers can be very reactionary about any kind of change: search back in this forum, to the release of the new book, and you will find a well of bitter disappointment and anger; that said, once people have had a chance to get used to the changes, and discover what works and what can be salvaged, it will largely simmer down, and only the most rabid anti-GW agitators will keep repeating their broken record.

Bottom line, change is good for the game, it just takes us a little while to get over the fact we need to buy a whole load of new models, which are more expensive than we remember them being in the past!
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Offline rufus sparkfire

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Re: What's the problem with the Armybook?
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2012, 10:59:26 AM »
It's designed around characters boosting otherwise rubbish infantry units. That's the biggest flaw.

Oh, and it costs something like £27!
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Offline Shadespyre

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Re: What's the problem with the Armybook?
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2012, 11:50:31 AM »
It's designed around characters boosting otherwise rubbish infantry units. That's the biggest flaw.

Oh, and it costs something like £27!

Well, I think that's a criticism of Warhammer in general rather than just our book! ;)

I think ultimately it's hard to judge our army book until more of the core armies have been re-done for 8th edition. It does seem that the new army composition limits drive all armies towards the "hordes + wacky units" model, and HeroHammer has always been a feature of WHFB. Most army forums I look at claim their infantry are rubbish unless boosted by magic, if you want to field infantry on a par with Chosen of Tzeentch you have to play Chaos, which seems fair enough...

Offline csjarrat

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Re: What's the problem with the Armybook?
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2012, 11:50:35 AM »
some people are angry with the new book because it got rid of dual arch lector led lists generating +4DD, a lvl2 with rod of power saving PD to use as DD, unbreakable war altars and killed the undercosted mortar.

others are angry because new units were added; demigryphs being the main culprit here. these also tend to be the people who would rather have vertically challenged cooks flinging soup at their enemies, so i tend to ignore them :-)

some people are angry because GW broke flaggelants and made them crap, increased the cost of already expensive ranged units, increased the cost of basic infantry + greatswords (for which the need is a bit debatable imho), over-nerfed the mortar (most say drop strength OR increase points, not both) and nerfed the rocket battery.

basically, it all means that the army you field is smaller, and you have a smaller amount of useful units to draw that army from.
we're at a disadvantage to the old 7th ed books like dark elves that are massively undercosted, which makes tournament players a bit twitchy.

hth
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Offline Darknight

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Re: What's the problem with the Armybook?
« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2012, 12:15:40 PM »
Purgatory is the best I can hope for, in this and the next life.

Setting the bar surprisingly low there, Fidelis.
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Offline Siberius

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Re: What's the problem with the Armybook?
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2012, 12:21:54 PM »
There is actually nothing stopping someone doing an all infantry or mostly infantry army. It just isn't the best build and so people get in their heads that it should br avoided. Outside of tournament play, there is no real reason not to do it if that is what you enjoy.

I don't much fancy the demigryphs at the moment fluff wise so I just don't have any. I've been doing ok without them.
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Online Fidelis von Sigmaringen

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Re: What's the problem with the Armybook?
« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2012, 12:29:52 PM »
Setting the bar surprisingly low there, Fidelis.

Who says I am not aiming higher? Realistically, but for the Grace of God....
It is not enough to have no ideas of your own; you must also be incapable of expressing them.
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Offline rufus sparkfire

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Re: What's the problem with the Armybook?
« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2012, 12:32:25 PM »
Well, I think that's a criticism of Warhammer in general rather than just our book! ;)

Ha, possibly!

I'm not that keen on warhammer at the moment.
Hey, I could still beat up a woman!
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Offline zifnab0

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Re: What's the problem with the Armybook?
« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2012, 12:37:30 PM »
My biggest complaint with the armybook is the poor layout.  The fluffy sections on units should be ordered in a close approximation to the order in the army selection section.

Other complaints:

All state troops are overpriced by at least 1 point.

Mortars are virtually useless and overpriced.

Wizard wagons look horrible (not really a problem with the book)

Offline Wolfgang aus Wien

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Re: What's the problem with the Armybook?
« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2012, 12:49:49 PM »
As with virtually everything GW, the biggest issue is price. Double or triple of what it ought to be.
Warhammer has never been about basic troops or 'balanced' armies.
It's always been a game of characters, cheese and dice.

Offline Holy Hand Grenade

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Re: What's the problem with the Armybook?
« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2012, 12:56:13 PM »
Despite the huge dent in my wallet buying models after the release of the army book, I have had awesome fun.

Now if GW could just get off its butt and start releasing other army books to change them up too.
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Offline The Ol Perfesser

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Re: What's the problem with the Armybook?
« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2012, 03:11:26 PM »
Full Disclosure:  I have only played 5 or 6 games with the new AB.

However, I feel the new book is slightly better than the 7ed. book.
I mourn the loss of the mortar, but I am more than happy with the new rules for the HBVG.  I think the Steam Tank is great now, and you can still field lots of infantry.
I am really happy that the GoTE is now a much more viable choice for your army general (I was getting tired of all empire armies being led by ARch Lectors on WALTARS).
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Offline Darknight

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Re: What's the problem with the Armybook?
« Reply #20 on: November 26, 2012, 04:20:23 PM »
Setting the bar surprisingly low there, Fidelis.

Who says I am not aiming higher? Realistically, but for the Grace of God....

Indeed - but purgatory being "all one can hope for" is not only setting the bar low, but theologically inaccurate. If one achieves Purgatory, one will - ultimately - merit Heaven.
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Online Fidelis von Sigmaringen

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Re: What's the problem with the Armybook?
« Reply #21 on: November 26, 2012, 04:41:10 PM »
You seem to contradict yourself. If I hope for Purgatory and thus ultimately Heaven, how can I be setting the bar low?  :engel:
It is not enough to have no ideas of your own; you must also be incapable of expressing them.
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Offline commandant

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Re: What's the problem with the Armybook?
« Reply #22 on: November 26, 2012, 04:43:55 PM »
Because if purgatory is "all you can hope for" you are not hoping for Heaven

Offline Scalenex

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Re: What's the problem with the Armybook?
« Reply #23 on: November 26, 2012, 05:09:42 PM »

others are angry because new units were added; demigryphs being the main culprit here. these also tend to be the people who would rather have vertically challenged cooks flinging soup at their enemies, so i tend to ignore them :-)


I told the little guys it's wasteful to throw away good soup.  Heat up the chamber pots and launch those instead!  I guarantee you the survivors won't want to ever fight us again.
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Offline rufus sparkfire

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Re: What's the problem with the Armybook?
« Reply #24 on: November 26, 2012, 05:16:49 PM »
Soup-launching hobbits would have saved the book!
Hey, I could still beat up a woman!
If I wanted to.