Author Topic: Karl Franz led lists (Read 33850 times)

BBorN · « **on:** September 17, 2014, 01:00:44 PM »

So I have brought up this idea a few times on here and had a lot of great feedback. I thought I would provide my own feedback on how it has been working for me, and kindly ask for more of your helpful feedback. I should note I am not playing fluffy lists - my opponents go all out in their lists so I have done the same.

My lists have been from 2400-3000 points. Fought against demons woc skaven vampires orcs and empire. I bring typically the following general list :

Karl Franz
L4 heavens on horse
BSB on horse 1+/4+ and charmed shield
Sometimes a L1 heavens wizard with scroll

Core is a block of 12-14 IC knights and multiple other small 5 man knight units
Special is 2 units of 4 demigryph knights. Maybe a unit of pistoliers/outriders
Rare is double stank (3k I added a helblaster)

I have had great success with the list so far. More wins than losses to be sure and KF has slapped silly just about everything he touches. I love woc characters that think heir 3+ ward save and reroll 1s makes them unbeatable. Multiple occasions where they failed one roll and took 2-3 wounds. Very satisfying. My main objective is to get knights into the flank of large infantry units. Sometimes I get it big knight bus into the flanks sometimes I send them into the front since S4/5 doesn't scare me while I maneuver to get DGKs or stanks into their flanks. Many times I'll have DGKs in their front and knights to the side. Always challenge with KF against 1 wound infantry. Always. Very few characters out there scare me more than I scare them. 18" ld 10 is a godsend. Covers my whole army easily so things like spirit leech or the odd break test aren't issues anymore.

However even with the success. I feel like something is always missing to bring me to the next level. I can't put my finger on it. I welcome any thoughts you have to share on the subject.

mrth0msen · « **Reply #1 on:** September 18, 2014, 04:22:42 PM »

Quote from: BBorN on September 17, 2014, 01:00:44 PM

However even with the success. I feel like something is always missing to bring me to the next level. I can't put my finger on it. I welcome any thoughts you have to share on the subject.

You could reduce the two steam tank crutch to one and instead bring a captasus or two. The bring alot of utility to the table and fits your list well! You could also add in the odd outrider unit. They usually pull alot of attention and can hurt alot if left unattended.

Your current lists is kind of a one trick pony and this might add some flavour. I know I would get bored playing your current list. Also, in a fast list like yours, the hellblaster doesn't add much.

Just my 2 cent.

Jomppexx · « **Reply #2 on:** September 18, 2014, 04:50:00 PM »

Yes indeed. This is a mean army against "typical" armies with units of troops.
But if you went up against something like a dark elf fast cav/max flyers list you wouldn't get into combat ever and you'd get combo charged to the swamp. Probably need to add some flexibility and agility like thomsen pointed out.

BBorN · « **Reply #3 on:** September 21, 2014, 05:48:25 PM »

Thanks for the advice - I have never played against dark elves and only saw high elves once. I have no idea what to expect there. How will a single captasus help against dark elves?

Fandir Nightshade · « **Reply #4 on:** September 21, 2014, 06:08:02 PM »

Nothing helps against Dark Elves.

Rein · « **Reply #5 on:** September 21, 2014, 08:22:47 PM »

Quote from: Fandir Nightshade on September 21, 2014, 06:08:02 PM

Nothing helps against Dark Elves.

unfortunately I have to agree

emcdunna · « **Reply #6 on:** September 22, 2014, 02:37:53 PM »

With end times we get 50% lords. This means one amazing thing: we can take balthasar Gelt and Karl Franz at the same time.

I want to play this so badly! Also, while we're at it, why not take Ludwig too for the 18" bsb rule. And you put him and Karl in a unit, they get that weird rule where Ludwig can give Karl look out sir in close combat.

Anyone else want to try this? Stick em in a unit of 10+ reiksguard in the middle of the lines and say bring it

Jomppexx · « **Reply #7 on:** September 23, 2014, 06:15:05 AM »

Quote from: emcdunna on September 22, 2014, 02:37:53 PM

With end times we get 50% lords. This means one amazing thing: we can take balthasar Gelt and Karl Franz at the same time.

I want to play this so badly! Also, while we're at it, why not take Ludwig too for the 18" bsb rule. And you put him and Karl in a unit, they get that weird rule where Ludwig can give Karl look out sir in close combat.

Anyone else want to try this? Stick em in a unit of 10+ reiksguard in the middle of the lines and say bring it

And have a T test spell cast on them and see them all die in one turn.

Fandir Nightshade · « **Reply #8 on:** September 23, 2014, 06:27:58 AM »

Only half of them....but sadly with Franz among them.

emcdunna · « **Reply #9 on:** September 23, 2014, 04:30:04 PM »

i know its fluffy, besides im talking about them going against nagash only which means that they likely wouldnt have much T test stuff to kill you with.

plus you got gelt running around blowing stuff up! imagine if you turned nagash into gold? haha

Fandir Nightshade · « **Reply #10 on:** September 23, 2014, 06:48:56 PM »

Incredibly funny as the low ld undead around would have to test for stupidity

emcdunna · « **Reply #11 on:** September 23, 2014, 07:34:43 PM »

they are immune to psychology so they ignore panic tests and stupidity tests and frenzy checks and any test like that. they literally never take an ld test except for spell damage based of ld.

Fidelis von Sigmaringen · « **Reply #12 on:** September 23, 2014, 07:43:28 PM »

Incorrect.

BRB p. 71:
If the majority of the models in a unit have the Immune to Psychology rule, the unit automatically passes all Panic, Fear and Terror tests it has to take. It should be noted that they have to take Break tests (and other Leadership tests) normally — being stoic does not necessarily make a warrior entirely heedless of mortal danger.

Note also BRB p. 70:
To represent their fighting fury and lack of self-preservation instincts, Frenzied troops have the Extra Attack and Immune to Psychology special rules.

Fandir Nightshade · « **Reply #13 on:** September 23, 2014, 07:46:50 PM »

Yes this edition Undead can be stupid......and hating as we all know.

emcdunna · « **Reply #14 on:** September 23, 2014, 07:58:27 PM »

ohhh sorry, so undead can: fail frenzy checks (duh), fail stupidity checks, and get hatred? interesting.

too bad ItP doesnt protect you from stupidity, thatd be helpful.

Fidelis von Sigmaringen · « **Reply #15 on:** September 23, 2014, 08:13:18 PM »

Most of the undead should in fact always suffer from Stupidity - they have no brain.

psychichobo · « **Reply #16 on:** September 23, 2014, 09:29:05 PM »

It's actually been a rather painful lesson for my Tomb King friend. Ramhotep the Visionary was the Golden Boy of the army for a while, for giving armour re-rolls to a random construct unit and for giving his unit Frenzy as well as Hatred.

Since Undead rarely bother with a BSB, that Frenzy's cost him quite a number of times.

emcdunna · « **Reply #17 on:** September 23, 2014, 09:35:21 PM »

so an undead BSB is literally only used for stupidity checks and frenzy checks?

Fandir Nightshade · « **Reply #18 on:** September 23, 2014, 09:36:43 PM »

No you also have less crumbly crumb around.

emcdunna · « **Reply #19 on:** September 23, 2014, 09:45:43 PM »

hahaha crumbly crumb...

PeytonS · « **Reply #20 on:** September 24, 2014, 02:44:47 AM »

Quote from: emcdunna on September 23, 2014, 09:35:21 PM

so an undead BSB is literally only used for stupidity checks and frenzy checks?

Swift reforms, restraining pursuit, redirecting...everything but panic and break checks.

emcdunna · « **Reply #21 on:** September 24, 2014, 02:55:23 AM »

and fear and terror. but yeah. oh well.

karl franz with an 18" ld 10 bubble would be epic. i want to use him so bad. only downside is not having ASF so if you face a vampire or an elf you might be worried.

Fandir Nightshade · « **Reply #22 on:** September 24, 2014, 04:40:41 AM »

Supplement him with two level 2 light mages and a cheap bsb and you can make him work at 2500 points. Put him on a horse and into a unit of 10 cheap vanilla knights. He doesnt need elite reiksguard to babysit him.

BBorN · « **Reply #23 on:** September 24, 2014, 04:39:53 PM »

No vampire or elf would want to go toe to toe with KF. One wound gets through and they could be dead. That's pretty high risk.

emcdunna · « **Reply #24 on:** September 24, 2014, 05:06:05 PM »

plus vamp lord costs more than karl. and if he dies you probably crumble.

im just saying you use karl to kill characters, monsters whatever, and when you face ASF characters you just gotta irresistable force birona's timewarp and boom now they probably take 3 hits that they have to save or they die (d3 wounds each)

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Author Topic: Karl Franz led lists (Read 33850 times)