Topic: Starting Themed Army (War of 1812)

[Xinithorp]

Something I've wanted to do for a long time is start a Warhammer (or 40K) army based around the British Infantry in the war of 1812.
Basically everyone needs a musket, I'd have a few cannons and maybe some cavalry.

I'd like to use Empire, but I'm not sure if it's possible to have an army built this way. I would probably do something with lots of Empire Handgunners. Lots.

Now, I'd be faced with have to get rid of the total puffiness of Empire uniforms and would probably be left with a whole lot of modelling. I'm not sure if it would be modelling I'd be prepared to do a whole lot. So I'm wondering about alternative models. These alternatives must still be GW models, however, as I'd be using this in GW stores and as far as I know they don't allow non-GW (for Forge World) models unless they're scratch built. And even then it might be a little restricted.

Here are a few pictures of what I'd be aiming for:






And as you can see, the poofy uniforms don't really fit:


Now, to drive home the War of 1812 theme, I could have a regiment or two of Voyageurs standing in for Militia.

For wizards I could use Brettionian Pilgrims as Jesuit Priests.

Any suggestions for how I might go about building this army? Particularily the models. The less modelling and money required, the better.


And for more info on the War of 1812, go here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_1812


Thanks for your help!

[towishimp]

Are you sure Warhammer is the game for you?  I'm not saying it won't work, but you've got a number of things going against you here.  As you said, modelling is going to be a bear if you want to "get rid of" the poofiness that is the Empire.  Maybe one of the more experienced modellers can help out, but I have no idea how you could do this.  Secondly, an army that is basically (or actually?) completely made up of handgunners is going to be very vulnrable to fast armies and IMO not very fun to play.  You also might get accused of being cheesy a lot...but that's not your problem, it's theirs (but it's still something to consider).  Lastly, I think (and others agree) that the best part of the Empire is its variety.  By limiting yourself, you won't get to play with some of the cool pieces.

But all that said, I don't mean to be Captain Bringdown.  It's not my place to tell others what to play with or what theme to use.  If, in spite of the downsides I listed, still want to do it, I say go for it.  The people on this forum are great and will undoubtedly help you out however they can.  Good luck!

[Midaski]

I've made extensive use of all sorts of 'human' plastic sprues, and I think you are going to have a hell of a job.

Any legs will need extensive work, as most have frilly bits or tight breeches, or are too baggy with pockets like on the catachan sprues.

As for the jackets and tails again I cannot think of a part or parts combination that will get close.
The Militia torso with the coat tails is splayed, and very difficult to rank up - I've ended up using them for huntsmen/archers.

If you stick to 'true' GW it'll be a model by model job.

[Xinithorp]

Well, I'm going to get my hands on a detachment box (I notice there aren't any specific hand gunner boxes. Ya gotta buy 'em with the spearmen.   ) and I'll see how complicated they are. If I find they're too hard to model 50 or so times, I'll try and figure something else out or even ditch the idea.
But for the moment it looks like all I'd require would be some slicing/filing and a greenstuff shako (hat), and a bit of green stuff to fix things up a bit.

I still have to get my hands on an Empire book (the most important part!) but I'll see what I can work out.

But as it looks I'll certainly have a decent amount of variety.
Voyageurs (Militia)
Infantrymen (Handgunners)
Mounted Musket guys (Pistoliers)
Cannons!
Priests/Monks (Wizards)
Shawnee Tribesmen (Huntsmen)

Maybe not as full of variety as some of the armies I've seen, but it's not entirely one sided. Lot of shooting though.

[towishimp]

Well, if you're dead-set on this, I might offer some advice.

It is a pain to have to buy spearmen with handgunners...even those of us who play more standard Empire armies usually have more spearmen than we'll ever use laying around (same goes for handgunners, although often to a lesser extent).  Which brings me to my next point -- you might check out ebay for handgunners.  There are usually a fair number of them listed.  

You definitely have your work cut out for you.  I'm curious as to how it goes, though, so keep me posted, if you don't mind.

[Xinithorp]

you might check out ebay for handgunners.  There are usually a fair number of them listed.

Well, I actually just won a detachment box for about half the regular retail price. Maybe if I develop this I'll see about getting any old hand gunner that pops up. But for now it would be easier to work with something untouched.


I'll have to get the Army Book so I can make an actual list, but as it's sitting right now how do you think this army could fare?

[Calvin]

For a bit more variety you could have swordsmen or spearmen represent infantry on the charge with bayonets.

Keep us posted on this, I’m not a big expert on the war of 1812 but I’ve always found it interesting. And I love going to fort York and checking stuff out there.

[armlessfred]

Its a great idea, u should model handgunns into spearmens hands but give them bayonets and form them in a square, have models representing ensigns/ lieutenants in the units ect. Make a few trials and post the picks...its an interesting concept and i dont think the esteemed TVI has taken a knock at it.good luck.

[imperialforge]

You are in the wrong branch of the hobby.  The war of 1812 has nothing to do with figures based in 16th century, nor with the Warhammer universe.  Not historically, not militarily, not esthetically. Why not play the war of 1812 using... the war of 1812 figures and the rules designed for it specifically?  Even disregarding all of the above, I don't see how you can convert the existing plastics or whether it is worth this effort, considering that your plan totally negates the variety available to the Empire.

[Calvin]

It’s a viable idea IMO if you can find an effective way to make the models. Just because he wants to play a 1812 themed army doesn’t mean he has to give up warhammer.
Although I’m looking at this from a modeling and “person-interested-in-the-war-of-1812 perspective” and less of an “empire” theme one. I imagine it is more the opposite for you.

[Jon23516]

I definately see Warhammer Historicals in your future.

1812 miniatures ready-made.

Good luck.

Jon

[towishimp]

Are you sure Warhammer is the game for you?

That's what I meant, just not expressed as clearly.  There are plenty of rulesets designed for the War of 1812.  I don't know why you'd go through all the trouble converting Empire models.

Also, you asked about your list's combat effectiveness?  Not very high.  Free companies tend to fight poorly on their own (although we all love them as detachments) and the same goes for handgunners.  You'd end up with a "gunline," which isn't very effective against many lists and isn't very interesting given the variety the Empire army lists give a player.

[Xinithorp]

You are in the wrong branch of the hobby.  The war of 1812 has nothing to do with figures based in 16th century, nor with the Warhammer universe.  Not historically, not militarily, not esthetically.

So what? I saw a mini feature on a WWI themed Imperial Guard army in White Dwarf a little while back.
If I were looking at doing a Vietnam themed army in Fantasy, well, that wouldn't really work. But the fighting style back then was really quite similar to that of the actual gameplay of Warhammer. Regiments, cannons and such.
I read somewhere that basically two opposing forces would line up across from eachother and shoot eachother in an agreed upon manner.



I wanna play Warhammer and the only place that I really know of is Games Workshop. In order to play there, they need to be Games Workshop models. Nuff said.


I don't know any Historical places nor is there an apparently decently sized community. What appears to be the official website looks like something anybody hastily put up.

Aaand, when you play historical, everyone's seen a British Napoleonic era force. I haven't yet seen a Warhammer army themed this way. There probably is. It's about time for another.

Just a short while until I get that box of handgunners and then I'll find out if it's really that hard. I can find other ways.

I just finished converting my sixth bike for my Space Marine biker army (check out the progress here)and I've got to say that this looks pretty easy. Meticulous, but easy.

At the moment it looks like what I have to do is file off the poofy bits (where applicable), fill any necessary spaces with green stuff, add little tails and finally make shakos.

Voyageurs are even easier. Just pretty much leave them as is, making the odd headwear change.



I'm looking at this not so much as an Empire army but rather my own army with Empire rules. These aren't your standard guys from Ostland.
But the way I see it is that I have a certain set of guidelines to follow and then from there I can do just about anything.
And if it gets really sticky I can add lots of spearmen and call them handgunners who've run out of ammo.


But just picture it:
"In this corner: A slithering Slaanesh army!
Aaaaaaand in this corner, their challenger is...The British Army!"

And I love going to fort York and checking stuff out there.

I "worked" there one summer as a drummer. Maaaan those uniforms are not fun to wear.

[rufus sparkfire]

I think this is an excellent idea, gunline/out-of-fluffness notwithstanding. It's always nice to see something different.


I really hate the detachment box - it's such a rip off! I can't believe they used to sell those sprues for £2 each, and now they want £6!


Anyway, have you seen this army:

http://gt.us.games-workshop.com/Results_Coverage/Baltimore/WFB/Adam_Clark/armygallery.htm

Something along similar lines to your idea, though not quite the same period.

[Clarkarias]

Oh great...Adam Clark has an Empire army...sigh....

And welcome Xini, long time no see.  Did you put your Lizards away?

If you can combine the militia box with handgunners (there are a few guns on the sprues) you can get something that looks closer to British troops.  I may have a few extra milita handguns lying around...and definitly have a few blunderbusses you can chop up.

[rufus sparkfire]

Oh great...Adam Clark has an Empire army...sigh....

Who's Adam Clark then? Someone you know personally? Why the dismay?

[Clarkarias]

I've met him in a local GW store.  He has some of the most beautiful armies I've ever seen.  His "Chaos Dwarf" army using dwarf rules (with the casket of souls as an anvil, and death rockets as BTs) is just outstanding.

When I see a well painted/converted army it usually inspires me to get going myself...his stuff just makes me think "I'll never be that good..."

[Xinithorp]

Ooooooh right! That's who that guy is. I knew I recognized him from somewhere.
Yeah, it's a really sweet dwarf army.

I like that Empire army. An he kept the poofiness! Certainly gives me an idea what to aim for.


The uniforms didn't really change much between the American Rev and the War of 1812. Mainly just their choice of headwear.

I don't think tricorn hats weigh your head down as much as a shako. Probably more comfortable too.
I wonder why they changed.

[Border Prince]

Definitely take spearmen. Maybe spearmen with handgunner detachments to end up with an almost 1:1 ratio. That way, you get the shooting, but also represent the use of bayonets (as noted above). To use the theme to take an army solely of handguns misses some of the style of war of the period, as GW handgun rules cannot fight up close, unlike those with bayonets.

[K2]

Have you ever thought of the praetorian figs for Imperial Guard? Their uniforms look very British. I think you can still order them through GW, but that could be a bit of trouble, due to the fact that they have not made those models in a looong time.
That being said it might be too expensive  

Good Luck!

[xnet445]

I've seen (on the web, somewhere) an Empire army done using the Praetorians, and it was gorgeous  :ohmyy: . Only problem is that the Praetorians  are Zulu Dawn/Roarks Drift era British Army, not 1812, Wellington and all that.

[Midaski]

There was a problem with some of the Mordians, mortar crew I think, but the Praetorians are there available on the UK website classics.

There are also loads in my loft.

[Donnachaidh]

Have you checked out Flintloque?  Napoleonic fantasy - nice game system as well.

The British are Orcs (to much similarity between Napoleonic redcoats and Orcs), the Elves are French, Undead are Russian, Dark elves Spanish, Gobos are Portuguese, Dwarves are Prussian and so on a so forth.

The figures are no where near the quality of GW's castings, but they are characterfull, and they do paint up nicely.

Uniform wise - the 1763 (Rev War) and 1812 uniform differs greatly - hats non withstanding (and by the way, the shako is almost as light as a cocked hat, but offers better protection from sabre cuts believe it or not)

the 1812 coat is waist length with short tails and it is only single breasted as opposed to the double breasted only closed at the throat coat of 1763.  Also trousers (overalls) were used instead of knee breeches.

Good luck with the converting - I for one would love to see the end results...!  

If you do think about buying straight figures,
Front Rank are pretty close size wise.


Emsdorf and Victory,
Andy

[Xinithorp]

Well, the models came in from ebay and I tried a conversion to see how it would go. Check it:




The puffs weren't too difficult to slice off. The shako isn't too hard to make, but it's a bit fiddly and time consuming. I could easily do this a few times, but do I want to do it 50+ times?

Comments appreciated.

[Hagen_von_Loewenstein]

His "Chaos Dwarf" army using dwarf rules (with the casket of souls as an anvil, and death rockets as BTs) is just outstanding.

You DO of course realise that thís means "pictures, mate"... and LOTS that is...  

@ topic: I dunno.... I think Adam clark achieved as much as there IS to achieve... by completely filing off ALL the "puffyness" et. you just get very blunt looking miniatures without much detail. I don't really think it'll be worth the effort, sorry...