Topic: Knights of the White Wolf vs Reiksguard et.al.

[Jimmy Invictus]

And what I mean by that is discuss the differences in shield&lance armed knights vs great weapon armed knights. (and I'm talking the tactical differences/uses between the two not 'one has a slightly better save and the other gets Str 5 attacks every round;-) ). Is one group better suited than the other for certain battlfield roles? It would seem on the surface that KotWW would be better at taking on tougher units, i.e. Units that probably won't break under a lance charge...(I'm asking because GW's stellar cust serv sent me a whole knightly orders boxed set bc I called them after i discovered I was missing two horses from my Empire army box...I dunno about certain games designers *cough* but GW cust serv is top notch; anyway, the free knight arrived today with High Elf Shields instead of Imperial ones so it looks like I have a unit if KotWW now even though I hadn't planned on having Ulricans in my army! I guess they show up when they want and where they want, even in my Altdorf themed army!

Oh yeah, and Thorek is cheesy.

[Amulus]

lances all the way!  That 1+ makes all the difference, it makes them immune to spells like 2d6 str 4 hits.  That one plus makes them so damn durable it is awesome.  Plus it means you will keep your rank negating bonuses longer then the 2+ variety of knights.  I don't really use my knights as killers, mostly as rank negators, so keeping them alive is paramount to taking away those ranks.  But as for tactics for great weapon knights, i have no idea, as I think they got nerfed so badly i refuse to use them, BRING BACK THE CAVALRY HAMMER! (i cry that to the gods every morning when i wake up)

[Jimmy Invictus]

I'm almost afraid to ask (Orwell was right about Ignorance) since I've been out of WH since fifth ed., but what did cavalry hammers do? (I almost dont wanna know and it occurs to me that I could probably order a shield sprue...but I kind of liked the idea of some Ulricans showing up to crash my Altdorf army:-)

[Dendo Star]

Well, hold on now.  Making an IC Knight unit with Great Weapons sounds like madness - until you add Hatred and The War Banner.  Put a Warrior Priest, Luthor Huss (personal fave) or even an Arch Lector in a unit of as little as 5 GW IC Knights plus full command and the War Banner and watch your opponent poop himself.  Constant S5 plus a 2+ Armour Save, +2 Static Combat Res and possible other goodies (Immune to Fear from the Icon or Huss, Huss's 4+ Ward Save for challenges, etc) is mighty slick.

Warlord "discovered" this practice first as far as I know.  I applied it soon after with grand success.  We did it before TVI made it cool.

Also, Calvary Hammers were a kinda Great Weapon/Lance hybrid.  Required two hands to use, but gave +2 Strength on the charge and +1 Strength on rounds of combat thereafter.

[kk14]

The great part is, it's just as funny when you take the charge as dish it.  Not many hammers can claim that.

[Jimmy Invictus]

Well, hold on now.  Making an IC Knight unit with Great Weapons sounds like madness - until you add Hatred and The War Banner.  Put a Warrior Priest, Luthor Huss (personal fave) or even an Arch Lector in a unit of as little as 5 GW IC Knights plus full command and the War Banner and watch your opponent poop himself.

Stand back people! Dendo is spouting wicked cool advice again! (starts writing this shit down...)

[Dendo Star]

Discovered by Warlord man, discovered by Warlord...

[Mathi Alfblut]

Still wicked cool advice, mind you!

[Amulus]

damn, ok, i concede, maybe that may work better that my beautiful shield and lance....maybe for my upcoming tournament....

[ChumpChange]

...hmmm,
I don't know about anybody "discovering" this combo...but I have used Huss leading IC, great weapon wielding, warbanner having knights with with great success.
If you can find the room for an extra special slot in your army you should at least give this unit a try. I have had them destroy Shaggoths, decimate Orc units, and crush charging undead black knights. The only real time I had a problem with them was when I charged a fully ranked up unit of dwarves led by a BSB equipped with the warbanner. THis unit broke my knights, but they got away and managed to get a flank charge later on.
Remember...if you take Huss in this unit, he causes fear so he and the unit he leads are immune to the effects...this is pretty handy.

However, Vanilla knights are great for all kinds of battlefield roles. I almost never build an army without at least one of these units. They are particularly useful for negating ranks (this is where the high movement and 1+ save comes in really handy) and protecting your flanks.

Morghor (sp) Master of Skulls is also cheesy.

[JohnnyAngel77]

Well, hold on now.  Making an IC Knight unit with Great Weapons sounds like madness - until you add Hatred and The War Banner.  Put a Warrior Priest, Luthor Huss (personal fave) or even an Arch Lector in a unit of as little as 5 GW IC Knights plus full command and the War Banner and watch your opponent poop himself. 

Thats how I do it. Works out freakin great. Lance and Shield are great if you think you can break your opponent on the charge, otherwise I love GW and the setup listed above. 

[Crimsonsphinx]

Honestly this GW plus hatred combo is doomed to fail.  Why you might ask.

Its simple.  The hatred is not eternal unless im mistaken, meaning it only works in the first round, so you might as well have lances which work better in the first round.

IC WW are kick ass troops vs undead, unbreakable stuff, and things that are strength 3 but hard to break.  Dwarfs come to mind there.  Lance armed knights work better vs most lightly armoured foes.

[Jimmy Invictus]

damn, ok, i concede, maybe that may work better that my beautiful shield and lance....maybe for my upcoming tournament....

Not at all Brutha! I have had great success with my 1+ save, lance armed knights thus far in my brief Empire career-but with getting High Elf shields in the box (now that might look interesting if i file off the HE iconography...kinda like Norman kite shields...hmmm) but I started considering a unit of WW /only/ because of the shield snafu: I never actually like them much, which is why I asked the question-I had no idea about their effectiveness on the battlefield. Since I have eight more knights on the way, I may make these into WW anyway, and experiment with them. We'll see how Ulric favours me...

[David22]

People, People dont forget the special slot they will use. Great weapons on knights are indeed only usefull if they are Inner circle. But then, they are special, and then you have to drop something "special" in your list (kinna like that one  ). And again, you have to have that priest w/icon or luthor. Imagine that 180 pts +150 points priest failing to attack when they are needed becaus ethey failed there leadership test vs cause fearing enemies. Almost forgot the warbanner...

So to resume, if you take great weapons, you have to take a whole lot of stuff along with them to make em worth while. So in my book its either a 123pts nillas + musician (1+ save) or that super combo at 400 pts total. NO in betweens.

[Dendo Star]

People, People dont forget the special slot they will use. Great weapons on knights are indeed only usefull if they are Inner circle. But then, they are special, and then you have to drop something "special" in your list (kinna like that one  ). And again, you have to have that priest w/icon or luthor. Imagine that 180 pts +150 points priest failing to attack when they are needed becaus ethey failed there leadership test vs cause fearing enemies. Almost forgot the warbanner...

So to resume, if you take great weapons, you have to take a whole lot of stuff along with them to make em worth while. So in my book its either a 123pts nillas + musician (1+ save) or that super combo at 400 pts total. NO in betweens.

Ah, said perfectly.