Topic: The Grand Master doesn't seem... bad?

[HERO]

For 259 points, you can have a Grand Master with Runefang and a OTS, with Shield and a 1+ save.
He also gives the unit of Knights you join ITP.

He has WS6, I6 and 4 attacks.  Is it me or is that.. not bad for the points?

[Dbunibe]

For 259 points, you can have a Grand Master with Runefang and a OTS, with Shield and a 1+ save.
He also gives the unit of Knights you join ITP.

He has WS6, I6 and 4 attacks.  Is it me or is that.. not bad for the points?

yeah not bad.  too bad our WP cant give him hatred so he becomes pretty darn good.

[rothgar13]

If you're set on giving him Hatred, the War Altar works.

I must admit I have a bit of a soft spot for this build, and I'm looking to make a list that maximizes his talents.

[saw516]

I keep looking at this build too, ive been waiting till i get some more knights and some chickens so I can make a cav list but im getting more and more tempted to just stick him with a block of 9 i c knights in another list just to try it out.

[Minsc]

He's good with that specific build.
Give him any other items and he's very overpriced compared to any other fighty-lord in the game.

[Clymer]

If you're set on giving him Hatred, the War Altar works.

Whoa... I hadn't noticed. Good call out. Not to derail the thread but... It says all units within 6 inches. Would the character himself have to be inside 6" or just the unit that the character is with?

Ok, back on topic... That looks like a fun and useful build. I for one shy away from characters going too far above 200 points though. Put that guy in a unit and they become a very juicy target for the unit deleting spells. Just a play style though and I'm sure others will have success other ways. In a larger game (3000+) I could see that being a fun build, but there are so many other tempting choices...

[commandant]

couldn't you just give him a runefang, dawnstone and shield for a 1++ save?

[Minsc]

couldn't you just give him a runefang, dawnstone and shield for a 1++ save?

Sure, if he would've had a 110 pts magic allowance.

[commandant]

I thought the dawnstone was 15 points?   Is it 25?

[rothgar13]

Yep.

And I wouldn't consider him all that overpriced (though he's definitely not cheap). Remember that his price includes quite a bit of mundane gear (Full Plate + Barded Warhorse), and the ItP for his unit.

[GenOmar]

cost him 10 pts to lose the "T" in his title...and must pull gear from the armorory-at a cost. aarrgghh!

[dalezzz]

hes a bit overpriced for me , black orc warlord is about 20? cheaper now and guess who wins that fight?  I doubt youll see a GM without a runefang ,wich is fine because his points increase is paying for that runefang , imo anyway
Runefang IS worth 100 points just not for our generals because they are so weedy (who should be the ones wielding them) so make the weapon cheaper an the GM more expensive seems like a workable solution , just goes kinda wrong if you want to equip him with anything else :p

[Minsc]

I noticed that the TGM's basecost only increased by 10 pts (and not the rumoured 20 pts that everyone kept shouting about).

Ofcourse, if you buy a lance+shield for him, is hvanillacost went up by 21 pts, but who buys a lance for him anyway?

Honestly I wouldn't give a damn if they increased his basecost by 30-40 pts either, he's one of the coolest things we have in our armybook, and I used him very often in our old book (with Sword of Power, Crown of Command, Dawnstone), and I sure will field him even more now, when he got a even deadlier build, and since it's fluffy to bring him in all-cav lists, something that's very viable now.

[Fandir Nightshade]

I think his Initiative of 6 puts him in a good place too, the orcboss encounter with the runefang most likely would mean the end of the orc...not of the grandmaster.

[Fidelis von Sigmaringen]

I think his Initiative of 6 puts him in a good place too, the orcboss encounter with the runefang most likely would mean the end of the orc...not of the grandmaster.

Depends: if it just a one/one: how about an Black Orc War Boss on boar, with the Sword of Swift Slaying and the Talisman of Preservation? That is 254 pts. ASF WS7 S5 (S6 first round) T5 4A and a 4+ ward save.

[Fandir Nightshade]

Ok vs Grandmaster with the Runefang and other tricksters shard black orc strikes first but gets no re rolls.

2-3 wounds 1-1,5 wounds

grand master 2 hits 1-2 wounds

next round only wounding on 3+ with a 3+ armour left 1 wound if the GM is on average chances are about half half who goes out living and more often the orc guy would have the hero slaying sword so he has to eat 8 attacks first.

[Minsc]

Round 1:
Warboss - 4 attacks, 2,66 hits, 2,22 wounds, 1,11 ~ 1 wound.
TGM: 4 attacks, 2 hits, 1,5 wounds (let's say 1 wound)

Round 2:
Warboss - 4 attacks, 2,66 hits, 1,77 wounds, 0,59 ~ 0,5 wounds. At least 1 wound left on the TGM.
TGM 4 attacks, 2 hits, 1,5 wounds (lets say 2 wounds this time) - Warboss dead.

So yeah...next challenge! 

[Fidelis von Sigmaringen]

Ok vs Grandmaster with the Runefang and other tricksters shard black orc strikes first but gets no re rolls.

2-3 wounds 1-1,5 wounds

grand master 2 hits 1-2 wounds

next round only wounding on 3+ with a 3+ armour left 1 wound if the GM is on average chances are about half half who goes out living and more often the orc guy would have the hero slaying sword so he has to eat 8 attacks first.

Well, the set-up would be specifically for the TGM. One could add the Glittering Scales (there were still 30 pts magic items to spare). That would seem to tip the balance.

[Fandir Nightshade]

But no decent warboss rides around with one of those  the Gm is an okish choice with the runefang...not great but okish.

[Fidelis von Sigmaringen]

I certainly agree with that. That is precisely why I fear we still will not see the TGM that much.

[Fandir Nightshade]

Nor the General...other choices still better.

That is Master Mage and Al.

[Minsc]

The AL is still only "good" if mounted on the Waraltar.
In the previous lists, you could see them on foot (heck, I fielded one on foot on more than one occasion), but not now.
A Lvl4 will still be the main lord for most I bet, especially since they became cheaper.

Personally, I think that either a General on Gryphon, or a TGM with Runefang or a AL on Waraltar (because I have a conversion I love) will be my Generals in  the days to come. The Lvl4 is the obvious nobrainer, hence why I don't like them.

Well, the set-up would be specifically for the TGM. One could add the Glittering Scales (there were still 30 pts magic items to spare). That would seem to tip the balance.

But a TGM with a Runefang/tOTS is a allcommers build. The Blackorc Warboss with Glittering Scales would be tailored specificly to beat a TGM, hence why it's not a good comparison.

[Fandir Nightshade]

Arch Lector on foot , Armour of meteoric iron, greatweapon 155 points done. Grants hatred and ld9 to the unit and the detachments also grants the prayers and channeling. I think this is good if not even very good.

[Minsc]

Arch Lector on foot , Armour of meteoric iron, greatweapon 155 points done. Grants hatred and ld9 to the unit and the detachments also grants the prayers and channeling. I think this is good if not even very good.

Yeah, cheap and simple. The problem I see here is that you can also take a regular Warrior Priest with AoMI and GW and save some points but still get the same effect, while not 'wasting' any points in Lord-selections.
Ofcourse, if you dont have a TGM/General in your list you might want to opt for the AL for the +1Ld, but otherwise I can see the WP filling the same role.

[Fandir Nightshade]

2 wounds < 3 wounds and leadership+1 for only 35 points more

Also I have more problems with my hero choices as it gets quiet crowded there